People who play by feel still have a system to aim, they just don't conciously acknowledge it. There is a difference in playing by feel and playing completely by memory. I play by memory when I am out of stroke and not concentrating. I aim at the OB the way I remember is the right spot but I can't really 'see or feel' what I am aiming at, and as a result I miss the shot half of the time. When In stroke I play by feel, but this is a combination of memory, concious aiming, and feel. This is when my game is at it's best. The strange thing about me when I am in stroke is that my aiming is done backwards, I don't know why. I visualize a line that the cueball is going to follow after the shot is made, and I adjust my aim to that. It's like I'm aiming my position first, and then the shot. When I am struggling, I can't focus and I don't see any line, everything is kind of fuzzy and this is why I believe that I just play by memory when I'm out of stoke. I think that aiming systems really help boost one's concentration and can help you stay in stroke more often. The problem with the aiming system that I use, is that on the days when my stroke isn't in line, the system doesn't work at all so I abandon it. When I am stroking straight, it hasn't failed me yet.
In defense of JR
- Thread starter whitewolf
- Start date
drivermaker
Banned
LastTwo said:
Good post...
drivermaker said:
The speed of the swing, the adjustment for wind. All of the variables in the shot are based on previous situations and previous results.
These variables are processed by our subconsious and the variables are adjusted according to our "feel" for the shot.
drivermaker
Banned
BazookaJoe said:
Yeh...so what's your point?? I'm all for feel in the golf swing and the pool stroke. And that can ONLY be done after you're aligned and aimed correctly, which IS in fact done in golf by the pros in a VERY CONSCIOUS and METHODICAL fashion.
I know what alignment and aim is...do YOU, or are you going to make yourself start looking stupid again as you have in the past?
In my description for chipping, I combined alignment AND aiming. Aiming is done from the ball to the cup for line and usage of the club face.
All alignment is done with the body which is parallel to the line of aim.
So what's your problem. Do you know more as a hack golfer about it than I do as a pro? Tell me everything that you know in detail.
BTW, wind and all of the other stuff have to do with the full swing and other types of shots, not chip shots as you asked me to describe. Also, distance is controlled by selecting the right club with the correct loft right from the start. You don't hit 9-irons 200 yds. or 3-irons 115 yards and expect to hold a green or gauge the distance correcty by adjusting the swing.
And YES, you better damn well believe that all top PGA pros and teachers use a hell of a lot of mental imagery when setting up to a shot. They include lines, pictures, props, etc. But I guess this concept is far beyond what your pea brain is capable of.
Last edited:
Hey Mark, it was nice to see ya over the weekend at the tournament and I think it was a raw deal that you didn't get to play. Although I understand the reasoning behind it, I think the rules should be changed. Not just for you, but for all players. Anyway, in your post, I think that's what I was trying to say but I'm so damn long winded that I think it gets lost in the translation. Kinda like what I'm doing now so I'll quit here.mark tadd said:now they can be effecive on shots that dont require side spin .
but when you introduce side spin in the picture then thats a totaly different game altogether. but.... this is only good if you dont have to do nothing with the cue ball. if you have to do something with the cue ball like load it with left or right hand english, then your system is no good . so you will have to go by feel . meaning there is not just one spot for left or right hand english there are many depending on how small your tip is there may be more.
so you will have to find out how far left or right to go . then how hard you hit it will be required to get where you need. because you will have to judge the throw . if hit to hard you hit the ball to full to soft and you might miss it altogether. so by how much knowledge you have and how often you play you will play the shot by feel . i have never used systems always by common cents and by how i think the ball should go. example is the best bank pool players use a lot of spin why? because not all bank are straight in if any. and because its easyier and more natural to guide it in with spin and that takes feel because if hit to hard or to soft with the exact same english it will not go in the the same direction. and also in between hard and soft there are many other speeds which will change where the ball will go . my two cents is systems are limited to shots that require no side spin. once side spin and speed enter the picture its all feel...........
Peace, John. BTW, I played pretty bad, huh? Nevermind, I know the answer, later.thanks and nice to see you. been a long time. dont be hard on yourself you dont play but on occasion and then have to adjust to table (and only barbox). i know the feeling also . be hard on yourself if you are playing everyday like the hardtimes days and you get careless. keep in mind pool is just something to do unless you get serious again . it will also take the pressure off you if you have no expectations knowing its not lively hood like it used to beRude Dog said:Hey Mark, it was nice to see ya over the weekend at the tournament and I think it was a raw deal that you didn't get to play. Although I understand the reasoning behind it, I think the rules should be changed. Not just for you, but for all players. Anyway, in your post, I think that's what I was trying to say but I'm so damn long winded that I think it gets lost in the translation. Kinda like what I'm doing now so I'll quit here.
drivermaker said:
You silly fuck-stick.
You just can't discuss without getting mad. Can you?
Everything you described depends on the golfer's "FEEL".
Get that through your decrepit brain.
Can you say within 6" how far you are from the hole when you are > 10 yards or even > 5 yards out?
If you can, then you're fucking rain-man.
You imagine this and imagine that. You visualize spots. You adjust club speed to accouunt for 1 or 2 yards. Or do you carry a club for every yard increment? You such a stubborn little bitch not to realize that all these things make up a "FEEL". Or maybe you're in soo deep that you couldn't possibly admit it.
Well kiss my ass. I don't need to spend my time arguing with some old bastard who spends his days masturbating in his depends while he stares at a computer monitor.
drivermaker
Banned
BazookaJoe said:
Once again you prove yourself to be the idiot of idiots. I total frigging hack in the game of golf that's a know-it-all-there as well as in pool.
A golfers "FEEL" starts when he actually takes the club back in the process of swinging, asshole. Everything else prior to that is based on experience and knowledge of his game along with aim and alignment FUNDAMENTALS.
Hey dipshit...you don't need to know 6" in golf, but you damn well better know what 24-36 inches is when you're chipping. And you don't get that from being rainman and guessing...you get it from pacing it off, just as you see pro golfers doing it all the time. They walk from the ball to the cup and determine EXACTLY what it is.
In practice rounds, their caddies use laser range finders from ALL spots on the golf course and also back it up by walking the yardage off to know EXACTLY what distances they're at. When you see a pro whose ball is in front on a sprinkler head, they then pace it off from there because they know how far the sprinkler head is within 1 foot.
Talking to you is like talking to the dumbest ass on the planet. Son of a bitch...YOU ARE the dumbest ASS on the planet. (Now, go pull your pecker out and play with it as you usually do at this time of day....too bad you don't even HAVE 6")
drivermaker said:
I am laughing my ass off right now.
Get used to people laughing at you old fart. It's going to be more frequent as you get more and more senile.
Colin Colenso said:Time for bed unfortunately...Jessica is calling
Maybe when I return, I'll expand upon the relationships between feeling, desire, rightness, reason and memory in regards to their relevance to physical acts of skill, specifically relating to potting.
DM will be in suspense I'm sure
Night all
OK, how about this?...
Feel can be conscious or subconscious. Feel is subjective; aiming systems are objective.
Using aiming systems first will get a player 95% success on 95% of shots. The other 5% of shots need to be finalized by feel. And this feel comes from repetition.
So, align the shot with an objective aiming system and don't stroke it until it feels right.
Your turn,
Jeff Livingston
drivermaker
Banned
BazookaJoe said:
I don't doubt that you are laughing. Total whackos that are in padded walls or should be in padded walls do that all the time. It's kind of an ongoing goofy laugh too.
BTW...since your're SUCH a great golfer...enlighten everyone on what YOU do or THINK one should do to set up and hit a shot. (this should be f*#king GREAT....now my turn to laugh, but for good reason)
drivermaker said:
I think I posted rather clearly, that I am a hack golfer.
But, the instructions you provided rely on feel
Why did you start out so cranky?
Did you drink your ensure this morning?
drivermaker
Banned
BazookaJoe said:
As a hack golfer, you have no place even trying to condemn something that's standard operating procedure for doing what is done or taught in pro golf.
The instructions I provided are NOT based on feel. They are based on aim/alignment fundamentals which are very matter of fact in the how to's.
As I said before, FEEL starts once you've done all of that and start swinging the club. You then "FEEL" how you want to swing it in your practice strokes to gauge the distance from the ball to your intermediate landing area.
I'm not cranky, mad, or anything. You're reading shit over a screen that's not the way it is. I would suggest you go eat some fish for lunch and dinner today...they say it's brain food. You need all the help you can get.
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
sjm said:
Absolutely no disagreement.
Fred
On that test, I found that on almost every question I thought the answers given were either all irrelevant or equally valid and I had no real preference for the visual images.
It all would depend on the context of those images.
I can see which answers are supposed to be left brain and right brain answers, so I chose the right brained answers just so I could see the whole test and be told I was right brained.
My interests range from science to economics to politics to sport to business to design to psychology to religion to metaphysics, so trying fit into a 2 sided box doesn't make much sense. I'll leave those theories for the left-liberals and utilitarian neocons to fight out.
Anyway, so that makes me no-brained I guess.
It all would depend on the context of those images.
I can see which answers are supposed to be left brain and right brain answers, so I chose the right brained answers just so I could see the whole test and be told I was right brained.
My interests range from science to economics to politics to sport to business to design to psychology to religion to metaphysics, so trying fit into a 2 sided box doesn't make much sense. I'll leave those theories for the left-liberals and utilitarian neocons to fight out.
Anyway, so that makes me no-brained I guess.
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
A sign of a balanced mind.Colin Colenso said:
There are a dozen other tests online, most have what would be too obvious the left or right answer. I could tell WW that I've taken those type of quizzes as well, but he wouldn't believe me, so I pointed out one that isn't' so obvious in their answers.
Seems simple, doesn't it?
Fred
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
whitewolf said:
Fred was being nice
Your really a instigator, a know-nothing, a FL sympathizer and in my humble opinion...
a fuggin moron!!!
drivermaker
Banned
whitewolf said:
No...it's mental imagery and visualization. That's it...You're visually seeing it live and also in the mind's eye.
However, that having been said...it lends itself positively TO the FEELING part.
Same as in pool. Once you have the aiming part down pat through imagery and feel confident through experience of pocketing thousands of balls with it...THEN you can just let feel take over in the stroke for speed, spin, and what type of stroke you're using. This is when I think you should go brain dead, more of less, and just let it happen.
But then again...you have guys that are stroke junkies and always obsessing about their stroke and whether it's on line or their elbow is dropping, etc.
In my case, I don't want to think about any of that crap.