Info on Non paying customers

hypnauticz said:
i have question for the cue maker's..
let's say u give that person about 1 year to have that cue done.but it took more then that.so the customer doesn't want the cue no more..so how that will goes from there ? and normally how long till take you to refund the money to the customer ?
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In my opinion, if I quoted a customer a time of one year and I had the cue finished on time and to their specifications, but they didn't have the money, I would not owe them a refund.

If the cue was not finished on time or not to their specifications, then I think a refund would be justified.

I also believe that most of the time, if the cue is a little late, the customer will still want the cue. If I am going to be running late, I keep them posted so they are not left in the dark. If I am going to be early, I let them know and give them the option of getting the cue early or putting it aside so I finish it closer to the due date.
 
Tony Zinzola said:
In my opinion, if I quoted a customer a time of one year and I had the cue finished on time and to their specifications, but they didn't have the money, I would not owe them a refund.

If the cue was not finished on time or not to their specifications, then I think a refund would be justified.

I also believe that most of the time, if the cue is a little late, the customer will still want the cue. If I am going to be running late, I keep them posted so they are not left in the dark. If I am going to be early, I let them know and give them the option of getting the cue early or putting it aside so I finish it closer to the due date.
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All cue makers have a right to run their business any way they want as long as there is a clear understanding up front with the customer. The problem is, half the time the cue makers won't even return your calls once they begin running behind. Then when you do get ahold of them the excuses begin. Just read this forum, complaints about cue makers pop up all the time.

I think cue makers may want to think about taking a course in business along with their other skills. Being self employed is very hard. Self discipline in business can be very difficult when you don't have a boss and many cue makers run their business terrible. The funny thing is, they don't seem to recognize they are the problem. It's not they are so over loaded with work, they can't manage their time and they don't get anything done.
 
I am at a little bit of a loss here. What is the buyers horrible offense that he is to be avoided in the future?
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if you look back it wasn't i who said that.i was merely trying to explain what Dave was saying.i was not agreeing with him or saying it was what i would do.if i misunderstood Dave,sorry.

i don't take deposits so this would never really come up for me,but if i did i would wait 30 days(as long as i had been in contact with him recently and he knew when the cue was going to be done for sure) and sell the cue to someone else.i live on cues now and it is pretty lean.i need to sell my cues when they are done to survive.i would not have a problem dealing with the customer on another cue down the road unless he just blew me off and there was no reason for him not buying the first cue.

i think macguy is right that the title of the thread might be misleading.it instantly portrays the customer as being in the wrong when maybe he wasn't even aware of the due date having come and gone.if i hadn't been in contact with the customer about exactly when it was going to be done then i would obviously give him longer.

on another note i don't it is a matter of cuemakers mismanaging their time,it just takes a very long time to make quality cues.even if all the wood is perfectly seasoned cuemaking still just takes time and getting the finish perfect always takes extra time.when i get a batch of cues done it takes me weeks just to get the fit and finish the way i like it.i alos don't think cuemakers as a whole have problems with being late and making excuses and being arrogant.i don't think it is fair to penalize all cuemakers b/c you had a bad experience with a few.
 
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macguy said:
All cue makers have a right to run their business any way they want as long as there is a clear understanding up front with the customer. The problem is, half the time the cue makers won't even return your calls once they begin running behind. Then when you do get ahold of them the excuses begin. Just read this forum, complaints about cue makers pop up all the time.

I think cue makers may want to think about taking a course in business along with their other skills. Being self employed is very hard. Self discipline in business can be very difficult when you don't have a boss and many cue makers run their business terrible. The funny thing is, they don't seem to recognize they are the problem. It's not they are so over loaded with work, they can't manage their time and they don't get anything done.
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As in every business, Things should be taken on an individual basis whether it's for or against both parties. I have plenty of glass windows in my house.
 
Any customer that pays 50% upfront deserves at least 60 days before any action is taken regarding the cue he order. There's a lot of stuff happening financially these days. Here in NY there's a lot of people losing their jobs and more to come in the future. So if I had to guess I think we're all going to be seeing a lot more delays in payment.


Mario
 
macguy said:
All cue makers have a right to run their business any way they want as long as there is a clear understanding up front with the customer. The problem is, half the time the cue makers won't even return your calls once they begin running behind. Then when you do get ahold of them the excuses begin. Just read this forum, complaints about cue makers pop up all the time.

I think cue makers may want to think about taking a course in business along with their other skills. Being self employed is very hard. Self discipline in business can be very difficult when you don't have a boss and many cue makers run their business terrible. The funny thing is, they don't seem to recognize they are the problem. It's not they are so over loaded with work, they can't manage their time and they don't get anything done.
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Valid points, I agree with most of this but there are exeptions to this, I for one know alot of people wonder why it takes us a year to complete a cue,

well not only do I have other orders, if you'ld like to know how many, I just figured out how many I have yesterday, I don't mind letting that info out but still not going to blab it out on a forum, but we (my brother and I) are not a cue factory, and we are not one of these 6-8 week custom/manufactures. Some guys realy don't have many orders so 6-8 weeks is enough time for them, and they aren't really interested in letting wood rest between cuts, and to be honest sometimes you don't have to, but the way we make cue's, we let cue's sit between cuts, just the way we do things.

But as far as managing time you are correct about that, why are we sitting at our computers talking about making cue's, instead of actualy building cues? Well, we are finishing cue's right now, and putting on base coats, so cue's have to dry before I can work on them again, my brother has been turning shafts for 2-3 weeks now, I could do other things but we finish 15 cues in a batch, and I am working on two batches right now, and I have them staggered out so I do one today, then one tomorrow, then back to the first on the third day, and ext.......not to mention, some times we just need to take a break.

Our grandmother passed away last week and our shop was pretty much at a stand still for 5-6 days, I have 5 bundles of 100 shafts plus a few 10s and 20's that I was to ship out monday that are sitting in the shop, I know my personal life shouldn't effect buisness, but it was unavoidable. And Luckily everyone was understanding, and compassionate, I offered to ship yesterday, but didn't feel that it was a good Idea, they might sit in a truck/van in the cold for a day or two.

The thing is, for me atleast I have had a few customers put a bad taste in my mouth, different situations, and so on. SO we either keep making mistakes or adapt and do things that will keep us safe.
 
It seems I have struck a nerve in both directions!
I understand things arise in people lives and luxuries take a back seat.
I failed in one aspect, that was I didnt get enough info, phone #, address, ect...
I am learning from my mistakes.
At no time did I use the words jerk, dead beat, or piece of dirt.
I was just looking for some advice, and all is welcome.
This cue was 50% complete when the customer saw it on my website and had to have it.
I also emailed this person alot during the process of finishing the cue and other than the initial deal being set up, I havent heard from him at all.

Thanks
Lee
 
If the customer wants something that is out of the ordinary then I feel a deposit is warrented because if they were to back out you may have trouble selling the cue. Imagine a 14oz cue with an 11mm shaft for instance. The deposit shows that the buyer is serious and also less the amount they have to come up with once the cue is finished.
 
LPCUSTOMCUES said:
It seems I have struck a nerve in both directions!
I understand things arise in people lives and luxuries take a back seat.
I failed in one aspect, that was I didnt get enough info, phone #, address, ect...
I am learning from my mistakes.
At no time did I use the words jerk, dead beat, or piece of dirt.
I was just looking for some advice, and all is welcome.
This cue was 50% complete when the customer saw it on my website and had to have it.
I also emailed this person alot during the process of finishing the cue and other than the initial deal being set up, I havent heard from him at all.

Thanks
Lee
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Just as a suggestion. I looked at your website and could not find any contact information other then an email link. I could not even find your name on the site. I think if you expect someone to make a leap of faith and buy a cue from you you need to be more customer friendly. In fact I would never complete any deal without a personal contact. Today with cell and home phones (I have comcast phone service) with unlimited long distance, it is no problem to follow up a request for information with a phone call.

As a customer I could not imagine sending money to someone for a cue I had not even spoken with. You know once you have the person on the phone that is where you can close the sale as well. You will increase your sales many time over with the personal touch that lets the customer know you care about their business. A good read is the book "Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive".

http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...cm_cr_acr_txt?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I once sat next to the author on an over seas flight from Germany. That chance meeting was worth millions to me over the following few years. Not so much what I learned from him, but it woke me up to the fact that often you think you know what you are doing, and you may not. You always have to be looking and learning.
Success is no accident and failure is not always bad luck.
Anyway, good luck to you.
 
Tony Zinzola said:
In my opinion, if I quoted a customer a time of one year and I had the cue finished on time and to their specifications, but they didn't have the money, I would not owe them a refund.

If the cue was not finished on time or not to their specifications, then I think a refund would be justified.

I also believe that most of the time, if the cue is a little late, the customer will still want the cue. If I am going to be running late, I keep them posted so they are not left in the dark. If I am going to be early, I let them know and give them the option of getting the cue early or putting it aside so I finish it closer to the due date.
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yes i do understand what you mean by there..but the question here is..the cue maker never keep yout updated no information no picture of the cue..no nothing..untill the time goes by i request the refund because i got to run to other country for a while..then finally got an email stated the cue is done..when i gotta leave out of town. . so in this case normally how long will take you cue maker to refund the moeny?
 
As a self employed contractor I would require new customers to pay a non refundable security deposit. This was to guarantee that I would start the project on time and that the customer would also follow through on their commitment to have the work performed. I only had one instance that it was necessary for me to enforce this clause and I was glad I had it in my contract. If the customer wishes to cancel and forfeit there deposit that is their choice and that is exactly what occured. It was not a large sum but it did cover my expenses for setting up the project and for the time involved in rescheduling another project. I see no problem with cuemakers doing something similar..
 
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masonh said:
i think Dave was trying to say go ahead and sell the cue and when he gets in touch with the first customer return the deposit and then to avoid him later in life.
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thanks mason thats EXACTLY what i mean. ive never screwed anyone in life. i hate to see that happen
 
hypnauticz said:
yes i do understand what you mean by there..but the question here is..the cue maker never keep yout updated no information no picture of the cue..no nothing..untill the time goes by i request the refund because i got to run to other country for a while..then finally got an email stated the cue is done..when i gotta leave out of town. . so in this case normally how long will take you cue maker to refund the moeny?
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I guess that would depend on if the cue is already late or you just decided you no longer want the cue because you are moving. Not all cue makers send photos along the way. If you just decided you don't want the cue because you are moving, I'm not so sure I would refund you. If the cue is late, and you were my customer, I would refund your money if you requested it. It probably would only take me a couple of days, but I only collect a 20% deposit, so on one of my cues, it's only a few hundred dollars. If I had a few thousand of your money, it may take me an extra couple of weeks to refund you.

Just because the cue maker hasn't' sent you any photos, doesn't mean he's not working on the cue. I have a lot more cues in progress than I have photographed. I try to send pictures to my customers along the way, but sometimes I forget.
 
Tony Zinzola said:
I guess that would depend on if the cue is already late or you just decided you no longer want the cue because you are moving. Not all cue makers send photos along the way. If you just decided you don't want the cue because you are moving, I'm not so sure I would refund you. If the cue is late, and you were my customer, I would refund your money if you requested it. It probably would only take me a couple of days, but I only collect a 20% deposit, so on one of my cues, it's only a few hundred dollars. If I had a few thousand of your money, it may take me an extra couple of weeks to refund you.

Just because the cue maker hasn't' sent you any photos, doesn't mean he's not working on the cue. I have a lot more cues in progress than I have photographed. I try to send pictures to my customers along the way, but sometimes I forget.
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yes i totally understand your point..i dont really mind about the picture..as long as i get the cue i want it i'm fine..it just the time issue..first he told me like 1 year , then come back to ask me to give him other 3 month's then later on other few month's i mean i woudn't mind waiting because that's the cue i want and i been waited, but how can you ask customer to give you month's after month's after month's you know , that's why i shorta dont get why he keep asking for more times.
 
I answered your questions, based on how I would handle it. I don't know if you have asked for a refund or not.

If that is the cue you want, then keep waiting. You are a lot more closer to having it now then if you place a new order.
 
I think I have heard everybodys views on this subject.

I am going to hold the cue for 90 days.

I did find his address on paypal when he paid, so I will send him an invoice for the cue.

That seems like the fair thing to do.

Thanks for all your help

Lee
 
Where did this end up?

I would like to piggy back off this thread on my current situation

The cuemaker will not return multiple phone calls, emails and text messages. Initially, my intention was its been 2yrs since I sent you a deposit and hey this is potentially my year. I just wanted to touch base and see where I stood, nothing more. Now given his lack of response I just want my deposit back. Just like everyone else on this board, I work hard for my money.

With the exception of writing a letter I have attempted to contact the cuemaker in enough reasonable forms possible and he has yet to respond to any of 3+my emails, 10+phone calls or text message. I have pretty much called the guy two to three times a week for the last month and a half and have received no response. Prior to calling I believe I emailed him three or four times Feb-Apr. I have been told he is alive and kicking.

Anyone have any suggestions?

This is NOT indicative of my experience with any of the below cuemakers, all of these gentleman provided great customer service and responded to my requests and questions in a timely manner:
Eric Crisp
Travis Niklich
Andy Gilbert
Kevin Varney

I would also like to say, I believe I have been reasonable and a fairly easy person to deal with concerning the cue dealers I have dealt with on this board.
 
LPCUSTOMCUES said:
It seems I have struck a nerve in both directions!
I understand things arise in people lives and luxuries take a back seat.
I failed in one aspect, that was I didnt get enough info, phone #, address, ect...
I am learning from my mistakes.
At no time did I use the words jerk, dead beat, or piece of dirt.
I was just looking for some advice, and all is welcome.
This cue was 50% complete when the customer saw it on my website and had to have it.
I also emailed this person alot during the process of finishing the cue and other than the initial deal being set up, I havent heard from him at all.

Thanks
Lee
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Since you are not sure the customer is getting your emails, I would probably follow the advice of others and hold onto the cue for a few months. You got a cheap lesson in information gathering for future orders. If you knew for sure he was ignoring you it would be a whole other matter, but you have no way of knowing that for sure. So give him some time. Try to think of anyway you can get ahold of him. Do a white pages search and see if you come up with a phone number if you can remember what city he is from.

Note: I had not read all the posts in this thread before responding to your above post. Sounds like you have already started doing the things I suggested. Send him a Paypal Invoice, but also snail mail him a certified letter because if he has changed email address or his computer is down or he lost his internet service mail will be the surest way to get ahold of him.
 
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