I'd like to discuss cue acceleration

Shane gets it by standing up during the shot stroke so he can straighten his arm and swing that longer "lever" using his shoulder muscle to get more speed than swinging just half of it (the forearm) with his biceps muscle.
Have you tried gripping loosey-goosey & snapping that wrist like you're throwing a long dart through an engine block?
Boxers and golfers generate power and speed from the hips up.
Most weak breakers rely on arm speed only.
Try to use the hips rotating to generate more speed and power.
Your legs are stronger than your arms.
I'm 76 years old 5'8 tall and 180 pounds and can break at 20 to 22 MPH using the hips up method

OK, I got to do a brief break practice session. Have a long way to go. The standing up added something. Trying the image of throwing a dart through an engine block did something too. Hitting regular shots like that got me feeling the acceleration better. The hip rotation didn't click. But Hogan's 5 lessons hip rotation explanation gets me coming over the top for a hard pull, pull hook, too. Needed that lateral hip motion before the rotation that others explained I think. Different sport. I think the standing up gets the hips moving and "uses the ground". Too early to really judge, but these ideas gave me 2-3 mph more right away. Not at 20 yet. My goal is right where Measureman is- 20-22 consistent with enough control for practicality. So thanks all.

P.S. OTOH buying a more expensive break cue might be the answer.😉
 
OK, I got to do a brief break practice session. Have a long way to go. The standing up added something. Trying the image of throwing a dart through an engine block did something too. Hitting regular shots like that got me feeling the acceleration better. The hip rotation didn't click. But Hogan's 5 lessons hip rotation explanation gets me coming over the top for a hard pull, pull hook, too. Needed that lateral hip motion before the rotation that others explained I think. Different sport. I think the standing up gets the hips moving and "uses the ground". Too early to really judge, but these ideas gave me 2-3 mph more right away. Not at 20 yet. My goal is right where Measureman is- 20-22 consistent with enough control for practicality. So thanks all.

P.S. OTOH buying a more expensive break cue might be the answer.😉
The twist doesn't work for me either. I hit my hardest, most consistent break by slowly pulling back with my weight on the back leg.
I then calmly push forward from my back foot leaving the cue in place. Once I'm forward enough that my breaking arm is straight, I come through with the arm and extend to the target. I'll try to clock the speed next time I'm practicing. The spread and the CB control are great, so I have not felt the need to clock it.
 
This subject has been talked about since the beginning of billiards, probably for over 500 years. However, properly accelerating your cue into the cue ball still remains elusive to most people (more than 50%) who play. I tried to help players become aware of this with the DigiCue (follow-through parameter) and I have gotten some good feedback, and also some mixed results.

I have experiment/observed/read that shoulder recruitment in the stroke is responsible for large variations in tip accuracy, and thus leads to many of the other dynamic problems (symptoms) that we are familiar with: quick stroke, standing up quickly, not taking your time, careless errors... based on the lack-of-confidence caused by a "large rifle spread" in tip position/accuracy on the cue ball. Most other sports require an explosive acceleration to generate power. A punch is a natural movement, so is lifting something, or jumping, or reacting to a predator quickly. Maybe this is why a slowly accelerating pool stroke is difficult to master... it is the opposite of our physiology.

I have also found that a big reason for shoulder recruitment is because of the perceived need to quickly generate power in the stroke. It is hard to convince or train a player that recruits their shoulder that power can be obtained by backstroke length alone, and that the forward stroke acceleration can remain constant and comfortable. It is hard to make this concept stick, but may be the gap needed to move someone plateaued at a B-level or lower, up to a higher level... the idea of generating power by using distance, instead of time.

I am thinking that there are some who grasp this concept early or easily, some who work very hard to figure it out (me) and some who never do. The former often can not understand why the latter struggle so much because they also don't realize their own realization.

What is your experience with my comments above? Was this one of your milestones? Was this ever an issue for you?

Nate
My experience and knowledge is that a players doesn’t accelerate into the cueball . Instead, they are at near zero acceleration but maximum speed for that stroke.

Is that what you mean???
 
Based on you posts #1 and #6, it looks like you are trying to graduate your stroke speed on all shots, especially your break. Most recommendations have included large muscle action. In my opinion these have a tendency to decrease accuracy. Some have included timing but have not explained timing.

This has worked for me. Starting with a shot going one table length, pull the cue back and on the final stroke and stop. The grip should be fully open in the back of your hand with your wrist cocked backward. When back, stop your stroke for 2 seconds then start foward slowly while gradually increasing speed. The timing comes in with a wrist flick forward as the cue hits the ball. It may take a little practice to get the wrist flick straight forward. The cue should follow thru 4 or more inches after hitting the cue.

Just give it a try. Then increase speed until you get to break speed.
 
Many years ago there was a great thread on here. Colin, I believe his last name was Calypso or similar, worked on his break speed. I think he got it up two or three miles an hour best I recall.

Working from memory, there is a mile or two to be found in the wrist snap alone. That has to be perfectly timed of course.

Two things are important for speed, get as many body parts moving as possible, and timing. Watch, really watch, video of people breaking in matches. Many people get down on the break shot just like any other shot, then they stand with little or no forward motion, then they release their stroke. They freed up their body to move but they also left several miles on the table that they could have had for free!

For speed the best break starts at the balls of your feet. There is a little speed in the ankles and the knees. Then we come to the waist and lower to mid spine. A lot of types of motion in the hips and lower spine so speed is available from unfolding and from twisting like in a golf swing. Glossing over this because I no longer remember details but I think the hips and spine were worth over a mile an hour. Some speed picked up in shoulder movement, the same as always in the elbow, and most can find some speed in their wrists.

When it is all worked out, the parts that created the break before working on it aren't moving any faster than they ever did, or not significantly. However, a lot more parts are moving including some big joints with a lot of leverage. Aside from the wrist snap, a little added finger movement should create a last bit of speed.

The big key is timing. Most of this body movement is often done too early in the stroke, even before the forward stroke begins. This is wasted motion other than freeing the body to move. You could have stood up during or before the backstroke, stopped dead still, and got the same results you are getting now. The key to an easy "free" increase in break speed involves getting your whole body in motion, and getting it in motion at the right time.

I haven't worked on ultimate break speed. Before I returned to pool my low back was pretty much destroyed, explosive movement wasn't in the cards. However, I have worked on a speed move that relied on both speed and timing. The fast draw with a pistol. Your movements are important as is your timing. While it shouldn't be possible many people flash their weak hand or their, ahem, wedding tackle, when drawing. Much of their leg including their knees too. Everything they muzzle flash has been shot by somebody! Learning a fast draw is simple, a lot of slow draws, even very very slow draws making sure everything is in the right position during the draw. You can't shoot knee, nut, leg or hand if it never gets in front of the muzzle!

The paragraph above isn't off topic because your stroke for normal shots or the break can be created like the fast draw with a pistol. Put the parts and timing together with many slow repetitions. When everything is moving together properly you slowly increase speed. Watching fast draws, the best appear more smooth than fast. The jerkier draws are usually slower. With the perfect draw the hand swoops down and plucks the pistol out of the holster with no feeling of slap with the palm or snatch with the fingers, the pistol wasn't in your hand, now it is.

The kitchen table or whatever is handy can be used to get your break timing together. Watching some world class players, much of their break speed is lost because much of their body motion is too early. Free speed is a matter of timing. Get more parts in motion during the stroke. Have them still in maximum motion at cue ball contact.

Devote twenty or thirty minutes a day into the break shot, I think Shane does or did do an hour every long practice session on just the break. Hit one ball or a few if you don't have somebody to rack for you. If you rack full racks you will spend all of your time racking. Hit balls for thirty minutes, swap rackers and let your training partner hit balls for thirty minutes if you have or can find one. With home tables bribing children may be an option too.

The break and the lag may be the two most important shots in pool, and the least practiced!

Hu
 
Colin Colenso? Remember the name not that post. But good post here. I am going to try some more of this stuff and will report what if anything seems to work. Earlier I re-watched Dr. Dave’s breakdown of Shane’s technique and will try a couple things from that too.
 
Colin Colenso? Remember the name not that post. But good post here. I am going to try some more of this stuff and will report what if anything seems to work. Earlier I re-watched Dr. Dave’s breakdown of Shane’s technique and will try a couple things from that too.

Colin made several youtube video's. Doubt they are still up under his name but dave or somebody else may still have his video on their site. Colenso may be right. I think it is.

Hu
 
Should of called this thread, break acceleration. When I first read it. I thought you where talking about cue action in general.
 
Should of called this thread, break acceleration. When I first read it. I thought you where talking about cue action in general.
Maybe. And maybe I derailed it. But the way I see it breaking is the extreme example. Ball speed is the reflection of the purity of the stroke and accuracy. Miscues aren't fast. Some of the break techniques are different but the discussion of timing and acceleration applies to other shots. Kind of like comparing long driving to controlled wedges in golf. Some of the swing issues and timing apply to both. The guys hitting a golf ball miles have to be accurate too. In that I mean both the quality of the strike and the percentage of error in direction. Even the long drive guys as opposed to tour players who hit it long need to be accurate because at their distances hitting that grid isn't always easy. So when a really good player gets great cueball action looking like he is stroking it easy or when a player has a big break, don't both tell us something about the cue action?
 
Thanks Shooting arts. Here's what I found on YouTube.


I also looked at a technique video for fast pitch softball pitching. I knew nothing of that technique. Interesting in that it is more straight line like pool compared to rotational in golf. and has an underhand delivery.
 
Thanks Shooting arts. Here's what I found on YouTube.


I also looked at a technique video for fast pitch softball pitching. I knew nothing of that technique. Interesting in that it is more straight line like pool compared to rotational in golf. and has an underhand delivery.
I think that is the right video. Quality looks poor on my computer but hopefully the information comes across. Colin seems to be a sharp guy and he put some effort into the project.

I'll have to take a look at that fast pitch video if I find it just out of curiosity. I used to be able to whip a ball over the plate pretty viciously but purely amateur no training. We can make connections and gains from surprising places sometimes too.

Hu
 
I think Shane does or did do an hour every long practice session on just the break.

written 15(!) years ago:
"There is an interview with him on youtube where he said before a tournament he was practicing for 8 hours a day and 1/2 of the time was dedicated to his break..."

source: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/how-much-what-does-shane-van-boening-practice.110226/

when I look at this video, and see how good and pure shane looks..I'm not surprised. he's obviously put a lot of time in.

 
written 15(!) years ago:
"There is an interview with him on youtube where he said before a tournament he was practicing for 8 hours a day and 1/2 of the time was dedicated to his break..."

source: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/how-much-what-does-shane-van-boening-practice.110226/

when I look at this video, and see how good and pure shane looks..I'm not surprised. he's obviously put a lot of time in.




Shane has paid and continues to pay his dues in pool. Talent met dedication to produce his career.

Hu
 
ON THE SNAP VINNY! Learn how to use your body. That's great advise. If at first you don't succeeded suck and suck until you do succeed.
I imagine that sometimes when your not really thinking about it, you have made some killer breaks. Next time that happens stop and remember just how it felt. And as you try new techniques try not to think about the ones that don't work well and move on. This will help you develop good muscle memory so you can do it consistently without consciously thinking about it. It will just become what you do. Ta'da you'll have a break style!
The same goes for any shot you wish to make often and easy.
 
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ON THE SNAP VINNY! Learn how to use your body. That's great advise. If at first you don't succeeded suck and suck until you do succeed.
I imagine that sometimes when your not really thinking about it, you have made some killer breaks. Next time that happens stop and remember just how it felt. And as you try new techniques try not to think about the ones that don't work well and move on. This will help you develop good muscle memory so you can do it consistently without consciously thinking about it. It will just become what you do. Ta'da you'll have a break style!

It is amazing how much more energy a square hit puts into the head ball than one that is the slightest bit off. Except when cut breaking deliberately, a square break is gold. Back when the world was a lot younger I often seemed to break softly on a bar table but the cue had maximum low and a bit of left and a rack peeled open like a stomped on tomato when I hit the head ball squarely!

Hu
 
It is amazing how much more energy a square hit puts into the head ball than one that is the slightest bit off. Except when cut breaking deliberately, a square break is gold. Back when the world was a lot younger I often seemed to break softly on a bar table but the cue had maximum low and a bit of left and a rack peeled open like a stomped on tomato when I hit the head ball squarely!

Hu
Yup! I ask new players just aim very carefuly when breaking and tell them speed and power will come after the shot is consistant accurate and boring. They almost always break much better imediatly just by taking the wild randomness out of the un controlled power shot. That controled thinking tends to transfers into the rest of the game rather naturally.
 
So how do you time it up? By this I mean with swing thoughts or techniques. Like visualizing hitting a ghost cue ball behind the real one or feeling the wrist release or grip close at a certain point in the stroke etc... how do people get that 25 mph ball speed? You see those lists - long bridge loose grip etc... but any ideas on specific timing for max speed are appreciated

Just a lot of practice. Basically you want your feet, hips, torso and arm moving forward in sync with each-other. With my breaks, I am pretty sure my body moves into the shot a split second before my arm moves forward much at all. If any of them starts to lag behind or get ahead of the other then funny things can happen like a miscue or loss of power.

Neils has a video on the break

Roberto Gomez is great at the break timing and his is pretty easy to see, although the extended backstroke is not the best thing to try to copy LOL
 
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It dawned on me that with a tennis serve, arm swing speed will only get you so far.
The big servers in tennis also combine a lot of wrist snap along with arm speed.

It also works with your pool break if & when you incorporate a strong wrist hinge.
To do that, fingers position in a handshake & grip tension becomes very important.

It’s been written that Hank Aaron possessed the strongest wrists in MLB and could
not only hit home runs but ranks first in extra base hits attributable to his great swing.

So when you practice your break shot, or really any shot, make sure your hand position
allows a wrist hinge. Don’t wrap your fingers around the cue butt; just shake hands with it.

You’ll start to realize the speed of your stroke is maximized when your forearm feels like it’s
traveling faster than your upper arm. Using a wrist hinge seems to add speed as your finish.
 
Talking just about the pool shot stroke- not the break - I find that most overly accelerated final strokes to the cue ball are as rooted in what is going on in the shooters head at that moment as much as the shooters stroke mechanics being at fault.

One needs to address BOTH aspects of the game in order to become smooth as silk on each and every stroke.

For the mechanics part, successful stroke mechanics will involve a suitable pre shot routine, and delivery of the cue through the cue ball in a manner that is consistently correct to deliver the cue ball directly to the intended target and also allows the cue ball to react after collision with the object ball also as intended by the shooter. For this successful stroke process, I highly recommend Mark Wilson's " Play Great Pool" book- it must be studied and your mechanics need to be constantly video reviewed to get it correct- it will take hundreds of hours- no shortcuts.

TIMING is simply beginning the final forward movement of your cue at the EXACT moment when your eyes are LOCKED on the object ball contact point. Some of us need to actually train ourselves on being able to Lock our eyes onto the OB contact point, especially those with attention deficits. some require much more training than others in terms of locking and timing with regard to the pool stroke.

People with "natural ability" are usually those in sports who have a superior ability to lock focus and then time their movements to their locked focus when executing a pool stroke, a baseball swing, a basketball shot release - think Willie mosconi, Ted Williams, Michael Jordan. many of us need to TRAIN ourselves to try and get to a superior level on these two aspects- Final Focus and TIMING.

Lastly, much over accelerated stroking results from what is going on inside the shooters head. All the negative thoughts that can interfere with the RELAXED process of final cue delivery -fear of missing, fear of losing, uncertainty, lack of conviction on a shot, etc. etc. I see this all the time with guys who run a few balls, face a tougher shot or situation, and then just ram that cue stick at double the speed of their prior shots and miss badly.

Again, we need to TRAIN our mind to deal with whatever demons enter it during play, we need to identify those demons for ourselves, we need to calm our mind, quiet our thoughts during play, and learn to accept and properly deal with emotion during play.

Body and mind both require training to achieve a consistently great pool stroke, The trick is to consciously understand what is wrong with our own stroke, what is going on- with the body and in the mind to cause the issues, and then work on correcting it all - so that we are not thinking about any of this as we perform a consistently correct stroke.
 
Maybe. And maybe I derailed it. But the way I see it breaking is the extreme example. Ball speed is the reflection of the purity of the stroke and accuracy. Miscues aren't fast. Some of the break techniques are different but the discussion of timing and acceleration applies to other shots. Kind of like comparing long driving to controlled wedges in golf. Some of the swing issues and timing apply to both. The guys hitting a golf ball miles have to be accurate too. In that I mean both the quality of the strike and the percentage of error in direction. Even the long drive guys as opposed to tour players who hit it long need to be accurate because at their distances hitting that grid isn't always easy. So when a really good player gets great cueball action looking like he is stroking it easy or when a player has a big break, don't both tell us something about the cue action?
Your right, in both ways, I should of left my original reply un edited.
Still which ever way, you look at it, it means the same thing.
It comes down to cue action and timing. And when you figure, what might work.
Then it's Time for the endless hours of, working on it!
One thing I noticed, when i watch players with a big pause, is quite often it will, throw there timing off. I think that side of it, should come naturally. Same with having the right Rhythm around the table. It should end up being, something you just do. If your having to think about it, all the time. It's going to be too much, as well trying to play the game.
Any how, That's my thought on it.
 
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