Identifying a joint

[TheThaiger]

I don't know the joint on my cue, nor I can I find any info on google - it is a cheap Buffalo with a SS joint. Is there a way of identifying joints by measurement? I presume 5x16/18 or whatever actually means something, but what? Is i possible to tell by eye?

 

[TheThaiger]

No, not possible to tell by eye.

Take it to a machinist and ask them to measure the thread pitch and the diameter.

The 5/16 is the diameter in inches, the 14 or 18 is the pitch.

3/8-10 is 3/8" with 10 threads per inch.

Someone is going to get on here and tell you to go to a hardware store and try turning nuts onto the pin. Do not do that. The pins for cues are almost all exclusively used only in cue building. The only exception I am aware of is 5/16-18, which is a coarse machine screw.

dld

Thanks DD - very helpful. I now understand the diameter, but the pich puzzles me - I also have a viking QR butt, which is 5/16-18, I believe - but I don't understand how the pitch can be 18 threads per inch when it is QR and has only about 5 threads, with the rest of the pin being threadless. (I hope this makes sense!)

I don't have access to a machinist, so am stabbing about in the dark here.

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

You can try screweing a joint protector off of another cue on it. If you have access to any Meucci or Joss cues that would eliminate one or the other.

 

[PaulieB]

Or you could do what a league team member did one night and try screwing on my bagged I-2 shaft and completely F-ing it up and then say "I was just trying to figure out the pin on this cue", which was a complete piece of junk cue.

All this was done while I was shooting my match and I had no idea he was going through my stuff. Also, my 3/8x10 JPs were sitting on the table next to my case... /sigh ... as mentioned, he could of just used those.

I love league night!

 

[bradsh98]

No, not possible to tell by eye.

It is possible to tell by eye if you know what you're looking at, but may not be possible for everyone.

Any machinist should have what they call a thread gauge--looks like a bunch of different combs that will fit into the threads.

This is more commonly referred to as a pitch gauge, or thread pitch gauge. The term thread gauge could refer to a number of different types of gauges.

You can use this link for a visual reference to determine what pin your cue has.

http://www.predatorcues.com/images/available_joints.pdf

 

[perspicaz]

I have seen two types of buffalo joints:

- 5/16x18 piloted (not quick release)
- accu-loc (quick release with cuetec style pin)

There might be others but those are the ones I have seen here (buffalo is pretty common in Spain).

 

[brandoncook26]

Why don't you take a picture of it. I'm sure someone here could look and tell you what it is. There are some smart people here.

 

[DaveK]

It is possible to tell by eye if you know what you're looking at, but may not be possible for everyone.

This is more commonly referred to as a pitch gauge, or thread pitch gauge. The term thread gauge could refer to a number of different types of gauges.

Another poster mentioned not to try to screw on standard nuts as a test, but I think that a standard bolt makes an acceptable in-a-pinch pitch guage :grin-square:

- a 5/16-18 UNC bolt meshed perfectly with my Schmelke 15/16-18 pin,
- a chunk of 3/4-10 bolt meshes perfectly with a 3/8-10 pin in my BHQ ( it meshes perfectly wrt thread peaks & valleys, but obviously the thread shape is very different, so the mesh is not as tight as the 14 and 18 tpi tests)
- I'm sure a 7/16-14 bolt would mesh perfectly with my Falcon 5/16-14 pin

These bolts cost loose change and can be found everywhere.

You can use this link for a visual reference to determine what pin your cue has.

http://www.predatorcues.com/images/available_joints.pdf

I thought that a real-size dimensionally accurate illustration of various joints might be a valuable tool. The Predator picture has different scales such that the 5/16-14 looks larger than the 3/8-10 which looks larger than the 5/16-18. If you had an accurate reference sheet you could hold your cue up to it and hopefully recognise the joint size :thumbup:

Now a question for the OP : Why do you ask ? If the answer is so that you can get a shaft to fit then I'd be inclined to get a professional cue-dude/dudette to check. As others have mentioned pins do have slight variations and it would suck to order/receive the wrong one.

Dave

 

[bradsh98]

I thought that a real-size dimensionally accurate illustration of various joints might be a valuable tool. The Predator picture has different scales such that the 5/16-14 looks larger than the 3/8-10 which looks larger than the 5/16-18. If you had an accurate reference sheet you could hold your cue up to it and hopefully recognise the joint size :thumbup:

Though it would be easier if the joints were all to the same scale, the Predator image is in PDF format, so it is easy to change the size right on the screen. You can upscale or downscale the image to easily view the pin in reference to the joint collar, which are all the same diameter, though different scales. Referencing the pin to the joint collar will make it easier to cross-reference the different pins.

The trick using the different bolts for comparison will work well as bolts with the same pitch (or threads per inch) should "mesh" with one another, no matter what the major diameter of the thread.

 

[bradsh98]

The OP asked a question where he didn't appear to know even what diameter the pin was, I therefore answered that he wouldn't know.

Aside from that, I defy you to tell me, by eye, no tools used, the difference between a 3/8-10 from a 3/8-11.

There a lot of smart guys on here who want to brag about being able to tell anything from anything else, but in the end if the OP had bought an expensive shaft that didn't fit, he wouldn't be happy.

I stand by my advice.

dld

I don't disagree with what you said about the OP having difficulting determining on his own what pin his cue has.. However, you simply stated "It's not possible to tell by eye". This can be interpreted to mean that no one can tell by eye. But, this is simply not true. I just wanted to clarify that fact. And as for a 3/8-11.. I've never heard of that thread used in cue making. Not to say that it isn't, I've just never heard of it. Keep in mind, my posts were mostly related to cue making, in which there are a specific variety of threads used.

It's nothing personal really. I apologize if you felt it was an attack. My only intentions were to clarify and expand upon what you had originally stated.

 

[LPCUSTOMCUES]

"Aside from that, I defy you to tell me, by eye, no tools used, the difference between a 3/8-10 from a 3/8-11."

He might not be able to, but I can. So it is possible.

And as for a 3/8-11.. I've never heard of that thread used in cue making. Not to say that it isn't, I've just never heard of it. Keep in mind, my posts were mostly related to cue making, in which there are a specific variety of threads used.

There is definitly a 3/8-11 pin in cuemaking. Southwest uses it exclusively.
I'm sure other makers use it too. I use it on occasion, if thats what a customer wants.

 

[DaveK]

Aside from that, I defy you to tell me, by eye, no tools used, the difference between a 3/8-10 from a 3/8-11.

So now you need a 5/8-11 bolt as well ... another $0.10 ... and I think a good practiced eye (not mine) could tell the difference, but that is not the main inquiry.

Also OP, measuring is easy you just need a ruler, reasonable technique, and a good eye. If you can play pool you can measure pins.

Dave

 

[rackem]

So now you need a 5/8-11 bolt as well ... another $0.10 ... and I think a good practiced eye (not mine) could tell the difference, but that is not the main inquiry.

Also OP, measuring is easy you just need a ruler, reasonable technique, and a good eye. If you can play pool you can measure pins.

Dave

Now that's what you call a big pin!

 

[DaveK]

Now that's what you call a big pin!

A guy has to be careful when using an 8" chunk of 3/4-10 threaded rod as a pitch guage ... drop that on your toe and you'll feel it !

Dave <-- was careful

 

[TATE]

Why don't you take a picture of it. I'm sure someone here could look and tell you what it is. There are some smart people here.

Here you go - let's all take a stab at it...

 

[TATE]

It is just awesome how something like this can become a pissing contest. Dude asks a question and everybody wants to jump in to brag about how they are better at *whatever* than anybody else.

If someone asks a question so basic as the pin size and has no clue, I'm going to dissuade him from 'experimenting'.

As for those who offered (DaveK) that he go out and buy a 5/8"x11 bolt, well, his screen name is includes 'thai'. Maybe he isn't in this country? Hmmm? Do you know how hard it is to get US-standard bolts in asian and european countries? I do.

dld

He didn't say what he wanted, but if somebody is out for an aftermarket shaft, I always advise them to get a "partial" and have it fitted by a cue maker. That way you get a perfect fit and excellent alignment too 100% of the time, no muss, and a little fuss. The end cost is usually the same as buying a complete aftermarket shaft.

Many joints look the same, but they are not necessarily exactly the same. There is variance in the manufacturing process too - where what looks like a standard 3/8 X 10 for example might be machined down smaller. I've seen some odd stuff over the years.


Chris