You think all hockey players can? What if they run 4.6? Are they no longer athletes at that point?
if Pool is a sport, then define "sport'
- Thread starter smashmouth
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You think all hockey players can? What if they run 4.6? Are they no longer athletes at that point?
Really? I am using the way it is traditionally used. Intellect would be activity requiring thought, or the measure thereof. For example with chess, the physical actions like moving your pieces are NOT the measure of the game, nor instrumental in the measure of greatness at that game. The measure of a chess player is solely in the strategic and logical capabilities. While physical endurance and the ability to hold up under competition are certainly involved in chess and could be beneficial, they are not part of the game. On the other hand, a baseball player may think about how they will hit, where they will direct the ball, etc. While this intellectual activity is important to the game and likely a benefit, it is not a requirement. They still have to swing the bat accurately, time the arrival of the ball, move their whole body accurately. In other words, the physical actions *are* the sport.
Does this help clear it up?
KMRUNOUT
If you don't believe golf is a sport, read this about the 1964 U.S.Open:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/general/povich/launch/usopen.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/general/povich/launch/usopen.htm
hmmm
World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) was formally recognized as a sport and allowed into the Asian Games, the second largest sporting event in the world, behind the Olympics. It was also allowed in numerous other world sporting events... too many to list, but you get the point.
When the Int'l Olympic Committe (IOC) was in the process of adding two new sports, the WCBS applied and was formally considered to become an olympic sport. It came in third in voting among the numerous applicants for inclusion to the olympic games and thus did not get added.
So, because the Asian Games, Akita games and a host of other large internationally recognized sporting events, not to mention the OLYMPICS formally recognize and considers billiards a sport, I'm going with their opinion instead of the over-reaching, internet jockey's here on AZB. No offense intended.
CASE CLOSED. Thanks for playing !!!!
World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) was formally recognized as a sport and allowed into the Asian Games, the second largest sporting event in the world, behind the Olympics. It was also allowed in numerous other world sporting events... too many to list, but you get the point.
When the Int'l Olympic Committe (IOC) was in the process of adding two new sports, the WCBS applied and was formally considered to become an olympic sport. It came in third in voting among the numerous applicants for inclusion to the olympic games and thus did not get added.
So, because the Asian Games, Akita games and a host of other large internationally recognized sporting events, not to mention the OLYMPICS formally recognize and considers billiards a sport, I'm going with their opinion instead of the over-reaching, internet jockey's here on AZB. No offense intended.
CASE CLOSED. Thanks for playing !!!!
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I'm not saying all pool players aren't athletes, but it's the exception not the rule.
Do you read your posts? You quoted me after about a speed comparison, not a strength. I said real athletes should have either speed, strength or quickness. Hockey and Soccer players might not be able to bench press 400 pounds but most could probably run a sub 4.5 second 40 yard dash. Hockey is a little different but to compare it to pool is assinine. That sport takes the ultimate speed, hand eye coordination and strenght combination.
Yeah, Larry Allen benched 700 lbs and almost had the world record despite having arms 6 inches longer than the average weight lifter. AND ran a -5.0 40 yd dash but he was a weaker athlete??? Almost all lineman can bench around 500 lbs. and can run -5.5 second 40 yd. dashes so try again. Not to mention their footwork.
At one time they compared an LSU/Tulane game. LSU had over 50 guys that could bench press over 400 lbs. compared to Tulanes 2. LSU had wide receivers who could bench over 400 so we're not just talking about lineman here.
As far as football players dunking, Drew Brees can at 5'11. Most NFL players not severely overweight can dunk so you're way off base here again.
You're just trying to argue now. I never said someone has to run a 4.5 second 40 yard dash to be an athlete or bench 400 lbs. I just said almost NO golf players or pool players can whereas many other athletes in real sports can. I have the utmost respect for what hockey players can do. IMO, it's one of the hardest sports to play because it requires strength, speed, quickness AND hand/eye coordination.
Anyone who has played $1000 races to 15 and been down 14 - 6 and comes back to win knows damn well that pool is not just a game. Why do people have to make classifications for the purpose of denigrating the accomplishments of others? Competitive pool is a sport that requires stamina and nerves and a huge amount of skill to really excel at it.
As Mr. Eberle put it best, those who can't play can't understand why it's a sport. To them pool will always be just a game.
As Mr. Eberle put it best, those who can't play can't understand why it's a sport. To them pool will always be just a game.
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In this case I agree with you. I think it would be a major mistake to say that pro football linemen are not athletes or athletic. While they may not have the highest strength to weight ratio, and in some cases might even be technically "overweight", I think it is silly to say they are not athletic, when they can run fast, are very quick and agile, and strong as all hell. Also, if you think there isn't considerable skill involved in being a pro football lineman, you need to study that game a bit more.
Likewise, the person that suggested that smaller people with high strength to weight ratios are "more athletic" and/or "stronger" than a big huge guy with lots of strength...here is where that contention falls apart: put a top pro lightweight (I don't know the correct terms, but lets say a guy that weighs under 130 lbs but is "really strong lb for lb".) boxer in the ring with a super heavyweight. Who wins? Strength is a measure of available physical power. The guy that can lift more is stronger than the guy that doesn't lift as much. There's just no two ways about that.
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I am not arguing. I am trying to clarify your position. It sure sounded like you were implying that the ability, or rather the *type* of ability, that would contribute to running sub 4.5 sec 40 or bench 400lbs was a requirement in your eyes for something to be considered a sport. I was asking for more clarification. If that for you is arguing, then I guess by your terms I am arguing.
I would have called it discussion. I know a lot of people use the word "argue" to mean a confrontational, not-especially-nice kind of conversation. I think of arguing that way sometimes, but it also means "creating a sequence of statements that logically follows to some conclusion." I think my arguing here falls entirely in the latter category.
Having played hockey for many years, I completely agree with you that it requires a great deal of physical strength, coordination, endurance, and speed. I think a pro hockey player is as much an athlete as anyone, and most certainly hockey is a sport. I would not necessarily say it is "harder" to play than some other sport. All sports played at their highest level involve a huge amount of very specialized skill. My guess is that someone like, say, Wayne Gretzky had a natural aptitude for playing hockey (medium/thin frame, lots of speed and strength, mental discipline, etc.) I don't know that this set of qualities would automatically be a benefit in other sports. For example, I doubt any amount of training would make WG a top tier pro football lineman, or a sumo wrestler, etc. I think hockey is much "easier" for him than those other roles would be. Keep in mind that I think Wayne Gretzky is one of the greatest athletes of all time, so I'm not looking to take anything away from him.
I think our little back and forth here boils down to this: for you it seems that for a game to be a sport, it must require a high degree of physical strength, coordination, speed, and power. It also seems that these skills must be exhibited on a large scale, meaning in large quantities. This makes me wonder about other games I would consider sports: Tennis? Tennis requires that the players be in damn good shape, have high endurance, speed, accuracy, and some degree of physical strength and power. Now...I wonder if Roger Federer can run a 4.5 sec 40...maybe? I am pretty damn sure he can't bench 400. In tennis, you can make up for a lack of speed with exceptional abilities to read the shot, know where the ball is going, very fast reflexes, etc. Thus a pro tennis player might be nowhere near your #'s. I'm curious if you consider them athletic, and if you consider tennis a sport. Again, not arguing, just looking for clarification. Its totally cool if you don't feel like clarifying...that's ok with me. However, to take it a step farther...what about ping pong. Ping Pong basically involves exactly the same skills as tennis. Speed, agility, extreme hand eye coordination, and endurance are all critical to a pro ping pong player. Those guys run all over the place. Is that a sport?
Anyway, just trying to add to the conversation, not ruffle any feathers.
KMRUNOUT
For that matter there are those who would make the case that badminton is the most physically demanding sport of them all. It is actually quite surprising how fast that game really is and how much the players run and exert themselves when playing.
I see a defending of your ideas, but I do not see a definition of the word, 'intellect' nor its parent, 'intelligence'. Since your definition of sport is intrinsic on the definition of 'intellect', I would think long and hard about what the word really means.
It is not an easy word to define, and with some serious thought on the subject you may re-think your basis.
Of course most tennis players are great athletes. Even if they aren't that fast in a 40 yd dash they have tremendous quickness. Many of them have a good vertical jump as well.
Again, I said an athlete should have speed, strength OR quickness. Some of the taller tennis players who just have a big serve aren't nearly as athletic but it's still a very demanding sport.
I hear Nadal only benches like 395 lbs. I guess Tennis isnt a real sport either.
You're not worth debating this with anymore. The word OR doesn't seem to be in your vocabulary.
There are a lot of holes in your criteria for a contest to be considered a sport. So, like many have said...pool IS a sport. If it were said any simplier, it would be on the kiddie menu.
hmmm
Touche' !! Aslo, the sport of Curling gives out medals at the olympics. This might be a sport with less athletic ability than pool or bowling... but none the less it is a sport......
Pool needs strength to hold the cue, need strength to break, and need strength for jump shots and power draw shots. Need extremely good eye/hand coordination mixed with very analytical mind. Chosing the right pattern in 8ball is the difference between winning and losing most times. And lets not even talk about the chess game known as 1P.... my god, there are so many choices, and if you chose the wrong one, you are cooked.
You think there is a reason us AZB'ers can't compete against the pro's and we have been playing for 10, 20, 30 or more years ?? I've played competivie baseball my whole life, (still play today) and know full well baseball is much harder to play than pool, and maybe all sports, but how come I can't be as good as a pool player as a baseball player?? Beats the hell out of me.
And again, the Int'l Olympic Committe (IOC) has determined that pool is a sport....not sure why it should even been up for discussion. :thumbup:
It's also amazing that the so called "real" athletes (baseball, football, hockey, etc.) can't even compare with a pro golfer who only breaks a sweat because the sun is warm. Many pro athletes play and love golf. Heck, Jim McMahon (formers Bears quarterback) played golf during his entire career and that is all he does in his retirement and yet, he still can't make the senior tour?? There is a lot of money in golf, and why don't these fringe baseball players (guys that are backups, or utility players) who make the league minimum not trading in their baseball bats for golf clubs if is so easy to play lower athletic sports ??
Any professional ballet dancer could give any NFL player the 6 and the break when it comes to stamina !!!!
Touche' !! Aslo, the sport of Curling gives out medals at the olympics. This might be a sport with less athletic ability than pool or bowling... but none the less it is a sport......
Pool needs strength to hold the cue, need strength to break, and need strength for jump shots and power draw shots. Need extremely good eye/hand coordination mixed with very analytical mind. Chosing the right pattern in 8ball is the difference between winning and losing most times. And lets not even talk about the chess game known as 1P.... my god, there are so many choices, and if you chose the wrong one, you are cooked.
You think there is a reason us AZB'ers can't compete against the pro's and we have been playing for 10, 20, 30 or more years ?? I've played competivie baseball my whole life, (still play today) and know full well baseball is much harder to play than pool, and maybe all sports, but how come I can't be as good as a pool player as a baseball player?? Beats the hell out of me.
And again, the Int'l Olympic Committe (IOC) has determined that pool is a sport....not sure why it should even been up for discussion. :thumbup:
It's also amazing that the so called "real" athletes (baseball, football, hockey, etc.) can't even compare with a pro golfer who only breaks a sweat because the sun is warm. Many pro athletes play and love golf. Heck, Jim McMahon (formers Bears quarterback) played golf during his entire career and that is all he does in his retirement and yet, he still can't make the senior tour?? There is a lot of money in golf, and why don't these fringe baseball players (guys that are backups, or utility players) who make the league minimum not trading in their baseball bats for golf clubs if is so easy to play lower athletic sports ??
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