Inlays.......What The Heck Are They?

[skins]

Say what you will about cue designs and values but the bottom-line is there should be....there has to be....standards...norms....for grading the design of a cue in order to establish order & logic.....some structure.....to the universe of sales........otherwise there really is nothing that can be measured and essentially, esoteric salesmanship will ultimately assign the value of a cue, i.e., what you'll pay.

Everything has a way of being rated objectively...........measured, compared & contrasted with some industry assigned benchmark.....a scale if you will. Absent anything like that and cue values/prices become largely a measure of sales and marketing rather than design intricacy which is a very important factor......IMO.

Matt B.

Do you "value" paintings objectively with order and logic? Do you count the number of brush strokes or the type of strokes used? The media used? Does the art world have "standards" and "norms" to determine esthetics or value. The answer is no. Pool cues can be functional art and as such values are determined by desirability of the efforts created by the maker and the demand of those efforts. Simple as that.

 

[Type79]

Poor Grades

I never put much stock in the Blue Book grading system as it places too much value on the number of inlays rather than the other work involved in the cue's design and execution.

 

[cuebuyer4u]

Say what you will about cue designs and values but the bottom-line is there should be....there has to be....standards...norms....for grading the design of a cue in order to establish order & logic.....some structure.....to the universe of sales........otherwise there really is nothing that can be measured and essentially, esoteric salesmanship will ultimately assign the value of a cue, i.e., what you'll pay.

Everything has a way of being rated objectively...........measured, compared & contrasted with some industry assigned benchmark.....a scale if you will. Absent anything like that and cue values/prices become largely a measure of sales and marketing rather than design intricacy which is a very important factor......IMO.

Matt B.

you can reference this site for rating a cue

http://www.internationalcuemakers.com/?page=cuegallery

 

[Bavafongoul]

OMG............comparing Rembrandt....Picasso......and other great painters with Balabushka & Szamboti....and other great cue-makers........if that wasn't such pathetic analogy it would have been comical.......and yes, the art world has standards too.

 

[skins]

OMG............comparing Rembrandt....Picasso......and other great painters with Balabushka & Szamboti....and other great cue-makers........if that wasn't such pathetic analogy it would have been comical.......and yes, the art world has standards too.

Please do educate, all of us, those "standards" the "art world" uses to assess value...

Your inability, or outright stubbornness, to see the comparison is why you will never understand how or why cues are valued nor why the cues you WISH to be valued higher, never will.... That is the thought that is MOST "comical"...

 

[JoeyInCali]

inlays.....................

 

[RBC]

Don't look now, but I don't think this thread is about "Inlays......What The Heck Are They?" any longer!


Royce

 

[JasBy]

While the 'inlay method' makes perfect sense in relation to cues of a previous generation, as stated earlier in the thread it borders on worthlessness for newer cues.
For instance, a plain jane Barenbrugge with his intricate rings should be worth no more than another plain jane with phenolic or a silver ring? Or a Brent Summers cue with twists and loops in the veneers is worth no more than one with 'normal' veneers? The obvious answer to both these questions is no - meaning the stated rating system has obvious glaring flaws.

And as far as the comparisons between art and cues - it is not laughable at all. I can commission a perfect reproduction of a Rembrandt painting that will be identical to the original in all aspects except for the hand that held the brush. As far as it's purpose goes (to be looked at) it is identical. One can build an exact replica of an original Balabushka cue, but as far as it's intended use (to hit balls) it could be completely different. One could argue that due to the fact that cues are functional works of art, that an entirely additional level of expertise is required to create and copy them.

 

[Type79]

While the 'inlay method' makes perfect sense in relation to cues of a previous generation, <snip>

I would argue that the 'inlay method' of rating cues may have worked at one time to categorize a cue by appearance but never for value. If the system had been valid for cues from let's say, the 1960's, then Palmer and Paradise cues would have been equal in value to that of a Rich, Viking, Adam, Gandy, National Cue, etc.

 

[skins]

Don't look now, but I don't think this thread is about "Inlays......What The Heck Are They?" any longer!


Royce

Wouldn't be the first time Royce...:wink:

1. I think the underlying motives of this thread were stated by the OP earlier he said, and I quote:

......The Level of Intricacy Grading System (Levels 1 - 8) was developed to assist evaluating cue values......
Matt B.

This as we know it, and agreed by most, doesn't work at all...

2. He then states that comparing cue makers to other artist is comical AFTER he makes this statement, and I quote:

...Thank you for helping us lay folks better understand the nature and artistry of cue-making.....
Matt B.

So Royce this thread IS about values and I'd bet it was started to "authenticate" the OP's cues and a reasoning for them being AS valuable as other cues with similar amounts of work... It just don't work that way though...

 

[skins]

One thing I will add is some cue makers will use an inlay count and type to determine their price to a customer. Ya know, more work more money. This is not the way to value the cue beyond customer pricing though...

Since Royce so eloquently pointed out what he thought the intent of this thread was I will say, An inlay is any solid geometric piece set into a hole that would receive it... Thanks Royce for getting this thread back on track..lol

 

[RBC]

Wouldn't be the first time Royce...:wink:

1. I think the underlying motives of this thread were stated by the OP earlier he said, and I quote:




This as we know it, and agreed by most, doesn't work at all...

2. He then states that comparing cue makers to other artist is comical AFTER he makes this statement, and I quote:



So Royce this thread IS about values and I'd bet it was started to "authenticate" the OP's cues and a reasoning for them being AS valuable as other cues with similar amounts of work... It just don't work that way though...

Well, I have to agree.

You know, I know some cuemakers who do use the numbers of inlays, points, veneers etc to help them determine their asking price. I also know at least one who's pricing method is to build the cue, hold up and get a good look at it, and say "This cue's worth $$$$!" and that's that.

The facts are that it's up to the builder to put the starting price on a cue. If he starts too low, he not only costs himself money on that cue, but all of his cues will be valued similarly. On the other hand, if he values it too high, he may not sell it at all. I guess you just have to try real hard to do what's right for you and then be willing to adjust if necessary.

Now, the resale value of a cue is a little different story. Here, supply and demand is a much bigger factor. There are cue dealers who have made cuemakers in demand because they have to market. They can get the cuemaker's work to be "known", which increases demand, and the prices. Actually, that's the job of the dealer. To promote and market the cue in order to raise it's value. Then sell it for more than he paid for it.

This is all pretty much just Free Market Society. Some cues become extremely in demand while very similar cues in quality and workmanship don't do as well. Such is life!

Royce

 

[skins]

.....Now, the resale value of a cue is a little different story. Here, supply and demand is a much bigger factor. There are cue dealers who have made cuemakers in demand because they have to market. They can get the cuemaker's work to be "known", which increases demand, and the prices. Actually, that's the job of the dealer. To promote and market the cue in order to raise it's value. Then sell it for more than he paid for it.

This is all pretty much just Free Market Society. Some cues become extremely in demand while very similar cues in quality and workmanship don't do as well. Such is life!

Royce

I will agree BUT if the cue can not stand on it's own and deserve high resale value without promotion, it's "value" will be relatively no different no matter how much a dealer "promotes"... A Robin will never be an Eagle no mater how much you promote it... This of course is just the opposite when it comes to politics though..:wink:

 

[RBC]

I will agree BUT if the cue can not stand on it's own and deserve high resale value without promotion, it's "value" will be relatively no different no matter how much a dealer "promotes"... A Robin will never be an Eagle no mater how much you promote it... This of course is just the opposite when it comes to politics though..:wink:

I do agree.

Promotion cannot make a poor cue valuable. At least not for the long term.

But, the best cue on the planet isn't worth anything if it's stuck in someone's closet and no one knows it even exists.

It takes both parts.


Royce

 

[skins]

I do agree.

Promotion cannot make a poor cue valuable. At least not for the long term.

But, the best cue on the planet isn't worth anything if it's stuck in someone's closet and no one knows it even exists.

It takes both parts.


Royce

Sure. That makes me think of lets say Searing cues for instance. Almost everyone who has a little exposure to pool cue collecting knows they exists but probably more people have seen hen's teeth then have seen one let alone get to hold, examine and play with one yet they are still among the most sought after cues in the world today. I've said this before and it holds true in every facet of collecting anything, to understand the desire for an item and it's value you have to be a "cognoscenti" of sorts. In other words you have to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the differences between the items you're comparing. Too many who think they know about certain items, DON'T. That's where the biggest problem lies and where promotion does indeed help if those within earshot take the cotton out of their ears for a few seconds to listen....