Ignorant neophyte questions:

3

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:help:I don't play 3c. I recently hit balls on a heated 3c table at HT, Bellflower, Ca. with very limited success. I'm trying to learn what it is I need to learn to try to play this game respectably. I don't believe I will become a purist. But it is my belief that I should learn all the games possible. Why not be multiple-game challenged?

I played casually 1967-1971. US Army 1967-1970/we played bank 8ball/3 rails or more kick/bank the 8(loooong games). Stopped playing 1971-2000. Started again in 2000. Playing a bit more seriously-not well-but committed to improving.

I play rotation games primarily but enjoy others as well. In part because I like to move the cb around table-a lot. Not always smart-but for me-fun. I like to send the cb 3 rails for shape/safety/2-way protection.

You 3c guys control the cb really well. (Ya think?) If I can learn some of these patterns it will certainly help in all games. It would be nice to learn cb paths that are both fun and predictable.

Some questions:

Can I use my existing cue, at least, to learn?

My cue is about 19.5 oz/linen wrap/wood to wood joint, phenolic collar,non-piloted 5/16-14 brass pin/slightly thick handle and butt/a little rear weighted/BEM.

2 Shaft(s): 13mm/12.75mm. Both have 1 inch aegis ferrules/15-16 inch pro taper/pressed elkmasters with superglued sides/dime radius/fairly dense shaft wood (20-22 growth rings/inch)/solid hit/pleasant feedback, harmonics. 1 shaft has a lot of birdseye-hits a little stiffer.

What do you think? Can I start with this setup? Or do I need a different shaft profile/different hardness tip/tip radius or anything else?

Do most of you use systems/or intuition or both?

Where/how would you suggest I start to learn the game in earnest?

Any and all sugestions are appreciated. I'm almost ready to start this journey. I'm 61-time to get started.

Thank you for your time.

3railkick

PS: I just noticed the thread re Latin 3c patterns-looks pretty intimidating.
 
3rail

you can use your current equipment,it wont be a handicap.just make sure to bridge closer to the cue ball.keep it within 6 inches.this does two things it helps with control and stroke generation.your stroke will become more powerful and smoother.when a shot needs a 10 inch bridge your stroke will be ready.when you practice 3C do all shots with zero english.use nothing but speed and hit.this way you will learn what the shot will let you do.you add english later for the fine tuning.

bill
 
If you play at Hard times it may be possible to ask Mr. Romero upstairs to make you a carom shaft that will fit your existing butt, or you can get a nice mid end production carom cue.

http://pc-billiards.com/carom-cues-longoni-1star-c-1_65.html
http://www.trafficcontrolcaroms.com/stradivarius.html


I started playing with a Meucci with a pro taper, but switched to an Adam made cue.

If you feel comfortable playing with your current cue forget what I said and keep playing with it.


If your close enough to drive to Hard times you may want to visit South Gate billiards in South Gate, Eight ball Billiards in Maywood, and Mi Oficina in Montclair. Lot of players in those billiard rooms to play with and ask questions.

If it were me I would seek out a Teacher, it is worth the money.
 
Hey 3RailKick,

Of all billiard games, three cushion is the most Exciting, Fascinating game to play with. I've played pocket billiards for Ten years and now I'm in love with three cushion. It is a lot more fun than pool, period.

http://www.dreiband-billard.de/eng/
This is an online book of three cushion and all you have to do is click the mouse and it will shows you the Path of the Cue Ball for different shots.
It's a great book to learn the game.

If you're interested in improving your game, then you let me know so I can show you more. It's free of charge by the way hehe, :) Teaching is also learning.

Your shafts are ok if you just want to learn some shots that can help with your pool game. But if you're serious about playing this game, then a Contant Taper shaft is better than a Pro Shaft that you use in Pool.

C U at Hard Times
 
It not about the cue at this point, it about the joy of 3C most 3C players would be happy to show you different shots, etc. First stop www.usba.net. Then Willie Hoppe's book or R.Byrne's book. The best site is Tom Bolton's for diagrams shots, but do a search and there ton of internet info, right here in the Carom Billiard section. Also go to www.professorqball.com to read and subscribe

This site might be of used http://www.tuzulclub.net/verEng.html
 
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I think Robert Byrne's book is the best intro for a beginner, as he covers all the basics of english, rules of the game, all the basic patterns, basic corner 5 and plus system, etc. Pretty much all you need at the beginning in one place
 
Just go buy Byrnes standard and advanced book on pool and billiards and you will have 95% of the information you need to know for less than 30 bucks. 20 if you buy used.

Buy some tapes from accu-stats with Blomdahl or other pros commentating- I think you can get them for 10 bucks now from accu-stats- and you have all you need for a couple of years.
 
3RAILKICK said:
:help:I don't play 3c. I recently hit balls on a heated 3c table at HT, Bellflower, Ca. with very limited success. I'm trying to learn what it is I need to learn to try to play this game respectably. I don't believe I will become a purist. But it is my belief that I should learn all the games possible. Why not be multiple-game challenged?

I played casually 1967-1971. US Army 1967-1970/we played bank 8ball/3 rails or more kick/bank the 8(loooong games). Stopped playing 1971-2000. Started again in 2000. Playing a bit more seriously-not well-but committed to improving.

I play rotation games primarily but enjoy others as well. In part because I like to move the cb around table-a lot. Not always smart-but for me-fun. I like to send the cb 3 rails for shape/safety/2-way protection.

You 3c guys control the cb really well. (Ya think?) If I can learn some of these patterns it will certainly help in all games. It would be nice to learn cb paths that are both fun and predictable.
Click to expand...

Well first of all, 3RAILKICK, we (or I, at least) just want to welcome you into the Carom Billiard section. It's great that people like yourself want to get involved into the most legendary sport man has ever seen. Carom consist of so many games such as: Straight Rail (Freegame), the Balkline disciplines of 47cm and 72cm, Cushion Caroms (or one-cushion as it is coined), and -the most famous - three-cushion billiards. We encourage you to bring more AZers into joining the Carom Billiards section.

I would like to answer some of your questions in the best of my knowledge:

3RAILKICK said:
Can I use my existing cue, at least, to learn? My cue is about 19.5 oz/linen wrap/wood to wood joint, phenolic collar,non-piloted 5/16-14 brass pin/slightly thick handle and butt/a little rear weighted/BEM. What do you think? Can I start with this setup? Or do I need a different shaft profile/different hardness tip/tip radius or anything else?
Click to expand...
As you have already heard from the rest of the other great posts from the other knowlegeable AZers, you can use your own as a start just so long as you get your game going. If one is going to get comitted into playing this game for quite some time, I would strongly suggest to get a carom cue. They hit more sturdy and have a conical shape that provides that stiffness, and the shaft has a wood thread and the butt end is the female section.

As far as the type of tip diameter, 12mm is the norm for three-cushion billiards. The taper can be either conical, Komori, or (Raymond Ceulemans') European Taper. For the smaller games of Freegame and Balkline, it would require somewhere around 11mm - 11.3mm with a conical taper. The tip hardness is more personal preference depending on the player. Some play with Triangle, some play with Moori, others with softer than these. For the smaller games, it is mostly the medium-soft to soft tips for better stability.


3RAILKICK said:
Do most of you use systems/or intuition or both?
Click to expand...
Personally, I use systems. Recently, I come to realize that systems are nothing more than a crutch. Tables vary and that's why systems are not always going to be as reliable as others treat them. As eze123 and Bud Green suggested, I would read Bob Byrne's standard and advanced books. I happen to happily own both of then and they are very informative; BUT, that book is to serve the scenerios. No shot is going to be the EXACT same thing as the book tells you.

3RAILKICK said:
Where/how would you suggest I start to learn the game in earnest?
Click to expand...
Although I do get pretty much a beat-down on this question from my other carom enthusiasts here in the Carom posts (these guys are the greatest... :D) but what I would strongly suggest is to start using one cueball and the red ball and control the red ball wherever you want the red ball to be.
When that is successful, start the use of hitting the red ball and use the opponent's cueball and hit those two with define control (this game is called Freegame). The point of Freegame is to give you a great finness and fine tuning of speed control with -both- your cueball and the object ball (or balls).
The next one can depend: If the owner can give you permission to write on the felt (which most of the time will NEVER happen) you can draw large lines 18 inches (or 47cm in metrics) out of the rails (resembling a pound, #, sign) called balkline. (Ask for more details about this one... if you desire to find more interest in it)
If not, then just go into playing cushion caroms. Cushion caroms is just bascially the requirement of hitting at least one cushion and then hitting both object balls or one ball, (at least) one cushion, and the other ball.

Three-cushion is just the more advanced version of cushion caroms, but require three aspects that merge together: speed of the shot, the proper English, and the hit (or aim) of the cueball to the object ball... or cushion (depends).

3RAILKICK said:
Any and all sugestions are appreciated. I'm almost ready to start this journey. I'm 61-time to get started.
Click to expand...
As C.S. Lewis once put it:

"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream."



--- Slick Rick
 
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Welcome to the 3-cushion game. I want to endorse all the posts that have been made so far. If you follow them, with practice you will make a lot of progress. Also, I teach the 3-cushion game for free at House of Billiards in Santa Monica. If you are interested, please send me a PM and I will give you my contact info.
 
Thanks to all-and more questions



First off-many thanks for the generous responses!

More questions:

Is a dedicated carom cue-primarily about the shaft weight/taper/stiffness? Such that I could have a 'carambola' shaft made to fit my existing butt? Or are there necessary performance characteristics of a carom cue that come only from the threaded wood shaft pin to the female wood theads in the butt?

What is a typical carom cue overall weight? Do I concern myself with butt vs shaft weight distribution? Are there balance point considerations in playability? Are they shorter than pool cues? Should the shaft be stiff in general? Does that promote more ball 'squirt'? Is that desireable? Does one want /need to masse the cb much? Aren't the balls bigger and heavier?

How about wraps? I currently shoot with a wrap since I have some 'slip' in my stroke on certain shots. In 3c does one use a firmer grip in general? I think I have seen some rubber slip-on grips in use-is that to assure a more secure grip on highly elevated-dart tossing type stokes?

Ok Ok. Sorry...I know nothing-I just have a lot of questions.

I just have to get started-then hopefully I will actually have relevant questions.

:eek:One more-how often do you run into punk-ass hot shot kids barking at you to play some 3c? [U]'What ya wanna do ole man?[/U]' Just wondering.

Thanks again

3railkick
 
3RAILKICK said:


First off-many thanks for the generous responses!

More questions:

Is a dedicated carom cue-primarily about the shaft weight/taper/stiffness? Such that I could have a 'carambola' shaft made to fit my existing butt? Or are there necessary performance characteristics of a carom cue that come only from the threaded wood shaft pin to the female wood theads in the butt?

What is a typical carom cue overall weight? Do I concern myself with butt vs shaft weight distribution? Are there balance point considerations in playability? Are they shorter than pool cues? Should the shaft be stiff in general? Does that promote more ball 'squirt'? Is that desireable? Does one want /need to masse the cb much? Aren't the balls bigger and heavier?

How about wraps? I currently shoot with a wrap since I have some 'slip' in my stroke on certain shots. In 3c does one use a firmer grip in general? I think I have seen some rubber slip-on grips in use-is that to assure a more secure grip on highly elevated-dart tossing type stokes?

Ok Ok. Sorry...I know nothing-I just have a lot of questions.

I just have to get started-then hopefully I will actually have relevant questions.

:eek:One more-how often do you run into punk-ass hot shot kids barking at you to play some 3c? [U]'What ya wanna do ole man?[/U]' Just wondering.

Thanks again

3railkick
Click to expand...
This is simply a general statement. As you well know personal preference and style plays an important role in cue selection. For instance I know an older gentleman who plays excellent 3C and has a shaft that's like a spaghetti noodle. About 9mm tip long skinny taper.

But most carom cues are a straight cone from tip to bumper and are weighted toward the rear. Cue weights vary as in pool but a typical weight is 18oz. Mine are in the 15's. Harry Sims used 22.

You may get by with having a carom shaft made for your cue if you want but in many cases the joint diameter of pool cues is smaller than carom so the shaft will end up shorter if its to be a perfect cone. My shafts are a modified European taper, not a straight cone but close.

Wraps are again personal preference. I think the majority are wrapless but many players attach a rubber grip. The grips are supposed to give you more power. Thats debatable I think.

Yes the balls are heavier about 25% and the reason for needing a stiffer shaft.
 
3RAILKICK said:


First off-many thanks for the generous responses!

More questions:

Is a dedicated carom cue-primarily about the shaft weight/taper/stiffness? Such that I could have a 'carambola' shaft made to fit my existing butt? Or are there necessary performance characteristics of a carom cue that come only from the threaded wood shaft pin to the female wood theads in the butt?

What is a typical carom cue overall weight? Do I concern myself with butt vs shaft weight distribution? Are there balance point considerations in playability? Are they shorter than pool cues? Should the shaft be stiff in general? Does that promote more ball 'squirt'? Is that desireable? Does one want /need to masse the cb much? Aren't the balls bigger and heavier?

How about wraps? I currently shoot with a wrap since I have some 'slip' in my stroke on certain shots. In 3c does one use a firmer grip in general? I think I have seen some rubber slip-on grips in use-is that to assure a more secure grip on highly elevated-dart tossing type stokes?

Ok Ok. Sorry...I know nothing-I just have a lot of questions.

I just have to get started-then hopefully I will actually have relevant questions.

:eek:One more-how often do you run into punk-ass hot shot kids barking at you to play some 3c? [U]'What ya wanna do ole man?[/U]' Just wondering.

Thanks again

3railkick
Click to expand...

I don't play 3c. I recently hit balls on a heated 3c table at HT, Bellflower, Ca. with very limited success. I'm trying to learn what it is I need to learn to try to play this game respectably. I don't believe I will become a purist. But it is my belief that I should learn all the games possible. Why not be multiple-game challenged?
I played casually 1967-1971. US Army 1967-1970/we played bank 8ball/3 rails or more kick/bank the 8(loooong games). Stopped playing 1971-2000. Started again in 2000. Playing a bit more seriously-not well-but committed to improving.

I play rotation games primarily but enjoy others as well. In part because I like to move the cb around table-a lot. Not always smart-but for me-fun. I like to send the cb 3 rails for shape/safety/2-way protection.
Click to expand...

Don't get too involve on the myth of carom cues! Look at what Willie Hoppe, A. Gilbert, Bozeman, and other Billiard Great use for Cues. You can listen to the why and why not on cue.

Reading a quota in your first post. The cue you might want is a Schuler Cue. Age have nothing to do with the game. Just watch the 3C final at louisville, Ky
 
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