If I buy the parts?

[SPINTHEBALL]

I know only too well about the closely guarded secrets that abound in the industry.I also know the forum is titled "Ask the Cuemaker'.I never asked anyone to reveal their trade secrets,just asked a legitimate question about a blank.Not ONE Cuemaker took the time to tell me to kiss off or answer my question.That is why I posted the thread saying the forum is a joke.If the makers are not willing to answer questions that are not closely guarded secrets then why the forum?

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

If I buy the parts

Ok, let's say I wanted a full spliced cue with Ebony at the bottom with a 1.3 grip section, with an Ivory butt cap, flat face Ivory joints and Ivory ferrules, with two conical shafts, and Ivory inlays that I designed (simple cut).

Now what am I supposed to do? Am I being told that most cue makers would not do this because they don't make cues with those dimensions and criteria? Am I supposed to find a cue maker who just comes close to what I want? And I can't provide parts that I want?

This brings us back to the old question of "WHAT MAKES A Q CUSTOM". Definitly a cuemaker who makes dozens, or even thousands of cues, that all look alike, is not in my opinion making "CUSTOM" cues. BUT what do you call a standard production cue, made to your specs as to length, weight, taper etc. I would think that would be considered 'CUSTOM". Even though I only have 1 taper for playing cues & 1 for break cues, my cues are ALL ONE-OF-A-KIND. No design is ever repeated. I have even let people pick out the piece of wood, to be used. In my mind I make a "CUSTOM' pool cue. If you asked me for the above mentioned cue, I would tell you that my butt diameter was 1.265-1.275 & that my taper is not conical, but has my version of this taper. If this is not something that you are willing to compromise on, then yes please go, with my blessing, to find someone who will make what you want.

Here's what turned me against customers providing their own parts. I had a customer who brought me 2 slabs of Ivory, that he bought on E-BAY. About 3 months later when I was ready to cut out his inlays, the slabs were twisted & unuseable. THEY WERE GREEN & NOT PROPORLY DRYED. When I called him to tell him, what had happened, he accused me of lyeing, just so I could sell him MY Ivory. We parted ways & I'm sure he told many people HIS version. I on the other hand used MY Ivory, finished the Q & sold it to the 1st person that saw it. I DON'T NEED THAT KIND OF HASSLE OR PUBLICITY...JER

 

[cueman]

I for one will try to accomodate my customers with any SIZE shaft they want. Or any length, up to 60 inches, but to maintain the integraty & playability, that people have come to expect from a BLACK HEART CUE.......
the rest of the cue's shape & size is the same, as ALL of the rest that I make. If I start making cues with a 1" butt diameter & a compound butt taper , it's no longer something that I have spent 20 years perfecting, as my cue. That's a BASTERD, that won't have a BLACK HEART on it's butt...JER

Well said! I hate building a cue I know will not play like I want my cues to play. It seems like everyone in the local poolroom winds up owning or hitting with it and not liking it. But then in everyone's opinion it is your fault it does not hit good instead of the customer's who wanted the odd dimension cue. It is a no win!
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[JoeyInCali]

Ok, let's say I wanted a full spliced cue with Ebony at the bottom with a 1.3 grip section, with an Ivory butt cap, flat face Ivory joints and Ivory ferrules, with two conical shafts, and Ivory inlays that I designed (simple cut).

Now what am I supposed to do? Am I being told that most cue makers would not do this because they don't make cues with those dimensions and criteria? Am I supposed to find a cue maker who just comes close to what I want? And I can't provide parts that I want?

That's not too hard as long as the full-splice blank has no veneers.

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

Jeff, I think you have found your cue maker!

 

[cueman]

I understand what he is saying. I have provided my own ivory parts to many 'known' ACA cuemakers to cut down on the price of a cue. What some cuemakers charge for an ivory buttcap or joint is really stupid. I was told by more than one ACA member that the reason for the hight prices is because of potential loss of the ivory due to cracking during turning and installation, the price is so high is to protect their investment in case of ivory loss. But if I wanted to 'gamble' and provide my own ivory, they would install the parts at a MUCH cheaper rate (standard cue repair prices) but it was at my own risk, in other words, if the ivory cracked during installation, tough luck.... I would have to buy some more for them to use.

If a cuemaker refuses to use the ivory you provide for them, I would think twice about using them, because it sure looks like they are just out to make a buck.

just my experience and 2 cents

I for one do not want to use anyone elses ivory or their parts. Here is why. Yes I would make you responsible if the ivory cracked. But what about my wasted labor in Ivory that cracks. What if it is green and does not crack while drilling and cracks after it is on the cue. Does the customer pay for the labor to replace the Butt plate or joint and to refinish and rewrap the cue? Even if he agrees to all that. I still would not want to use unknown ivory as it is my experience, it does not matter who pays for it, the customer and his peers will still feel it is the cuemakers fault he is having to spend this money. I want happy customers and using the customers parts is just begging to have something go wrong and wind up with unhappy customers.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

That's not too hard as long as the full-splice blank has no veneers.

Joey, concerning the F/S with veneer,how did Brunswick turn out so many thousands of the cue,blanks too, when by all accounts they are so very hard to make?

 

[JoeyInCali]

Joey, concerning the F/S with veneer,how did Brunswick turn out so many thousands of the cue,blanks too, when by all accounts they are so very hard to make?

Labor was cheap then and they didn't really care if the points were off.
You try to make them now and if the points are off, who'd buy them?
Joel Hercek takes months to make blanks and a lot of them get chucked.

 

[cueaddicts]

Well said! I hate building a cue I know will not play like I want my cues to play. It seems like everyone in the local poolroom winds up owning or hitting with it and not liking it. But then in everyone's opinion it is your fault it does not hit good instead of the customer's who wanted the odd dimension cue. It is a no win!
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

No win is right.

Jeff,

Chris and Jerry have provided you with good answers. To expand on that, here's some food for thought....

Now, making a cue of out something historically significant like a Titlist, Spain, or Gus blank is in my opinion something else altogether, but for cuemakers who care about their reputation, the simple act of building a cue is putting their reputation on the line. So why should they want to risk that with unknown and "pre-fab" materials, when they have built their reputation over time with hard work and integrity?

Sure you might find some hack that would do it....but what's the reward in that???

Sean

 

[Jeff]

So is it the "parts" that are the problem, or the dimensions, or both?

The dimensions are the deal killer on my part. My question is would the dimensions be the deal killer on the cue makers part?

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

Man, I wish he would chuck one at me!

 

[cueman]

So is it the "parts" that are the problem, or the dimensions, or both?

The dimensions are the deal killer on my part. My question is would the dimensions be the deal killer on the cue makers part?

Both are a problem. Here is an example why it is not only parts that are the problem. I built a cue for a shortstop speed player here locally that I have known for years. He wanted the butt built huge in diameter and a little longer. Well eventually he sold the cue on one of his "I got busted by a road player and am quitting pool" times. Well that cue came back to me to be shortened. I did that. Then It came back again to add inlays to the butt sleeve. Then they wanted me to thin it down and I refused. It could have cut through the inlays. The cue has changed hands a few times and only two people have liked the cue for it's larger butt. Well the shortstop starts back playing and buys the cue back, then does not like it because it is a inch shorter and does not like the inlays. It changes hands a couple more times and I have had customers order cues from me and say, "Can you make my butt a little thinner than you normally make them." Turns out they thought I made almost all my butts to that huge dimension and thought I was going to custom make them a thinner butt, until I explained to them I make my normal butts to the dimension they wanted. It is a headache I don't want. I have made a few odd dimension cues through the years and almost everyone of them has a story I could tell about it. What a headache.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

Jeff, you can now ammend your previous understanding of the deffinition for "Custom" cue. You don't get what you want,even if you are willing to pay,unless it is what the Cuemaker already does.Your only option is to become one yourself! How refreshing this must be for you. You do have another option,just win the next IPT event and I'm sure the makers that had objections to making the cue you want would accomodate you then.

 

[rhncue]

Jeff, you can now ammend your previous understanding of the deffinition for "Custom" cue. You don't get what you want,even if you are willing to pay,unless it is what the Cuemaker already does.Your only option is to become one yourself! How refreshing this must be for you. You do have another option,just win the next IPT event and I'm sure the makers that had objections to making the cue you want would accomodate you then.

I build Custom Cues and I build cues for retail sale. By this I meen that when someone wants a cue built it is built to their specs, 100%. If they want it 70" long with a 1.4" butt coller and a .5" joint then that is what I build them. All the cues I build for retail sale ( no one had ordered the cue ) then I build to my normal specs. When someone orders a cue I try and explain the reasons behind my normal specs but if they know what they want then so be it. I don't build full spliced cues, with or without veneers for the simple reason I don't have equipment set up for it as I don't have that many calls wanting them to take the time and money buying and setting up the equipment.
Someone stated that all cuemakers are are assemblers and in a way he is right. The cue has to be assembled from parts. Where he is wrong is where he stated that cuemakers by their parts. I don't know where he got that idea? I don't know of a single full time cue maker who doesn't make all their parts from raw materials other than maybe tips, bumpers and screws.
If someone wants to furnish their own material such as a special or unique piece of wood that's fine with me. I've got 400.00 worth of moisture meters and can just about give them the date it will be completed. If they want to bring their own ivory and stone that's fine also - only catch is that I don't discount. By this I meen is that if I charge an extra 100 or 125.00 for an ivory joint then that's what I charge even though they furnished it. If I think a cue would cost 500.00 more if I substituted ivory for the normal inlays then that's the price I quote even if they are furnishing the ivory. If you take your own porter house steak to a restaurant will they only charge you for the baked potato and salad?
Dick

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

If I buy the parts

Jeff, you can now ammend your previous understanding of the deffinition for "Custom" cue. You don't get what you want,even if you are willing to pay,unless it is what the Cuemaker already does.Your only option is to become one yourself! How refreshing this must be for you. You do have another option,just win the next IPT event and I'm sure the makers that had objections to making the cue you want would accomodate you then.

I don't care if he were next world champ. If I make a cue that is to his specs & it turns out to play like s@#*, the next owner is going to point out what a crappy Q I made. It could cost me dozens of sales. Most players have no idea what taper they are playing with or what size tip they use. They may say that it's a 19 oz., "PRO TAPER" with a 13mm tip, because that's what the salesman said it had. Upon examination it may easily be a 18.4 oz., 6" PRO taper with the size tip that he really loves, but when measured it's 12.6mm. Now if I build a cue like he ordered( instead of what he's actually playing with), he's going to tell everyone that "IT JUST DOESN'T PLAY LIKE MY OLD ONE". DAAA. That's why you can't trust what the customer tells you. HE JUST DOESN'T KNOW. I do a lot of repairs & one of the things I hear all of the time is, "CAN YOU TAKE THIS SHAFT DOWN TO A 10mm? CAUSE THAT'S WHAT MY BUDDY PLAYS WITH & I CAN REALLY GET THE ENGLISH". When I show him what a 10mm looks like, his eyes get big & he suddenly is not so sure, what animal his buddy has. CAN'T TRUST 'EM...JER

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

Your points are valid,but when will one of the Cue Makers here help this man?Is he doomed to forever dream of this custom cue he wants? I gather from all he has said that even though he can't find the cue already made he has found all the parts to make one. Is there Journeyman cue maker here that can meet his needs while applying his trade? Why not do what I saw a Cue Maker do in a similar circumstance and make the man the cue but not lend your name to it? Both of you will know before hand that the cue would'nt have your logo or signature.Just a thought,hope the guy looking finds someone willing to work for him.

 

[Jeff]

That's why you can't trust what the customer tells you. HE JUST DOESN'T KNOW.

Your feelings about people who buy custom cues confuses me a little.

I think most pool players with a few years under their belt know what they like and know what they don't, and I think it would be pretty easy to recognize the customers who are not serious about the game or don't show the certainty of what they want.

I've been around the block a few times and have been playing pool for a lot of years. I may not be a pro or even close to it, but I know what I like and I think I have the knowledge to specify the dimensions I want in a cue being made for me.

If I came to you wanting a cue made and you tried to tell me you knew better than me about what I wanted or needed, that would offend me a lot. I am sure I would be out the door pretty fast.

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

Yeah,I bet he would not put that quote in his ad's or on his website!

 

[Michael Webb]

Your feelings about people who buy custom cues confuses me a little.

I think most pool players with a few years under their belt know what they like and know what they don't, and I think it would be pretty easy to recognize the customers who are not serious about the game or don't show the certainty of what they want.

I've been around the block a few times and have been playing pool for a lot of years. I may not be a pro or even close to it, but I know what I like and I think I have the knowledge to specify the dimensions I want in a cue being made for me.

If I came to you wanting a cue made and you tried to tell me you knew better than me about what I wanted or needed, that would offend me a lot. I am sure I would be out the door pretty fast.

Nice website, I love Rotts as much as my pit. Beautiful animals.

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

If I buy the parts

Your feelings about people who buy custom cues confuses me a little.

I think most pool players with a few years under their belt know what they like and know what they don't, and I think it would be pretty easy to recognize the customers who are not serious about the game or don't show the certainty of what they want.

I've been around the block a few times and have been playing pool for a lot of years. I may not be a pro or even close to it, but I know what I like and I think I have the knowledge to specify the dimensions I want in a cue being made for me.

If I came to you wanting a cue made and you tried to tell me you knew better than me about what I wanted or needed, that would offend me a lot. I am sure I would be out the door pretty fast.

I have been doing this for 20 years & I can tell you, if you go to the pool room & ask where the balance point is on their Q, 75% will not know. If you ask them what taper they have, they cannot tell you good enough for me to make a Q JUST LIKE IT. YOU may know exactly what you have, but on the phone to a Qmaker, can you transfer enough info to him so, that he can build a Q like you want? I never tell a customer WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE. I listen, we talk about what he wants. I ask questions & make suggestions. There are things that I do & things I won't do & things that are negotiable. THEN WE COME TO THE PRICE. Things can change fast at this point. I think that if you go to my web site you will find my prices reasonable. Only twice have I had people order a Q & say price is not a problem. Usually they have a target price & what they want is nearly always over that. Then we have to cut. What can you do without? Do you have to have all of those inlays? Can I use immitation Ivory to cut the price. Do you really need that 2nd shaft? Building a Q is usually a joint project. Unlike some Qmakers I only require a payment up front on Qs, that are so differant, that I would have a problem selling them to someone else. I make 30-50 Qs a year & after all of the prep work & the Q is done, there are 2-3 every year that are not picked up because they no longer have the money. It can be frustrating...JER