For those interested, this video also offer good power break technique advice:
I'd like to discuss cue acceleration
- Thread starter nataddrho
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For those interested, this video also offer good power break technique advice:
This is good. I have been working more on pool recently and have noticed similar working on my preshot routine and in stroke drills. But I didn't think of it as timing specifically. Just noticed better ball pocketing and sometimes better cue ball response/action. I also know yesterday in my break practice I was not doing this.
dquarasr
Registered
(Disclaimer: I am a lowly APA SL6 in 8, 5 in 9.)
I understood timing to be where the acceleration of the cue was such that it reaches max velocity right at CB contact. I have tried (and mostly failed, especially in pressure situations, but that’s a topic for another day) to hit every shot regardless of speed with this definition of timing.
On breaks, I tried maximum speed of the cue where I could control accuracy. (No body movement; I’m not good enough yet to add body movement.) I’d consistently be in the rather weak range of 14.5-15.5 MPH.
Changing nothing else, I changed focus from maximum cue speed to smooth acceleration of the cue. Immediately speed increased to 16-18 MPH, with as much or better accuracy.
For whatever that’s worth…..
You are talking about mechanics- not timing. stroke mechanics govern the speed of your stroke, the very best stroke mechanics will level everything out to where it should be and at the correct time. To me, timing in pool has much more to do with making the shot than anything else.
So many inconsistent shot makers are just "looking" at the OB contact point- we need to do more than just "look"--- ALL the pros have EXTREME focus on the correct ( close to 100% of the time as possible) OB contact point- EXTREME FOCUS - LOCKED- and then release the final cue forward motion at that time- TIMING!
In 2006, Patrick Scott Smith wrote a book " The ONE MINUTE Guide to playing better pool" - he nails this one point- that is the only real lesson in his very small book and I believe that he is entirely correct. The book is almost impossible to find- I consider it the Bible of consistent shot making.
I agree with the eye being part of timing if you choose to use it like that. I have long favored the quiet eye. When I speak of stroke timing I am including all of the parts of the stroke and having them move together perfectly. I haven't given the comparison much thought but I would say the pool stroke isn't unlike the false casting and cast of a fly rod. Out of time trying to fly fish is a disaster. With everything in time you never look back to see what the line is doing, you know. Then you release the cast with no doubt of where the fly is going within inches.
The pause in the final transition was mentioned. This is something I am in two minds about. Sometimes when I need a soft shot with a lot of touch a pause creeps into my stroke. It is something unplanned that my body and unconscious chooses to do. I accept it and don't worry about it. The pause on every shot, particularly longer pauses, seem to me to create a certain disconnect between the warm up strokes and the final stroke. I prefer a smooth transition, a very reduced version of the elliptical stroke some use to great effect.
Some sports it can be said, "this is right" and "this is wrong". Pool seems much more free flowing and sometimes it comes down to whatever gets you through the night.
Hu
The pause in the final transition was mentioned. This is something I am in two minds about. Sometimes when I need a soft shot with a lot of touch a pause creeps into my stroke. It is something unplanned that my body and unconscious chooses to do. I accept it and don't worry about it. The pause on every shot, particularly longer pauses, seem to me to create a certain disconnect between the warm up strokes and the final stroke. I prefer a smooth transition, a very reduced version of the elliptical stroke some use to great effect.
Some sports it can be said, "this is right" and "this is wrong". Pool seems much more free flowing and sometimes it comes down to whatever gets you through the night.
Hu
For those interested, good info and videos dealing with eye-pattern and stroke-timing "best practices" can be found here:
When I wanted to hit my break shot harder, I felt that putting the cue ball further away from my (rail) bridge allowed me to hit the CB harder. I don't think I ever applied "longer bridge equals more cue stick speed" to "regular" strokes. I first read about using bridge length for different speed shots when I read Mark Wilson's book "Play Great Pool", and I have been using that methodology ever since. For high speed shots, I have settled on the mantra, "I can only use this much acceleration and still feel like I am stroking the CB smoothly. If the shot needs more speed, then the shot is not in my repertoire." I have also set a maximum bridge length for those high speed shots. I practice my swing with my maximum bridge length and with my maximum, smooth feeling acceleration. Mark Wilson suggests that you practice going beyond your comfort zone and crush some balls in an attempt to raise the limit of what you can still do smoothly. I think that might entail practicing with an even longer maximum bridge length, or sticking with a maximum bridge length and practicing swinging even faster.
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That's an odd handicap distribution, almost max in 8 ball 86% of max, but at about the 55% level in 9 ball. Should be more like a 7 in 9 ball. I don't know anyone with that much of a difference in level between the two games.
He could have stopped playing 9ball years ago when he was a 5/5.
dquarasr
Registered
No, I’m a newly-minted 6 in 8. I suspect I am on the cusp of a 6 in 9 as I played pretty well my last few 9 matches.
It’s gonna stay this way for at least another session, though, because I switched over to a BCA straight pool league, first match next week. Neva played str8 in league. Should be fun learning a new game.
Can't say how many times I've seen "timing" in print. Gotta agree timing is a function of the mechanics; not the shooter.
I don't think I agree with this timing thought. To me (and I think the majority of others) it's the exact point of time when the stroke happens and hits the cueball along with the follow through action, so all moving parts are in a certain space in time at a certain position when the hit happens. The timing of the moving parts together to the hit is the "timing" of the shot. I don't think it's the "correct time to hit the ball" when you are ready to finally shoot, although that is also needed. I view that as just part of the pre shot routing, getting in the stance, lining up the tip, focusing on the cueball hit point and the object ball aim, getting the speed and stoke lubed through practice strokes, then when you are ready to hit, the final shot is when timing of the shot comes in with arm, wrist, distance of the stroke. With the break we also have the feet and rest of the body, working together so the point of contact happens when all those parts are in sync with each other in a single line.
Say for a baseball player, the timing of the swing is when the bat, legs, torso, etc.. move together to contact the incoming ball at the sweet point of the flight and position of the bat to hit it over the wall, not too far behind the ball coming in, not too far in front of it. The contact split second of the ideal swing is the "timing" of the player's swing, everything comes together at once. They are timing when the swing happens, so it contacts the flying ball at just the right spot of the bat's motion to get maximum power. If the motions are off the timing, a less than ideal hit happens. Same thing with the pool game break, which is probably where there is more moving parts and more motion happening than most other strokes, the timing of the hit is harder to, well, time, hehe.
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What if one were to posit that there is no such thing as "timing" in a sport where the ball that you are trying to hit is stationary, e.g. billiards and golf? For instance, in baseball you could say, "Oh, his timing was off, he swung too early and fanned at the pitch." Or, "The batter's timing was perfect on that pitch and he laced one into centerfield." In golf and billiards, your "timing" can be anything you decide because the ball you are trying to hit is not coming at you, therefore you can swing at your leisure, whenever you are ready, and you can swing slow or you can swing fast. Therefore, "timing" in golf and billiards is literally the time from when you start your swing until you hit the ball. Some instructors may say you should take longer to swing, e.g. employ a slooow backstroke, a long pause, then begin the forward stroke, but then shouldn't you be talking about "time", i.e. the duration of your stroke, and not "timing" as if to say if you don't swing at the ball *now*, you will not hit the ball correctly?
If your timing is off in golf, what does that mean? You turned your hips too early on the downswing, so your club head face was angled in the wrong direction at impact? Okay, maybe the golf swing is more complex than stroking a pool cue, so "timing" has more meaning when applied to the golf swing. In pool, I think "timing" may be more properly applied to a break shot, where you may stand up and turn your hips in the middle of your stroke, so the point in time when your cue tip strikes the cue ball has to be "timed" with your hips and elbow drop. But with a normal pool stroke on a normal shot, does "timing" have much meaning? You keep your shoulder still, you pull the cue back, then you swing forward at a stationary ball. For people who drop their elbow, I guess you could say the "timing" of the stroke has to be such that the elbow drop happens after contact. For people who swoop the cue from right to left as they stroke, they do have to have good "timing" in order to hit the cue ball straight: they have to make contact with the cue ball at the same time that the tip is momentarily pointing in the right direction.
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CJ has a good video on tempo training, which is somewhat related to these topics:
Coordination is the movement of multiple supporting parts in correct synchronization - I think that timing is a WHEN and not a HOW.
Repeatedly beginning an execution of movement whether towards a stationary or moving object at the correct TIME when your mind says GO bc everything looks and or feels correct is great timing - IMO
So many cue misses result from beginning the cue stroke either pre or post maximum correct focus - getting your timing down is releasing the cue WHEN you just know that moment is correct - over and over again.
Everyone here makes great points!!
Repeatedly beginning an execution of movement whether towards a stationary or moving object at the correct TIME when your mind says GO bc everything looks and or feels correct is great timing - IMO
So many cue misses result from beginning the cue stroke either pre or post maximum correct focus - getting your timing down is releasing the cue WHEN you just know that moment is correct - over and over again.
Everyone here makes great points!!
I've read a lot about the accelerating your cue perfectly timed into the cue ball on here and many advocate for it. Tin Man even went into great detail about the advantages of slowly accelerating your cue on the forward stroke, and its advantages. It all makes sense to me and I've played around with it all....but....
On the table the only part of my stroke that I can seem to reliably control is my backstroke. If I keep it slow and steady with a nice pause at the end, the forward stroke seems to take care of itself. When my timing is off, I focus on slowing down my backstroke and things seem to get back in line. Even on the power shots, I often have to remind myself to go slower on the backstroke.
Lastly, timing is funny. I think we tend to perceive time faster than it actually passes (or is it the other way around?) So, I can feel like I'm moving my cue really slowly and then I can watch a video of it, and it's almost never as slow as I thought.
On the table the only part of my stroke that I can seem to reliably control is my backstroke. If I keep it slow and steady with a nice pause at the end, the forward stroke seems to take care of itself. When my timing is off, I focus on slowing down my backstroke and things seem to get back in line. Even on the power shots, I often have to remind myself to go slower on the backstroke.
Lastly, timing is funny. I think we tend to perceive time faster than it actually passes (or is it the other way around?) So, I can feel like I'm moving my cue really slowly and then I can watch a video of it, and it's almost never as slow as I thought.
Ah, ok. I was a 7/7 when I played. I quit when they raised me to an 8 in 9ball because it made it mathematically difficukt/impossible to play on the same team with my friends. This is why I am, and will forever be, a 7/8 and not a 7/9.
This is something, I learnt as well. You back arm is going through quicker, than you think.
By feeling your arm/elbow through the shot. You will get more of an idea. What's happening. Even though, it feels slow. It probably isn't. Your just more aware of it.