Image of "pool"

AOyster said:
Thanks for the thoughts. I agree! And as for the previous post "International Cueing Arts Tour" sounds great. Imagine that on headline news.

As for the previous to that...I do drink organic Jasmin "Oyster" Pearl tea (what else right) and the pedicures are every month. Lots of time in between for Cueing Arts.

Tonight is 2003 Darioush Napa Cab. with the racks, tea borders them.

Trying to convince everyone to change from using the word "pool" to the title "Cueing Arts"? Now, why would you want to see this happen? I'm sure your motivation is strictly for the love of the game and it's image. The fact that the name of your school includes "Academy of Cueing Arts" wouldn't have any bearing on your concerns about what we call the sport.
AZ Billiards, Womens Professional Billiards Association, Billiard Congress of America, Billiards Digest Magazine.....If you really want to change the name, I think there is a much more obvious choice.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Trying to convince everyone to change from using the word "pool" to the title "Cueing Arts"? Now, why would you want to see this happen? I'm sure your motivation is strictly for the love of the game and it's image. The fact that the name of your school includes "Academy of Cueing Arts" wouldn't have any bearing on your concerns about what we call the sport.
AZ Billiards, Womens Professional Billiards Association, Billiard Congress of America, Billiards Digest Magazine.....If you really want to change the name, I think there is a much more obvious choice.
Steve

I knew someone would make a point of that. Steve, glad you caught it in time. Hopefully it was way obvious long ago as to my comment on my opinion of the "Cueing Arts", why not! Nothing negative there. My point earlier...Billiards is still much better than "pool", I was merely pointing out an example of where the sport could be. A very high vision of what could be achieved with a healthy change.

Why is "Pool and Billiard magazine including both terms in their name? Is it two different things as the name implies? If so what is the difference?

I believe "pool" origin is late 17th century French "poule" meaning stake or kitty and originally meant for cards with gambling. We should sell the name to the poker tour, it's fits them perfectly.

Now Billiards is late 16th century denoting both the game and the cue, i.e. "cueing" and "art"...application of human creative skill and imagination in visual form appreciated for beauty and/or emotional power.

Billiards is good and very timely accurate and then again the "Cueing Arts" really takes it a step further.
 
I am glad to see you post with some thoughts and experiences on this, but "Cueing Arts?" I don't care for that at all. Way to PC for me. I put this right up there with calling garbage men sanitation engineers.

I have gone back and forth on this for a while. The "nice" term we have had for pool for a long time now is "pocket billiards." I read someplace that this was started by Brunswick for the very reason you mention. It never really seems to have caught on. I think most people are like me in that "pocket billiards" comes off as way to pretentious.

We play pool. A game with a long and rich history. A game filled with gentlemen and scoundrels, saints and sinners. A game known for hustling, but also a game where players are chastised for not calling fouls on themselves. We play pool. To try and change the name for the sake of image is to deny the past. To pretend that some of our greatest heroes like Grady Mathews, Buddy Hall, Kieth McCready, Larry Johnson, Minnesota Fats did not exist for the sake of creating a packaging that is acceptable to "decent folks" would be a travesty. Very few games have the depth of character of pool. Why would we abandon our history? We play pool, and I for one and damn proud of that.
 
AOyster said:
Why is "Pool and Billiard magazine including both terms in their name? Is it two different things as the name implies? If so what is the difference?

Tim...How about because the "billiards" part of P&B Magazine refers to 3-C, or carom billiards. The magazine reports information and statistics from both pool and 3-C. Pool has always been pocket billiards, as has snooker. 3-cushion has always been referred to as just billiards. There's nothing wrong with the name pool:rolleyes: ...what's wrong are the antics and behavior of some players. That's what helps shape (for better or for worse) public perception.

Scott Lee ~ a professional pocket billiard instructor
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Clear time for change!

Scott Lee said:
Tim...How about because the "billiards" part of P&B Magazine refers to 3-C, or carom billiards. The magazine reports information and statistics from both pool and 3-C. Pool has always been pocket billiards, as has snooker. 3-cushion has always been referred to as just billiards. There's nothing wrong with the name pool:rolleyes: ...what's wrong are the antics and behavior of some players. That's what helps shape (for better or for worse) public perception.

Scott Lee ~ a professional pocket billiard instructor
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott,

If you re-read my original post, you might understand my point I was trying to make. There is nothing wrong with the word "pool". I feel it is incorrect as by definition. I didn't create the definition, nor did you. In fact it was a shortcut expression (for lack the understanding the correct term) used in bars where Men way back in the pub era pooled their money in gambling games on a pocket billiard table. It was also easier and shorter to say than Billiards or Pocket Billiards, 2 & 4 syllables vs. 1. America set the word "pool" into action not the original foundation of the game.

We can't change the image of the word overnight, if so it would have been done already. The image to those who don't play look at "pool" in a very nagative way. This is the foundation of my point. It is much easier to change a name than change a history of negativity.

That's what is so difficult to overcome in a single word to the general non-playing public. The majority of all successful sports fans don't participate in actually playing that sport. When you meet someone new, I suspect you introduce yourself as a "professional pocket billiard instructor"...Yes ?? Or do you say I am a pool teacher or I teach pool, etc. etc.

When I used (past tense) the term "pool", many thought I meant swimming or I taught people how to build pools. I always had to elaborate, with the "air stroke". Hope you know what I mean here.

Google search for "pool" = 268,000,000
Google search for "billiards = 17,700,000
Google search for "pool billiards = 1,850,000

The majority of the results for "pool" are not realated to billiards at all, in fact by a percentage, it looks like .007 (less than 1 %)

When you add the correct word billiards you get a more accurate result (over 9 times more results)

This could be part of the problem why "pool" has such confusion as to its real gravity in the general publics eye and the difficulty really explaing very quickly what and how we love this so much. It is not really about just putting the same balls into pockets time after time with a piece of wood. The depth goes way beyond that as we all know and feel.

As quoted by the great Albert Einstein - "Billiards is the well-developed Art of thinking ahead. It is not only a game, but first and foremost a demanding Sport, which requires good stamina, the logical thinking of a chess player and the stable hand of a concert pianist"

Nowhere did he use or infer the word "pool". And clearly he pointed out the word "Art" and thinking. "Good Stamina" refers to good health. And "pianist" yes he refered to a stable hand of precision.

This is clearly not the impression or the image the majority of the world sees and feels when they hear the word "pool" as intended to mean billiards. Times change, that's a great thing. Major companies change their names to reflect a different image all the time, because it works. At & T changes by the sun. Anyone remember who "Bearing Point" was previously? Surely everyone must agree that "pool" today is much different than 2000, 1000, 100, etc... years ago and even much different than even 20 years ago. What happens when the US is completly smoke free in billiard rooms? It will happen, hopefully sooner but the track is clearly in that direction. So what then? When things change for the better, it is always a good idea to reflect that in the name.

"pool" is such a simple word. Just 2 con's and 2 vol's and even the same 2 vol's. Seems a bit elementary to me. I am sure most of us don't look at the game as elementary at all.

Scott, maybe you can say you teach the "art of billiards", doesn't that sound much more accurate and clear as Einstein quoted.

Yes their will be "pool" players who will still fill the negative definition quite well, but for the true reflection of the others, I think it is at least time to consider making a change in the "new" clearer positive direction.
 
We sometimes say, "You wanna go shoot some stick?" How about calling it "stick"?

The name will probably never change. Will those "players" who spit on this game change? I doubt it but I try to help in my little way.

Example: At league the other night, a game is about to start. A player from team B picks that time to accost a player from team A about a year-old $100 bet that was never paid as promised. The whole fun, competitive atmosphere was shot to hell as these two argued about their personal business. The one who reneged on the bet continued the verbal b/s long after the stiffed player left, trying to deflect his dishonesties onto the absent player, as if that would magically make his behavior OK. All the while he claims to be the best player in town...lol. He doesn't even see how his behavior hurts this most beautiful game. It's sad, but his ego won't allow him to look past the cuetip.

As long as so many losers act like this, the game for the rest of us, will suffer. Blame those who start the trouble in the pool world.

Jeff Livingston
 
AOyster said:
As quoted by the great Albert Einstein - "Billiards is the well-developed Art of thinking ahead. It is not only a game, but first and foremost a demanding Sport, which requires good stamina, the logical thinking of a chess player and the stable hand of a concert pianist"

Could you please source this quote? I admire Einstein, and am familiar with his science, politics and religion, but this is the first Einstein/billiards reference I've ever seen. Where, exactly, did it come from?

Good Rolls,
Rasta
 
Rasta I did a search on google of the quote and a mere two results came back... One from a pool related site and the other from a blog quoted this einstein quote. I suspect Einstein never said anything close to that. Although I did find this picture at the blog site that I liked....

zoom%5B1%5D.jpg
 
chefjeff said:
We sometimes say, "You wanna go shoot some stick?" How about calling it "stick"?

The name will probably never change. Will those "players" who spit on this game change? I doubt it but I try to help in my little way.

Example: At league the other night, a game is about to start. A player from team B picks that time to accost a player from team A about a year-old $100 bet that was never paid as promised. The whole fun, competitive atmosphere was shot to hell as these two argued about their personal business. The one who reneged on the bet continued the verbal b/s long after the stiffed player left, trying to deflect his dishonesties onto the absent player, as if that would magically make his behavior OK. All the while he claims to be the best player in town...lol. He doesn't even see how his behavior hurts this most beautiful game. It's sad, but his ego won't allow him to look past the cuetip.

As long as so many losers act like this, the game for the rest of us, will suffer. Blame those who start the trouble in the pool world.

Jeff Livingston

Jeff,
Perfectly said!

Last time I checked Gambling was illegal! It is just never enforced. We should be learning from that and changing. J. Chen's example too!
 
Einstein Quote

Rasta said:
Could you please source this quote? I admire Einstein, and am familiar with his science, politics and religion, but this is the first Einstein/billiards reference I've ever seen. Where, exactly, did it come from?

Good Rolls,
Rasta

I remember reading this a while back but couldn't remember the exact words. So last night I sit down to read this months "Pool" and Billiard magazine and on page 6 Shari's (Editor's Desk) headline...Even Einstein Thought "Pool" was cool! next line is the Quote.

I didn't see the word "pool" used by Einstein anywhere here and yet the implication is clear in the title of this.

Last line of the article is "Together, I just know we can make Albert proud" Not if we keep calling it "pool" we won't.
 
IMO, I think one of the best ways to build up pool is to have tournies that allow women to play against the men. I know that alot of die hard pool players and fans may frown on this (for whatever reason), but we are trying to increase popularity with the general public. The WPBA has a huge televised following and alot of people want to watch the ladies play. If promoted correctly, I think it could help drive the pool industry to a higher level. Maybe even a televised 8 ball tourney....kinda like the IPT (w/out KT). And, no other sport does this.

Southpaw
 
How about we change the Derby City Classic to the Derby City Cueing Arts Gala!

There will be NO gambling! You must wear suit and tie! No foul language to include the use of the foulest of them all......!!!! POOL! I feel dirty even typing that heinous word!

When I was in the military one of the things that really irritated me is people thinking that changing a name somehow resolved any issue associated with said name. First there was the messhall, then you had chowhall, now it's DINING FACILITY! Oh it's so prim & proper. How nice.

Changing pool to cueing arts is the newest wussification I've heard recently and it makes me nauseous.
 
AOyster said:
I remember reading this a while back but couldn't remember the exact words. So last night I sit down to read this months "Pool" and Billiard magazine and on page 6 Shari's (Editor's Desk) headline...Even Einstein Thought "Pool" was cool! next line is the Quote.

I didn't see the word "pool" used by Einstein anywhere here and yet the implication is clear in the title of this.

Last line of the article is "Together, I just know we can make Albert proud" Not if we keep calling it "pool" we won't.

Did they source it? I only ask because it doesn't really seem to be Einstein's style, and I've not ever read anything linking Einstein to billiards. Billiards is not mentioned in the index of his biography, and I don't recall reading about billiards within the text, though it has been a while since I read it. While I don't disagree with the quote, I suspect it has been misattributed.

Good Rolls,
Rasta
 
DeadPoked said:
How about we change the Derby City Classic to the Derby City Cueing Arts Gala!

There will be NO gambling! You must wear suit and tie! No foul language to include the use of the foulest of them all......!!!!

Exactly! Sounds great! Some more good advice from this post has surfaced. Not sure about "Gala" but if you want it go for it.

Now we are getting somewhere.
 
Rasta said:
Did they source it? I only ask because it doesn't really seem to be Einstein's style, and I've not ever read anything linking Einstein to billiards. Billiards is not mentioned in the index of his biography, and I don't recall reading about billiards within the text, though it has been a while since I read it. While I don't disagree with the quote, I suspect it has been misattributed.

Good Rolls,
Rasta

Rasta...Einstein was a pool FREAK! He wrote a thesis on billiards, called the Receding Spheres Theory...IIRC it was in 1918. It dealt with the relationship between the CB and the OB. Einstein figured out that on a 9' table, there are six million shots and angles. The interesting thing was that out of six milliion, only six went into a pocket. Learn those six shots, and you could master pool.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Grins

I can appreciate your sense of trying to uplift Pool, but I am afraid that if I said, "I am a professional participant in the Cueing Arts for monetary gain",
that I would get one of 3 answers:

"Huh"
"You mean you play Pool for money?"
or "Well, la-te-dah"

But I would be willing to give it a try ..... LOL :D :D :D
(after all, Maintenance Engineer sounds much better than Janiter)
 
Scott Lee said:
Rasta...Einstein was a pool FREAK! He wrote a thesis on billiards, called the Receding Spheres Theory...IIRC it was in 1918. It dealt with the relationship between the CB and the OB. Einstein figured out that on a 9' table, there are six million shots and angles. The interesting thing was that out of six milliion, only six went into a pocket. Learn those six shots, and you could master pool.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I can't find any references to this paper. Can you link to the paper, a book containing the paper, or an article mentioning the paper? I have to admit, I'm skeptical.

Good Rolls,
Rasta
 
It is what it is...

AOyster said:
There is nothing wrong with the word "pool". I feel it is incorrect as by definition. I didn't create the definition, nor did you. In fact it was a shortcut expression (for lack the understanding the correct term) used in bars where Men way back in the pub era pooled their money in gambling games on a pocket billiard table. It was also easier and shorter to say than Billiards or Pocket Billiards, 2 & 4 syllables vs. 1. America set the word "pool" into action not the original foundation of the game.

Trust me, no one knows this except for billiard historians, and the afficionados of the game who happened to read it in a billiard publication.

The general public? The people who are supposedly going to be enlightened by the whitewash? They have no clue where the word originated, and they don't care. In over 30 years, I have never had to explain what I meant by "pool". Context is everything, and people are not as ignorant as you assume them to be. A simple, unpretentious phrase such as "I'm going to play pool" works every time. Of course, if you are going to run around using lofty, stilted, carefully fabricated terminology such as "Cueing Arts", I understand totally why no one knows what you're talking about.

By your own admission, (and my estimation) it takes about 15 minutes to explain to almost anyone what 'Cueing Arts" means, while "pool" takes a quick hand gesture. And likely as not, that's only necessary because of the way you introduce it. What do you say, "I do pool."?

Ken
 
You Choose...

Slider said:
Trust me, no one knows this except for billiard historians, and the afficionados of the game who happened to read it in a billiard publication.

The general public? The people who are supposedly going to be enlightened by the whitewash? They have no clue where the word originated, and they don't care. In over 30 years, I have never had to explain what I meant by "pool". Context is everything, and people are not as ignorant as you assume them to be. A simple, unpretentious phrase such as "I'm going to play pool" works every time. Of course, if you are going to run around using lofty, stilted, carefully fabricated terminology such as "Cueing Arts", I understand totally why no one knows what you're talking about.

By your own admission, (and my estimation) it takes about 15 minutes to explain to almost anyone what 'Cueing Arts" means, while "pool" takes a quick hand gesture. And likely as not, that's only necessary because of the way you introduce it. What do you say, "I do pool."?

Ken

A 100% OPEN MIND IS PRICELESS!

A 100% POSITIVE OUTLOOK IS RARE!

A 100% ELIMINATION OF THE NEGATIVE IN "POOL" IS 100% NECESSARY FOR THE SPORT IF ANYONE EVER WANTS THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO SEE IT AS A POSITIVE LIGHT!

"POOL" = NEGATIVE
"CUEING ARTS" = POSITIVE

YOU CHOOSE....
 
AOyster said:
A 100% OPEN MIND IS PRICELESS!

A 100% POSITIVE OUTLOOK IS RARE!

A 100% ELIMINATION OF THE NEGATIVE IN "POOL" IS 100% NECESSARY FOR THE SPORT IF ANYONE EVER WANTS THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO SEE IT AS A POSITIVE LIGHT!

"POOL" = NEGATIVE
"CUEING ARTS" = POSITIVE

YOU CHOOSE....

I choose "pool," even with all the negatives it posseses. Its positives outweigh the negatives.

Why? One thing I've learned in marketing is to use words a 13 year old can understand. Especially at the beginning of a conversation with a prospect. If I use words that have meaning to ME, but not to the prospect, the prospect's mind wanders away from my message and I've lost them.

I know you have an interesting way of talking to people about what you do. That's fine and dandy and I appreciated the way you do it. But to expect the pool world to adopt your style is hopeful, at best.

Prospect: "What do you do when you're not working?"

Pool player: "I play pool every week with other people like me who like to have fun for a couple of hours, socialize, not sweat, and maybe even make some money once in a while."

Or, talking to a hotel clerk, eg..."Hi. I'm looking for someone to play pool with. Do you know anyone who is pretty good and would like to play a game or two tonight?"

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston
 
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