Im not a lawyer BUT!!!!!

[liljon]

I too got the call that I have been anticipating from the IPT a couple of hours ago and the 1/3 deal was "told" to me as well with the installment plan in monthly payments after the 1st payment. Im not a lawyer but in MS if you accept payment on a check that is less than the full amount then you are "agreeing to there terms" and they are not abligated to pay you anyway specifically on the full amount owed. By saying this I think that if I cash the 1st installment check then legally they dont have to pay me the remainder as scheduled..... Based on the past two months its very hard for me even as an IPT supporter and player to put much faith into payment arrangements. I have very mixed feelings because a part of me says they are trying but the other part says they are "forced" to make some sort of effort to make things right due to recent players/forum members/lawyers contacting them with a very legitimate case.......
When I read Buzzer (Brian) post earlier I personally "felt" his pain and am in a very similiar boat myself. The money is one issue but the issue that people have told me my whole life that, "pool was a dead end street" and I kept saying that these people "just didnt understand" has bothered me too. When the IPT accepted me I "could not wait" to run out and tell all those people that "I MADE IT" and I always believed in my heart that if I kept playing that I would eventually get more out of it financially and I'd be rewarded for my time...... When Buzzer said he was at an all time low with pool and he had no desire to practice or play that is exactly how I have felt for two months. So much so that I put my cues on southernbilliards.com about two weeks ago "for sale" and put my resume on monster the same week. All I ever wanted to do is play good pool and try to represent it in a more professional manner and the IPT allowed me the opportunity to do both.
Alot of people think this was a "scam" from the word go but I dont believe it. I believe that Kevin thought he could build a model tour that would support the players and sell it "fast" for a profit for himself. Once it was sold I think he thought the buyer would follow his model and his guarantees and we all win. When he saw that this couldnt happen as fast as he thought then he decided he would cut back at everyones expense(even his) and we all have lost. I dont believe he currently has made a dollar and he is stuck too.
Whether I am right or wrong doesnt matter but the whole deal has gotten some of the best players in the world resorting to other things if they are capable of doing so...... Just my thoughts. LJOHN (By the way excuse typos)

 

[jjinfla]

I'm not a lawyer, nor even very smart, but I sure would take it and run because I doubt that the IPT will come back. 2007 has no chance. Bankruptcy is next and the payout might be a lot less. If you hire an attorney he will get 1/3 of whatever you get which might be less than what you get now.

Of course who is to say when installments 2 and 3 will arrive.

In any case it is not an easy decision.

 

[macguy]

I too got the call that I have been anticipating from the IPT a couple of hours ago and the 1/3 deal was "told" to me as well with the installment plan in monthly payments after the 1st payment. Im not a lawyer but in MS if you accept payment on a check that is less than the full amount then you are "agreeing to there terms" and they are not abligated to pay you anyway specifically on the full amount owed. By saying this I think that if I cash the 1st installment check then legally they dont have to pay me the remainder as scheduled..... Based on the past two months its very hard for me even as an IPT supporter and player to put much faith into payment arrangements. I have very mixed feelings because a part of me says they are trying but the other part says they are "forced" to make some sort of effort to make things right due to recent players/forum members/lawyers contacting them with a very legitimate case.......
When I read Buzzer (Brian) post earlier I personally "felt" his pain and am in a very similiar boat myself. The money is one issue but the issue that people have told me my whole life that, "pool was a dead end street" and I kept saying that these people "just didnt understand" has bothered me too. When the IPT accepted me I "could not wait" to run out and tell all those people that "I MADE IT" and I always believed in my heart that if I kept playing that I would eventually get more out of it financially and I'd be rewarded for my time...... When Buzzer said he was at an all time low with pool and he had no desire to practice or play that is exactly how I have felt for two months. So much so that I put my cues on southernbilliards.com about two weeks ago "for sale" and put my resume on monster the same week. All I ever wanted to do is play good pool and try to represent it in a more professional manner and the IPT allowed me the opportunity to do both.
Alot of people think this was a "scam" from the word go but I dont believe it. I believe that Kevin thought he could build a model tour that would support the players and sell it "fast" for a profit for himself. Once it was sold I think he thought the buyer would follow his model and his guarantees and we all win. When he saw that this couldnt happen as fast as he thought then he decided he would cut back at everyones expense(even his) and we all have lost. I dont believe he currently has made a dollar and he is stuck too.
Whether I am right or wrong doesnt matter but the whole deal has gotten some of the best players in the world resorting to other things if they are capable of doing so...... Just my thoughts. LJOHN (By the way excuse typos)

Read my post #7 on this thread.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=45322
He may not lose anything but come out smelling like a rose over time.

 

[Timberly]

I'm not a lawyer, nor even very smart, but I sure would take it and run because I doubt that the IPT will come back. 2007 has no chance. Bankruptcy is next and the payout might be a lot less. If you hire an attorney he will get 1/3 of whatever you get which might be less than what you get now.

Of course who is to say when installments 2 and 3 will arrive.

In any case it is not an easy decision.

This post is why you shouldn't give advice.

FYI, because KT had collected money (qualifiers & memberships) SINCE Reno, he cannot claim bankruptcy. I'd like to see him try because then the players would not only get their money but we'd all be looking at this....

 

[AuntyDan]

All I ever wanted to do is play good pool and try to represent it in a more professional manner and the IPT allowed me the opportunity to do both.

Thanks for your thoughts. Of course we're all Pool fans, or we wouldn't be hanging out here, so we all want the same thing for you and all the other Pros. And being fans we are full of admiration (Not to mention a little jealousy) for your skill, determination and dedication to the sport we all love.

Alot of people think this was a "scam" from the word go but I dont believe it. I believe that Kevin thought he could build a model tour that would support the players and sell it "fast" for a profit for himself. Once it was sold I think he thought the buyer would follow his model and his guarantees and we all win. When he saw that this couldnt happen as fast as he thought then he decided he would cut back at everyones expense(even his) and we all have lost. I dont believe he currently has made a dollar and he is stuck too.

That may well be the case, but I can't show the same sympathy for KT that I can to the players. At the start of all this he publicly stated he didn't care if the IPT made a profit, had far more spare cash than the IPT would cost and was committed to fully financing it regardless for the first few years. Clearly the entire IPT was a fantasy of KTs, a vanity project for his own gratification. He never asked the players or other industry figures (excepting Sigel and Andrews) if they thought the IPT would work. He went out of his way to set his own rules, standards and policies irregardless of convention, precedent and simple business sense.

This was just fine with (mostly) everyone until he apparently decided it wasn't fun after all to lose all that money after less than a year (or simply never had the money in the first place) and that it was perfectly fine to break all those wonderful promises to you and all the other IPT Pros. This is why everyone now has such a bad taste in their mouths.

I wish you the very best of luck in your future career, both on and off the Pool table.

 

[av84fun]

liljon...<<Im not a lawyer but in MS if you accept payment on a check that is less than the full amount then you are "agreeing to there terms" and they are not abligated to pay you anyway specifically on the full amount owed.>>

That is not correct in MS or any other state....UNLESS there is an accompanying contract which can sometimes take the form of an "endorsement legend" on the back of the check. But if it's just a check...and you cash it...there is NO WAY that you are waiving any rights BUT in an abundance of caution, you might write on the back of the check, above your signature...." ALL RIGHTS RESERVED."

 

[Timberly]

I All I ever wanted to do is play good pool and try to represent it in a more professional manner and the IPT allowed me the opportunity to do both.

Jon, I've yet to come across someone that doesn't like you and anyone that I've ever heard talk about you, says how nice you are and what a gentleman you are. You & I don't know each other... we met briefly a couple of yrs ago in Valley Forge at the party. I was enjoying you & Shannon singing. From that one time, I don't know you personally but you conducted yourself quite well and I've never heard anything bad about you.

Alot of people think this was a "scam" from the word go but I dont believe it. I believe that Kevin thought he could build a model tour that would support the players and sell it "fast" for a profit for himself. Once it was sold I think he thought the buyer would follow his model and his guarantees and we all win. When he saw that this couldnt happen as fast as he thought then he decided he would cut back at everyones expense(even his) and we all have lost. I dont believe he currently has made a dollar and he is stuck too.
Whether I am right or wrong doesnt matter but the whole deal has gotten some of the best players in the world resorting to other things if they are capable of doing so...... Just my thoughts. LJOHN (By the way excuse typos)

The part that I've put in bold print... I agree 100%. That's his MO... get rich quick. As with the infomercials, he went in, sold the product, and by the time people figured out the product was a scam, he had already made a nice chunk of change, packed up, left town, and moved onto the next infomercial.

I think the pool thing was a way to make money (so he thought) in between the fall of the natural cures book and the new weight loss book he has coming out. The weight loss book is coming out soon and he's going to make a fortune on it.

I think he's offering to settle for a small sum so that he can close up shop and focus on the weight loss book. If he doesn't settle, he leaves himself open. If he settles with the players, he's DONE with everything pool wise and onto the next get rich quick scheme.

He thought that he could dress you guys up, put you in a nice venue, throw a couple of celebrities in the audience, put his name on it, and sell it quick or at least get big time sponsors. Then he would've made a quick buck and went onto the weight loss book.

The big sponsors didn't come, and no one bought it so now he has to dump it quick because the book is coming soon. Enter this new little settlement deal. You guys take the money, he closes up, you're still broke, and he's off to make millions.

NAIL HIS ASS! Don't let him get off this easy!

The thing that saddens me the most is that there's great players that are so disgusted and beaten down by this that quite a few have quit playing or lost the desire. You guys are too good to quit. You're letting him rob you of what you love to do and what you do well. You're also letting him rob us of the enjoyment we get watching you guys.

Jon, Brian, and the other players (that will remain nameless) that are feeling this way.... DON'T give up. Take the enthusiasm you had for the game a yr ago when you were chosen and put it towards stopping this guy from ripping you off and once you get ALL OF YOUR MONEY, start playing again. Don't let him rob you and us of what we enjoy so much!

 

[av84fun]

Timberly...<<FYI, because KT had collected money (qualifiers & memberships) SINCE Reno, he cannot claim bankruptcy. I'd like to see him try because then the players would not only get their money but we'd all be looking at this....>>

Please know that I am basically "on your side" philosophically, but your comment above is simply not correct. People/companies continue to conduct their businesses up to, including and AFTER filing bankruptcy (under Chapter 11) so there is nothing about the IPT collecting money after Reno that would prevent them from filing.

What you might be thinking of is that fraud (which is by definition an intentional act) is not dischargable in bankruptcy. But PROVING fraudulent intent...as opposed to, say, stupidity, is NOT easy. Ask the credit card companies...which I personally HATE...but ask them about how people run up huge credit card debt in the weeks and months before they file bk.

The credit card companies try to establish fraud on the theory that the creditor never intended to repay but they lose those claims A LOT.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Da Poet]

liljon...<<Im not a lawyer but in MS if you accept payment on a check that is less than the full amount then you are "agreeing to there terms" and they are not abligated to pay you anyway specifically on the full amount owed.>>

That is not correct in MS or any other state....UNLESS there is an accompanying contract which can sometimes take the form of an "endorsement legend" on the back of the check. But if it's just a check...and you cash it...there is NO WAY that you are waiving any rights BUT in an abundance of caution, you might write on the back of the check, above your signature...." ALL RIGHTS RESERVED."

If your not an attorney, or even the attorney representing any of the players, then you have no business giving people such dangerous advice.

I completely respect you as a poster and I know you are a highly intelligent individual, so please don't tell people it's okay to deposit these checks and fully expect to still be able to go after the other 2/3rds. It's not true. But don't take my word for it, consult an attorney.

 

[Timberly]

Timberly...<<FYI, because KT had collected money (qualifiers & memberships) SINCE Reno, he cannot claim bankruptcy. I'd like to see him try because then the players would not only get their money but we'd all be looking at this....>>

Please know that I am basically "on your side" philosophically, but your comment above is simply not correct. People/companies continue to conduct their businesses up to, including and AFTER filing bankruptcy (under Chapter 11) so there is nothing about the IPT collecting money after Reno that would prevent them from filing.

What you might be thinking of is that fraud (which is by definition an intentional act) is not dischargable in bankruptcy. But PROVING fraudulent intent...as opposed to, say, stupidity, is NOT easy. Ask the credit card companies...which I personally HATE...but ask them about how people run up huge credit card debt in the weeks and months before they file bk.

The credit card companies try to establish fraud on the theory that the creditor never intended to repay but they lose those claims A LOT.

Regards,
Jim

I believe this was mentioned under the fraud aspect. I posted the same thing in the other thread... LOL, we're missing each other & playing catch up.

The point of the matter is, it boils down to these guys getting legal advice and sticking together as much as possible. The more the players unite, the better their chances are at a full recovery of the money owed to them.

There's strength in numbers.

 

[shanesinnott]

If your not an attorney, or even the attorney representing any of the players, then you have no business giving people such dangerous advice.

I completely respect you as a poster and I know you are a highly intelligent individual, so please don't tell people it's okay to deposit these checks and fully expect to still be able to go after the other 2/3rds. It's not true. But don't take my word for it, consult an attorney.

IIRC, Jim previously mentioned that he is married/lives with an Attorney so I am guessing he did consult an attorney before giving the advice he did.

 

[Da Poet]

IIRC, Jim previously mentioned that he is married/lives with an Attorney so I am guessing he did consult an attorney before giving the advice he did.

Good, well, then, okay,.... The first time I really come down on someone and look at me now.

It could be as simple as writing "all rights reserved" on the check, but a lot could depend on the language of any memo or stub attached to the check, or any other correspondence included in the envelope with the check.

I'm sure there is a way to cash the check without making it more difficult to try to collect the other 2/3rds, but I think that advice should be given by the attorneys directly involved.

 

[cjgrandprix]

This post is why you shouldn't give advice.

FYI, because KT had collected money (qualifiers & memberships) SINCE Reno, he cannot claim bankruptcy. I'd like to see him try because then the players would not only get their money but we'd all be looking at this....

Wow, that would make him a "3-time felon" instead of a "2-time felon".


CJ

 

[ironman]

I too got the call that I have been anticipating from the IPT a couple of hours ago and the 1/3 deal was "told" to me as well with the installment plan in monthly payments after the 1st payment. Im not a lawyer but in MS if you accept payment on a check that is less than the full amount then you are "agreeing to there terms" and they are not abligated to pay you anyway specifically on the full amount owed. By saying this I think that if I cash the 1st installment check then legally they dont have to pay me the remainder as scheduled..... Based on the past two months its very hard for me even as an IPT supporter and player to put much faith into payment arrangements. I have very mixed feelings because a part of me says they are trying but the other part says they are "forced" to make some sort of effort to make things right due to recent players/forum members/lawyers contacting them with a very legitimate case.......
When I read Buzzer (Brian) post earlier I personally "felt" his pain and am in a very similiar boat myself. The money is one issue but the issue that people have told me my whole life that, "pool was a dead end street" and I kept saying that these people "just didnt understand" has bothered me too. When the IPT accepted me I "could not wait" to run out and tell all those people that "I MADE IT" and I always believed in my heart that if I kept playing that I would eventually get more out of it financially and I'd be rewarded for my time...... When Buzzer said he was at an all time low with pool and he had no desire to practice or play that is exactly how I have felt for two months. So much so that I put my cues on southernbilliards.com about two weeks ago "for sale" and put my resume on monster the same week. All I ever wanted to do is play good pool and try to represent it in a more professional manner and the IPT allowed me the opportunity to do both.
Alot of people think this was a "scam" from the word go but I dont believe it. I believe that Kevin thought he could build a model tour that would support the players and sell it "fast" for a profit for himself. Once it was sold I think he thought the buyer would follow his model and his guarantees and we all win. When he saw that this couldnt happen as fast as he thought then he decided he would cut back at everyones expense(even his) and we all have lost. I dont believe he currently has made a dollar and he is stuck too.
Whether I am right or wrong doesnt matter but the whole deal has gotten some of the best players in the world resorting to other things if they are capable of doing so...... Just my thoughts. LJOHN (By the way excuse typos)

Didn't I meet you at party on S. Padre Island earlier this year????