I'll ask the question here in it's own thread then!

realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Alright, to any mechanic that thinks he understands pocket designs well enough to rate as a "top notch" mechanic, Table-tec AND OTLB in particular, here's a question ANY one is welcome to answer.

Not you MARK GREGORY, we've already talked about this:D

Question: Cory Duel has a Diamond 9ft ProAm, ProCut pockets 4 1/2" corners, 5" sides. He shoots real soft, meaning he don't fire the balls into the pockets, BUT...he wants the pockets to play harder than the Diamonds he plays on in tournaments but don't want the pockets changed from the 4 1/2" ProCut pocket openings, that he wants to be the same.

How would you fulfill his request?

This is what bothers me when you talk about having the "Ultimate" tooling to rebuild rails Rob, do you even understand what makes pockets play differently? How about you John(OTLB) since you seem to think I'm just picking on Rob, because I'm not picking on Rob, I'm just a little bothered that he seems to base his table "Mechanic" abilities on his milling machine, and not his actual abilities to recover pool tables, or understand what makes them play the way they do, because it all goes hand in hand.

Rob, I think you're a great machinist, and would never challenge you on that front, but you spent all that money going to school to become a machinist only to think your calling is being a table mechanic, why? because you've used your milling machine to resurface a few sub-rail bevels? What about the rest of the tables, did you follow up and complete the jobs on your own...or call for back up because you ended up getting into something over your head?

I know what's going on, and I have to say, I'm not really happy with it, stepping on toes is NOT the way to becoming a top notch mechanic...not in my book.

So, answer my question, as I'm not asking you as a machinist, but as a table mechanic;)

Glen

PS. Anyone but Mark can answer the question if they can.
 
well one thing you can do is to add up that glue ridge at the end of the pocket so the ball hangs,

you change so many table specs to your own liking it wouldn't matter what anyone said. Its just like when you ask your question how do you take down a crown. You only do it one way so its the only way. You and Mark should start your own forum. Oh, I forgot, you have one. I have 3 now.

Now as far as your rail ext's go. It will be 3 years since your thread started on that topic and still no video. Are you kidding me. Instead of asking me questions all the time on how to do things why don't you finish what you started first.

There are many ways to do what your asking.


Real problem here is not the table and thats the first thing I would have told Corey.
 
OTLB said:
well one thing you can do is to add up that glue ridge at the end of the pocket so the ball hangs,

you change so many table specs to your own liking it wouldn't matter what anyone said. Its just like when you ask your question how do you take down a crown. You only do it one way so its the only way. You and Mark should start your own forum. Oh, I forgot, you have one. I have 3 now.

Now as far as your rail ext's go. It will be 3 years since your thread started on that topic and still no video. Are you kidding me. Instead of asking me questions all the time on how to do things why don't you finish what you started first.

There are many ways to do what your asking.


Real problem here is not the table and thats the first thing I would have told Corey.
Click to expand...

Your beating arount the bush means you have no idea of the answer!:rolleyes:
 
First off, I call you as a matter of respect. You do have much more experience than me so you are a valuable resource. If you think that my doors will close if my milling machine breaks and you change your number, you are wrong buddy. I was doing subrail extensions 10 years ago on a table saw, just got this mill a year ago with the huge shop. I answered question in original thread, not hard. And... I am working towards become a top mechanic, never had the ego to label myself that. When I was a machinist I was also doing basic table work, never thought they could work together. I should thank you for helping make the connection. The Chicago conference really focused my efforts. Thanks for the time and information.
Rob

realkingcobra said:
Alright, to any mechanic that thinks he understands pocket designs well enough to rate as a "top notch" mechanic, Table-tec AND OTLB in particular, here's a question ANY one is welcome to answer.

Not you MARK GREGORY, we've already talked about this:D

Question: Cory Duel has a Diamond 9ft ProAm, ProCut pockets 4 1/2" corners, 5" sides. He shoots real soft, meaning he don't fire the balls into the pockets, BUT...he wants the pockets to play harder than the Diamonds he plays on in tournaments but don't want the pockets changed from the 4 1/2" ProCut pocket openings, that he wants to be the same.

How would you fulfill his request?

This is what bothers me when you talk about having the "Ultimate" tooling to rebuild rails Rob, do you even understand what makes pockets play differently? How about you John(OTLB) since you seem to think I'm just picking on Rob, because I'm not picking on Rob, I'm just a little bothered that he seems to base his table "Mechanic" abilities on his milling machine, and not his actual abilities to recover pool tables, or understand what makes them play the way they do, because it all goes hand in hand.

Rob, I think you're a great machinist, and would never challenge you on that front, but you spent all that money going to school to become a machinist only to think your calling is being a table mechanic, why? because you've used your milling machine to resurface a few sub-rail bevels? What about the rest of the tables, did you follow up and complete the jobs on your own...or call for back up because you ended up getting into something over your head?

I know what's going on, and I have to say, I'm not really happy with it, stepping on toes is NOT the way to becoming a top notch mechanic...not in my book.

So, answer my question, as I'm not asking you as a machinist, but as a table mechanic;)

Glen

PS. Anyone but Mark can answer the question if they can.
Click to expand...
 
OTLB said:
well one thing you can do is to add up that glue ridge at the end of the pocket so the ball hangs,

you change so many table specs to your own liking it wouldn't matter what anyone said. Its just like when you ask your question how do you take down a crown. You only do it one way so its the only way. You and Mark should start your own forum. Oh, I forgot, you have one. I have 3 now.

Now as far as your rail ext's go. It will be 3 years since your thread started on that topic and still no video. Are you kidding me. Instead of asking me questions all the time on how to do things why don't you finish what you started first.

There are many ways to do what your asking.


Real problem here is not the table and thats the first thing I would have told Corey.
Click to expand...


John, PLEASE...don't bring my name in your on going wars, I didn't ask anything......I don't post pics.....I don't act as if I'm better than anyone. I surely have no need of saying your way is wrong, and my way is right.

I know how to repair any problem I run across everyday......without any phone calls to anyone......have been doing it for 15 yrs. I don't need my own forum.....I don't need to post, and I more than anything don't feel the need to give out info on work.

That's how I make my living....if I tell everyone how to fix tables.....well then who would have me do the work?
Glen and I are friends.....I liked his question he ask of everyone......and yes he asked me.....the only difference is, I answered the question the minute he asked.

I have no need to set you or anyone else up with questions that show your true ability as a table mechanic.

TRY NOT TO GET OF TRACK WITH THE PAST, ANSWER THE QUESTION IF YOU KNOW.
DON'T ANSWER IF YOU DON'T KNOW......NO ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING.....I SURELY DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS.

WHAT I DO HAVE IS EVERY TOOL TO DO EVERY JOB......HAVE A GREAT DAY :grin-square:

BEFORE AND AFTER PICS OF WORK ARE FINE.....NOT STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS!!!!!!!

Mark Gregory
 
Actually Glen brought your name into it, not me, but happy to oblige.

Changing angles slightly on the table won't make any real noticable dif. especially with someone of his abilities. I could though make it harder by simple moistening his rail cloth around the pockets. Easy to do and it will make table play harder.
 
My (non-mechanic) guess

The larger the angle measurement between the cushion "nose" edge and the facing (measured through the cushion), the more difficult the pocket. This adds "flare" to the pocket opening, and makes it easier for balls to bobble out of the pocket. In other words, an angle of 142deg is harder than an angle of 140deg. Smaller angles (meaning the facings are more parallel and less flared) tend to trap the balls instead of reject them.

Also, a smaller (more vertical) drop angle on the facing allows the ball to retain more energy on rebound from the facing, and that would encourage more rejected balls. A larger drop angle (less vertical) would kill more of the ball energy and encourage more drops.

A livelier facing rubber would tend to reject more balls.

Finally, if there is a way to lengthen the shelf depth (probably tough to do), this would also make the pocket more difficult.

You said anyone could attempt an answer. That's mine.
 
Pockets are fine need bigger balls, diameter I mean.

Shaft got it covered some what. a good starting point for a long topic of ideas on yhis one.

Craig
 
tightening pockets for corey duel

well mostly i agree with shaft. but if you dont want to even do anything to the table no matter how simple or how hard to accomplish, i'd just tell corey duel to shoot harder. in fact i might just go play him and show him how its done. talk about ego. gerald
 
Shaft said:
The larger the angle measurement between the cushion "nose" edge and the facing (measured through the cushion), the more difficult the pocket. This adds "flare" to the pocket opening, and makes it easier for balls to bobble out of the pocket. In other words, an angle of 142deg is harder than an angle of 140deg. Smaller angles (meaning the facings are more parallel and less flared) tend to trap the balls instead of reject them.

Also, a smaller (more vertical) drop angle on the facing allows the ball to retain more energy on rebound from the facing, and that would encourage more rejected balls. A larger drop angle (less vertical) would kill more of the ball energy and encourage more drops.

A livelier facing rubber would tend to reject more balls.

Finally, if there is a way to lengthen the shelf depth (probably tough to do), this would also make the pocket more difficult.

You said anyone could attempt an answer. That's mine.
Click to expand...

BINGO!!! We have a winner folks:thumbup: Actually by changing the pocket miters from 141 to 142 will close up the back of the pocket by 1/8" of an inch which isn't that much, but when you change out the 3/16" neoprene facings for 1/8" neoprene ones, then extend the sub-rail by 1/8" inch you'll still be at the 4 1/2" pocket opening, but with the softer facing and a slightly wider angle at the mouth of the pocket you'll end up with the Olhausen rattle effect of rejecting the balls if the speed is not just right, because the unsupported end of the Artemis K55 cushions are soft enough that with the softer facings, they'll compress more when being hit by the object balls, enough so that they'll change the angle of the ball from going into the pocket, to going across the pocket into the opposite facing and rattle out of the pocket.

Changing the slate shelf wouldn't do any good because the rattle of the pocket takes place in the front half of the pocket long before the balls get to the back half where the slate shelf ends, so the effect would be the same on either a Diamond or a Brunswick GC.;)

Glen

PS, you got some green on that answer though!!!!
 
pocket

thats the same thing i was talking about>>...i will try and post a video of the rails I fitted on one of my personal tables to make it play easier but harder in a way...
Everyone that played on it complained about the pockets being to tight and not being abel to pocket balls do to the 4 inch pockets I originally cut on it..so a few years ago I re cut the pockets bigger with different angles. its a combo of diamond and brunswick pockets cuts...I came up with what your talking about making pocket player harder or easier with angles but at the same time kept the slate shelf in mind...I used stiffer facings because I did not want the ball spit across the table 3 rails when these donkeys fires the ball at the pocket and miss... its a 32x64 with new OLD stock superspeed cushions with a custom rail block...
-
see ya then
Rob.M
 
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