Not 100% sure that Kao Kao is affiliated with Fury anymore....
If I had cues made to my specs, then would it be fair to say that I made them?
- Thread starter animatedvmaker
- Start date
Not 100% sure that Kao Kao is affiliated with Fury anymore....
I just FB'd them. Max Tsai, son of Nelson Tsai, is the manager of the plant so i guess same family is running things.
I thought the Tsai's started up MIT cues....in 2019.
Could be they make them too. Message i just got said Max Tsai is manager of Fury cues. I'm guessing that's most likely Nelson's son.
Name of D M Tsai’s company is DongYang. He started making cues in 1966. I don’t think he’s the son. He set up KaoKao, and then left to further the Fury brand. He then left Fury to start his own thing. Their quality is above anything I’ve seen coming from China, with the exception of Weilu (Peri/Eclat), but for the dollar, they’re exceptional. If I was to pull a Dean, and have 24 of the “zorros” run by them, you’d see a night and day difference in what the end customer received.
Yeah i just watched a video saying what you state here. I've had a MIT and was VERY well made. There is a Max Tsai at Fury who looks to be around 30 so i just guessed that had to be a son/nephew.
People walk up to me when I play with my MIT SW tribute, and think it’s the real deal. They nailed the design. Down to the .830 joint, and 3/8-11.5 thread. Cue is drop dead gorgeous. And less than the Zorros. And my cue has 6 spliced points, and SW ringwork.
Is there a dealer or do buy off their FB page? UD: i found contact info. May have to get one of those SW style cues.
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PM me if you’re looking for something of theirs. I have a friend who knows the owner at MIT. I have some of their cues in stock.
And he (Richard) didn't own the company (I know you've got the quotes there). David Forman did, for those that didn't realize this. Forman contracted Miki Cues to build Adam Cues.
I have a serious pool man crush on you, Fred. One of the most informative posters, even since RSB and ASP. Great info in this thread.
LOL!!!
My big regret is that I actually lived in Carlsbad, CA , Richard Helmstetter's home. I tried to get with him to get the missing pieces filled in on his time in Japan:
- Did he have a separate shop for his cues or did he use the same equipment?
- How many Adam Cues did he actually touch?
- What cuemakers did he make blanks for? And was he actually making them?
- What was his role in the Balabushka Series and were there prototypes done before the contract was signed with Josephine Balabushka
Etc.
Unfortunately, his mental capacity was really slipping, and his caregivers were very protective of Helmstetter. And I dragged my feet, quite frankly. My one small window... I let slip away.
You are correct.
If anyone ever bothered to research, they would know that. Dick never was in there running the machines. Japanese workers were.
When I wrote "owned". I meant owned or supervised the operation of manufacturing the Adam and Helstetter cues, not the facility and machinery.
I talked to him several times when I lived in Japan. He once handed me a bunch of cues to sell, if I wanted to. He was giving them to me at rock bottom and told me to charge whatever I could get out of them. I declined. I should have taken him up on it.
http://www.askabilliards.com/a16/The-History-of-Adam/article_info.html
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animatedvmaker
Banned
Is this what the MIT SW Tribute cues look like?
Attachments
That's one model. They make a few diff. wood combos.
animatedvmaker
Banned
I also seen these on a Thailand pool cue website, for around $170 USD.
https://pooltables.co.th/pool-cues/mit-pool-cues/mit-pool-cue-mw2-series
It appears that most of the MIT cues are offered with a Radial pin joint.
Mine is ebony on ebony. Similar to Big Ko’s SW. Or the version that Ching Yang Shun used in the early 2000s.
Freddie that is a very accurate statement. In the industry I am in, very few companies actually make their own products. They do the design and then farm the actuall construction/manufacturing out to a CM (Contract Manufacturer). And every company considers them them their products and they made them.
In cues, I think this question could go two ways.
If I am just giving a cuemaker general visual design guidelines and core playing specs like weight, shaft diameter joint type, etc...then NO I do not think you could say you are the maker of that cue because the core engineering of the cue is unchanged and not your IP.
But say you come up with a design that uses a special material that you designed to core the cue, and you specified the exact method that the different pieces were mated together, or came up with a completely unique joint , something that got into the core mechanical design of the cue and then had Adams or McDermott make that cue for you then definitely you could call that you own cue design that you own. Simple example: if Mike Lambros went to a manufacturer and had them make mass production versions of his cues they would certainly be Lambros cues even if he never did any work on them.
But if were to go to Pete Tascarella and say that I want 50 cues that are 18oz with 12.5mm shafts and 2 or 3 designs of points and inlays, they would be Tascarellas not JFP cues.
I got family I stay with in Taiwan not too far from all the main cue makers. Same city. I can get any cue over there for less than anybody is ever going to buy it online or from a dealer. I can go straight to the factory and buy what is in stock. I go to Taiwan every once in a while. I was there last April. Maybe I will buy a whole batch next time. I almost did last time. I also have a Taiwanese buddy who is a China Aitlines pilot who will fly them straight to Hawaii and deliver them to my house for free. No shipping charges for me.
Taiwan makes some nice cues now. When I lived there years ago you couldn't have given me one.
Timothy Soong on here can get you any cue you want from Taiwan.
Glad to know you can really stick it to us dealers that have cultivated a relationship, and order these dozens at a time.
Anything else you’d like to screw up for us honest folk, while you’re at it?