Improving your game

[obclassicut]

Which of the following is a better form of practice and by how much? 1. shooting (practicing) certain shots repeatedly during practice time . ex ( follow one day, draw the next, then banks, then thin cuts, etc) 2. playing the ghost repeatedly during practice time and never work on a specific shot consecutively. 3. mix both 1 and 2. Thanks for any input.

I pick 3 but with more emphasis on 1, working on one shot over and over is tiresome but i see why it could affect a players game in a positive way :grin-square:

 

[Snapshot9]

Practicing

I have played 50 years, so I don't practice what I can do, I practice what I have doubts about. I shoot a few shots in just to get a feel, and then I practice almost entirely on banking. I have always felt when my banking is tuned up, then I am on my stick.

 

[ENGLISH!]

As my signature says, I have been playing & with english for 46 years. I usually play both sides of the game whether it be 8 ball or 9 ball, used to even do 1 pocket. I think that gives you a well rounded practice including the mental side & even safeties & 2 way shots. I only work on a specific if something popped up in my game that I did not like such as maybe missing a certain type of shot or something. I'm not a fan of doing alot of drills. I'd rather be mentaly engaged in a game type situation of shooting a different shot next rather than a repeat. In other sports there are great practice players that never seem to get it done in a real game. Id rather be a gamer than a practice player.

Just my nickels worth,

 

[Ghosst]

Which of the following is a better ...

There have been some longish threads on this and you'll never find an answer that will fit you perfectly. Some pros do drills, some don't. Some practice, some just fill the pockets. In the end, I'm more a fan of a structured practice routine; I don't have ADD so I don't get bored with learning. I can repeat the same drills until I get them perfect. You, on the other hand, may not have that same patience.

What's important is what you take from your practice. I don't perform drills thinking that exact situation will come up in a game, but to learn the concept it teaches and then apply it to a real world situation. If you just mindlessly plug away at anything you won't get much useful information from it.

Short answer:

I do the IPAT Drills, followed by 5-10 racks of Fargo. I record my scores, find the low ones, and work on those the next time.



.

 

[EagleMan]

Which of the following is a better form of practice and by how much? 1. shooting (practicing) certain shots repeatedly during practice time . ex ( follow one day, draw the next, then banks, then thin cuts, etc) 2. playing the ghost repeatedly during practice time and never work on a specific shot consecutively. 3. mix both 1 and 2. Thanks for any input.

I pick 3 but with more emphasis on 1, working on one shot over and over is tiresome but i see why it could affect a players game in a positive way :grin-square:

True FACT. Amateurs practice a shot until they can make it. Pros practice it until they can't miss it. I don't KNOW this but have heard that if Jeannette Lee missed a shot in practice...she would shoot it until she made it 200 times in a row.

That may not be true...but it's on the right track.

But for most mortals who simply do NOT have the passion leading to the otherwordly mental focus and stamina that the champions have...then I think that mixing up drills..."hardets/most missed" shots and playing the Ghost is fine.

But FOR SURE...no matter what kind of practice you engage in, you need to focus on basic mechanics ABOVE ALL ELSE.

I would certainly focus a LOT on long stop shots...with the CB on the head string and the OB on the 1st diamond below the side pocket half the time and the 2nd diamond below the side the other half....STRAIGHT in.

What you want is DEAD STOP....ZERO SPIN on the CB after impact.

Finish your stroke in EXACTLY the same position...every time.

Vary the pace of the shots.

If you're plugging those shots in...say 18 of of 20 and making the CB DEAD STOP...NO perceptible spin 16 times then you are well on your way to:

1. A repeatable stroke
2. ACCURACY of tip-CB contact (the only way to get dead stop on the CB)

There are a zillion excellent drills and I'm not suggesting that this is THE best...but....

A. You're going to get that shot practically every time you play for real.

B. It "reports to you" whether you have a repeatable stroke (aim isn't a cause of misses so if you do miss...it is due to mechanics or loss of concentration.)

C. It "reports to you" if your tip-CB delivery is PRECISE....or not.

(-:

EagleMan

 

[obclassicut]

True FACT. Amateurs practice a shot until they can make it. Pros practice it until they can't miss it. I don't KNOW this but have heard that if Jeannette Lee missed a shot in practice...she would shoot it until she made it 200 times in a row.

That may not be true...but it's on the right track.

But for most mortals who simply do NOT have the passion leading to the otherwordly mental focus and stamina that the champions have...then I think that mixing up drills..."hardets/most missed" shots and playing the Ghost is fine.

But FOR SURE...no matter what kind of practice you engage in, you need to focus on basic mechanics ABOVE ALL ELSE.

I would certainly focus a LOT on long stop shots...with the CB on the head string and the OB on the 1st diamond below the side pocket half the time and the 2nd diamond below the side the other half....STRAIGHT in.

What you want is DEAD STOP....ZERO SPIN on the CB after impact.

Finish your stroke in EXACTLY the same position...every time.

Vary the pace of the shots.

If you're plugging those shots in...say 18 of of 20 and making the CB DEAD STOP...NO perceptible spin 16 times then you are well on your way to:

1. A repeatable stroke
2. ACCURACY of tip-CB contact (the only way to get dead stop on the CB)

There are a zillion excellent drills and I'm not suggesting that this is THE best...but....

A. You're going to get that shot practically every time you play for real.

B. It "reports to you" whether you have a repeatable stroke (aim isn't a cause of misses so if you do miss...it is due to mechanics or loss of concentration.)

C. It "reports to you" if your tip-CB delivery is PRECISE....or not.

(-:

EagleMan

That is a good shot to see if you have a consistent stroke, no doubt. Drawing back a few feet in a perfectly straight line from the length of the table is also a good stroke tester. ( also you would be losing focus not concentration due to a miss)

 

[duckie]

Practice what you miss.
Learn to know why you missed.
Playing the ghost is waste of time. You need to play real people.
Practice 14.1
Practice going 2 rails to hit a object ball.
Watch other players
Pracitice combos and caroms

However, none of this matter if you don't put in quality effort over long periods of time.
There is no subsitute for being at the table and going "I wonder what happens if I do this"

Practice also means experimenting,trying different things. As example, I'm right handed,meaning by left foot is forward in my stance. There are certain shooting postions that my left leg against the table,making getting into a comfy stance hard. Well, I started praciting shooting goofy foot, meaning instead of my left leg forward, I shoot with my right foot forward and still shoot right handed and I can pocket balls shooting this way with no issues.

 

[JoeW]

Play the four ball ghost a race to ten. If you win six games, play the five ball ghost, etc. If you lose the match (the Ghost wins six) you must back up and play the three ball ghost. The goal is to beat the 15 ball Ghost 10 - 0 on a regular basis. That would make you competitive with Efren.

Whenever you miss you must play that shot (with the intended position) until you never miss it again. When you have mastered the shot move to the next game. Practicing the missed shot until I make it with confidence has taught me a lot about my usual abilities. In a match with the Ghost I have learned there are shots I like but should not play because I too often miss.

I like this type of practice for several reasons.

There is a lot of tension, I want to play the next version of the ghost and do not want to back up.

I play some of my best pool with a high level of concentration because I want to win!

There is no “opponent” to distract me in any of several ways.

I find that through playing the Ghost I learn about my usual shots and my usual weaknesses. These are the things I should be concentrating on.

By the end of and hour or so (I am 69 years old) I am tired and feel like I have accomplished something.

And its lots of fun.

If I have recently learned something new, such as two or three rail kicks, I try to incorporate it into my game. It is surprising to me that some of the stuff I go and learn I really don't use too much.

When I know I can't make the next shot because of bad position, I try to play the Ghost safe. This doesn't happen too often as I am too aggressive in this practice mode.


To learn more about safety play I like 15 ball rotation or “Chicago” against a real opponent.

So I play the Ghost and really I am playing my self and my last best accomplishment to see if I can do better this time.

A side benefit is I know about how many balls I can run with ball in hand in a rotation game during any given week. This means I have a pretty good handle on my speed and what I can expect in "live" competition.

 

[JoeW]

Another side benefit to playing the Ghost as described above is that I can see my self make progress (or lose ability) as I incorporate different ideas into my game. For instance if I read about a new technique for aiming I try it out until I think I have learned it. Then I play the Ghost at my current ball count. Some times I move up a few balls and then make the new technique a part of my routine. Other times, I have actually gotten worse and therefore discard the idea or try to learn what I missed.

There are many advantages to playing the Ghost on a regular basis. Sure I do other things but the mainstay for my practice, learning, and evaluating different things is playing the Ghost.

Moving up or down based on your winning percentages is an idea that comes from Bob Jewett. It also leads to real competition (for me) with "rewards" and "punishments" for your playing style. It makes the "match" go faster and thus is lots of fun for solitary play.

 

[Scott Lee]

obclassicut...You first have to define the difference between "disciplinced practice" and "practicing playing". Most posters here mistake practicing playing for real practice...which it is not (playing the ghost is not practice...it is practicing playing). For disciplined practice to have the greatest benefit, you have to apply several principles...1) know what you wish to practice, what you can achieve by practicing it, and have a way to measure your results (you can't fix what you can't measure); 2) practice your process, paying specific attention to doing the same thing, the same way, on every shot (make sure the last thing you do is get the tip close to the CB, and stop...before starting your final backswing); 3) practice things that are not too easy, not too hard, and don't take too long (shooting the same shot 200+ times wastes time and effort...you can get more and better feedback, with disciplined practice of maybe 10-20 reps). Lastly, you should always finish up a disciplined practice session with some free play...meaning playing the ghost, an opponent, or just throwing balls out and trying to run them off. So, I would vote for #3, as well! Good luck with your routine. It should only be an hour or two. Of course, you can practice playing 24 hours a day, if you want...but it may or may not result in significant improvement overall.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[lastdimetaker]

When I practice I am looking for feedback.. I am very specific about what I am practicing. My mind is very focused On improving A certain aspect Of my game. I do a lot of repetition shots I also practice with my bridge
left handed, jump shots , Jacked up over a ball. Playing the ghost in my opinion is not practice. It is a form of play. I like to use the ghost As a transition To play. When I'm playing I don't want to think I just want My training to kick in. Sometimes when I practice and then go straight to playing my game will suffer because I over think my shots. Practice your weaknesses.
My performance in battle Is a reflection of Howard I train.

 

[obclassicut]

obclassicut...You first have to define the difference between "disciplinced practice" and "practicing playing". Most posters here mistake practicing playing for real practice...which it is not (playing the ghost is not practice...it is practicing playing). For disciplined practice to have the greatest benefit, you have to apply several principles...1) know what you wish to practice, what you can achieve by practicing it, and have a way to measure your results (you can't fix what you can't measure); 2) practice your process, paying specific attention to doing the same thing, the same way, on every shot (make sure the last thing you do is get the tip close to the CB, and stop...before starting your final backswing); 3) practice things that are not too easy, not too hard, and don't take too long (shooting the same shot 200+ times wastes time and effort...you can get more and better feedback, with disciplined practice of maybe 10-20 reps). Lastly, you should always finish up a disciplined practice session with some free play...meaning playing the ghost, an opponent, or just throwing balls out and trying to run them off. So, I would vote for #3, as well! Good luck with your routine. It should only be an hour or two. Of course, you can practice playing 24 hours a day, if you want...but it may or may not result in significant improvement overall.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks man, nice input:thumbup:

 

[randyg]

Which of the following is a better form of practice and by how much? 1. shooting (practicing) certain shots repeatedly during practice time . ex ( follow one day, draw the next, then banks, then thin cuts, etc) 2. playing the ghost repeatedly during practice time and never work on a specific shot consecutively. 3. mix both 1 and 2. Thanks for any input.

I pick 3 but with more emphasis on 1, working on one shot over and over is tiresome but i see why it could affect a players game in a positive way :grin-square:

First Let's define "practice".

"Practice is a Repeatable drill with Specific goals and a Measurable way of recording Results."

Practice Routines should stay in the 20 minute range. (Some players can't even go that long while other players can make it about 30 minutes.)

Practice Routines can be broke down into many sub-chapters, many of which will fall into either Physical or Mental.

One day I might work on my Stroke Drills and another day my 3 Pre-Shot Routines. Once my stroke has becomes sub-conscious then I can work on more skills like: Kicking, Banking, Stop Shots & Tangent Line etc.

I like your #1 choice.

Happy New Year
randyg

 

[Tommy-D]

I look at it like this.

Just throwing balls out and running out or actually racking the balls and playing the ghost to me is just "hitting balls". If I go out to play,and there isn't an actual opponent,this is what I'm doing.

Sure,it LOOKS like I'm practicing,but I'm not.

I consider practice to be something along the lines of what I used to do in the poolroom when I knew no one would be around for a few hours,which is an expanded version of the Kinister 60 Min Workout,using a paper target and 10-15 repetitions of each shot,combined with his Shotmaker's Workout,also using the paper target. I also made my own copy of the Porper Aim Trainer and used it some.

This is NOT something I did back then if there were other players around,for a couple reasons.

One,if I did this in a packed poolroom,it would draw unwanted attention in the form of idiots just looking to nitpick me,or someone asking to join me thinking it's something I'm doing just for fun,neither of which I had time for.

It could also make me a target if a non-regular came in looking to play. They could see me putting the cue ball in a 6" circle regularly,and walk away because I'm not helpless,or I could be hitting them bad and make me look like a mark.

Now,in a big enough place like JOB's for example,I wouldn't hesitate to do it because you can always find a table where there isn't a whole lot of walk by traffic.

The bottom line is,productive practice always has a specific goal in mind,and a way to measure your progress.

These days,what I need to get back to 100% capability is the hardest thing for me to find,a big enough bankroll to go looking for tough,even action.Tommy D.

 

[gpeezy]

all of the above. I say practice like you mean it. Learn a pre shot routine and use it until it comes natural. Also learn what a pre shot routine is.

 

[EagleMan]

That is a good shot to see if you have a consistent stroke, no doubt. Drawing back a few feet in a perfectly straight line from the length of the table is also a good stroke tester. ( also you would be losing focus not concentration due to a miss)

Agreed on the straight back draw. But "focus" and "concentrate" are synonymous. (-:


Focus
2

not divided or scattered among several areas of interest or concern <a focused effort to provide shelter for the homeless during the winter>
Synonyms all, concentrated, entire, exclusive, focused (also focussed), undivided.

(Webster)

(-:

EagleMan

 

[obclassicut]

Agreed on the straight back draw. But "focus" and "concentrate" are synonymous. (-:


Focus
2

not divided or scattered among several areas of interest or concern <a focused effort to provide shelter for the homeless during the winter>
Synonyms all, concentrated, entire, exclusive, focused (also focussed), undivided.

(Webster)

(-:

EagleMan

I don't think you can automatically concentrate harder on something, to be able to concentrate harder you have to improve your game which doesnt happen before you take a single shot. the better you are the better your concentration. focus on the other hand can be improved from one shot to the next.
"concentration is not the same thing as focus" Bob Fancher Ph. D.

 

[Hector3cushion]

practice routine

Agree it depends on personality. This is my practice routine:
1) 2 racks of straight pool. working on staying still until cue ball stops (very hard to do). Requires a lot of patience and willpower. teaches to stay down even when you miss. Tony Robles told me about this drill.

2) straight in shot 1 rack - 15 balls. several variations.
2.1 First started with object ball 1 diamond from corner pocket. cue ball close to head spot. stop cue ball. grab another ball say the 3 and shoot with the 3 and stop it. so on
2.2 object ball near side pocket, cue ball 1 diamond from short rail straight in. draw cue ball to short rail.
2.3 object ball one diamond past side pocket. then same as 2.2
2.4 object ball 2 diamonds past side pocket. then same as 2.2
objective of practice on 2) is to work on lining up and developing a more consistent stroke
3) Optional drill - sometimes the L drill; sometimes; the Kurst drill; sometimes 9 ball shape drill (looking at 3 balls and getting the right side shape; etc) sometimes draw length drill.

Personally i use these guidelines for practice:
1) practice time is 45 minutes to a bit over an hour. If concentration is high (rare) i practice longer. Ideally i would like to practice daily, reality 2 or 3 times a week, sometimes none.
2) practice first thing when fresh, before playing any games
3) no conversations or other distractions
4) write down noteworthy items i.e. things i found about MY stroke and corrections. not shooting low enough. slight body jumping (i know i'm jumping but it is so subtle people watching can't tell). Shooting too hard. shooting too soft. short follow through, stance too high or too low. slight moving the cue tip to the right right at the cue ball, etc.

Have I noticed improvements? Yes. to the point where sometimes i question how i used to make any shots before, which doesn't quite make sense because wouldn't i think the same thing in the future?

I noticed i can do things much better than before. my consistency has increased (hard to quantify). So it's not where i want to be but better than before. Many people think i'm wasting my time but most are nonplayers so their advice is pretty much useless.

So far it has worked for me. slowly,painfully but surely.

 

[JoeW]

To Improve your game it depends upon what you need. I think this requires an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses. There are two lists that are needed.

One list is about fundamentals including such things as a reliable PSR, ball pocketing skills, ability to play position, and banking skills. Fundamental skills can and should be practiced with drills. How long does it take to develop a reliable PSR? Six months should be sufficient. Periodically these fundamental skills need to be maintained when the player notices that their skills are deteriorating.

The second list might be called a pool playing aptitude. It would include such things as your strengths and weaknesses with regard to competitive anxiety, mental concentration, and table analysis. These skills or abilities fluctuate over time and depend on many different conditions. Table analysis is closer to a fundamental skill, similar to riding a bike once learned it does not deteriorate.

Playing pool is about finesse, subtle shifts in mental state, confidence, ability to sustain concentration, and self discipline are the areas that need constant attention or they deteriorate. The assessment and training of these functions need to be addressed under playing conditions. However, playing conditions with a “real” opponent leads to all of the complications that affect one's game. What is needed is a system that emulates playing conditions and one in which the usual complications and weaknesses can emerge. Playing the Ghost allows for this type of mental practice if it is set up in a competitive paradigm. One of the primary advantages when playing the Ghost lies in the idea that one can determine their own weaknesses and immediately address the issue at the table.

Drills are appropriate for the new player. The intermediate player needs to determine their weaknesses under playing conditions so they know what to practice. For instance, how well do you play shots down the rail? How well do you play these shots with draw and how well with follow? How about follow using two rails for position when the object ball is on the rail. How important are these shots to your game? That is how often do they come up in your style of play? The player needs the answers to these questions to determine what they should practice for improvement. For some players these types of shots may not be an issue. I suspect that many intermediate players do not even know how often these shots come up in a game.

Playing the Ghost allows one to see situations that are very similar to real game conditions and to address any weaknesses immediately. This is something that cannot be done with a real opponent. We just do not have the concept of a Mulligan when playing pool (that would be a do over for those who do not play golf).

Drills are fine for new players and to brush up one's skills for intermediate players. Players need to analyze their real game for subtle shifts and they need to address their weaknesses immediately. Play the Ghost in a competitive enjoyable format and find those subtle shifts in your game.

You need to know what you need to practice

 

[naji]

Which of the following is a better form of practice and by how much? 1. shooting (practicing) certain shots repeatedly during practice time . ex ( follow one day, draw the next, then banks, then thin cuts, etc) 2. playing the ghost repeatedly during practice time and never work on a specific shot consecutively. 3. mix both 1 and 2. Thanks for any input.

I pick 3 but with more emphasis on 1, working on one shot over and over is tiresome but i see why it could affect a players game in a positive way :grin-square:

I apologize if you are expert in advance, my best advise for you is

1. Shoot long straight shots (CB at least 4 or 5 diamonds from OB, OB 4 diamonds from pocket) with no english rolling cue ball, slow,medium, and hard speed until OB go where intended within the pocket (same shot setup for all shots). when happy move on

2. Do same as item 1 for say 30 degree angle shot

I call 1 & 2 calibration to your stroke


3. learn your cue on long shots with all kind of english, very slow, slow, fast, medium speed, stun, role, draw, tips of english, elevated, different bridge length, different butt hand, different distance between CB & OB , and OB and pocket. Do the same on different cloth tables.

Item # 3 could add up to 4000 shots possibilities, when mastered you will be close to A+ rating (A++++ is pro level)


3. Shoot random long distance to medium distance shots, applying knowledge from above

Good luck