Input please

camargored

camargored

Camargo Red Cues
Silver Member
I have a friend who has a pool room small. 4 small 8 footers and a 9 footer, Food ect . Renting the building. Well he has bought a building and opening a new place full kitchen. Plans on 8 bar tables diamonds and a 9 foot diamond. He is getting negative feedback on bar tables from some of his current customers. There for kids type stuff? Well I've been a few places in my life and seen that if it touch's KY they mite have 8 footers outside of that probably not. I went to a tourney this past weekend with 5 diamond bar boxes with $14,000 in the tourney with 46 players only 3 kids in it. Some of the best players in the country where there. He sees this and likes the bar table aspect, but having thoughts now. Wanting input to give him some feedback bar box diamond or 8 foot not sure on brand . There's only 4 inch's wide and 8 inch's long is the difference. Leagues are bar boxes. I figure plying on a diamond box compared to a small 8 footer big pockets the box is tougher? Give me your thoughts. This is in central KY area.
 
If I were to open a room, it would be mostly diamond bar boxes and a few 9 foot diamonds for the hardcore fanatics. Ive been around pool players, long enough to know that the profits will not come from them.

I hope your friend gets this thing going. We need a pool room in our area with good equipment. Call me sometime if you want more unbiased feedback.
 
I have always been against bar boxes in pool rooms , but if I were to open a room I would have them for the leagues and tournaments , from everything I see, they pay off much better and bring in more people who spend for food and drinks.
Room owners could give you real statistics , I am just going from a visual perspective.
 
camargored said:
I have a friend who has a pool room small. 4 small 8 footers and a 9 footer, Food ect . Renting the building. Well he has bought a building and opening a new place full kitchen. Plans on 8 bar tables diamonds and a 9 foot diamond. He is getting negative feedback on bar tables from some of his current customers. There for kids type stuff? Well I've been a few places in my life and seen that if it touch's KY they mite have 8 footers outside of that probably not. I went to a tourney this past weekend with 5 diamond bar boxes with $14,000 in the tourney with 46 players only 3 kids in it. Some of the best players in the country where there. He sees this and likes the bar table aspect, but having thoughts now. Wanting input to give him some feedback bar box diamond or 8 foot not sure on brand . There's only 4 inch's wide and 8 inch's long is the difference. Leagues are bar boxes. I figure plying on a diamond box compared to a small 8 footer big pockets the box is tougher? Give me your thoughts. This is in central KY area.
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Using a forum member like jalapus logan for info and advice is powerful. I believe he knows plenty about both table sizes.
 
jalapus logan said:
If I were to open a room, it would be mostly diamond bar boxes and a few 9 foot diamonds for the hardcore fanatics. Ive been around pool players, long enough to know that the profits will not come from them.

I hope your friend gets this thing going. We need a pool room in our area with good equipment. Call me sometime if you want more unbiased feedback.
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I agree just trying to help him make a decision give him some facts.
 
Personally I'd rather a room full of 9 footers, but that's not really relevant. The only thing that really matters is how much money will the owner make with either setup.
 
If he's deciding between 7 and 8 footers, I'd go with the 7. If 7 and 9, I'd go with the 9, but then I have not researched business needs for tables. I know that very few casual players have been around a 9 foot table, so if he thinks he will be getting customers that are not regular players, having 7 footers would be good.
 
Off topic maybe but, I read an article in a news paper from 1950's talking about the decline of pool rooms and how all the carom tables are going and they are replacing them with "miniature" tables......meaning 9footers! :) Wonder what we will be playing on in another 20 years?

G.
 
My expertise here lies only in the fact that I've been around awhile, but day in and day out, as a business, I think your friend would be better off with full size tables providing he has the space.
Also, big name players from all over the country don't come to play in a tournament just because of the small tables. They come because of the money. Hell, given enough prize money players would show up and hit balls in the parking lot into open manholes.
Have him do the math and see which size would bring him the most profit over, say, a years time. It could possibly be that the small tables are the way to go. If they are then he's a bar owner. :smile:
 
I think a huge factor is what kind of player he's trying to attract. League players and 8 ball tourneys will be fine on 7' tables, and probably 9 ball as well.

On the other hand, if he wants to attract players for 1 pocket, straight pool, banks, etc, he'll need some 9' tables.

As much as I'd love to see a hall in central KY full of 9' Diamonds, the best money making option is probably mostly 7' tables with a full bar and decent kitchen. With this setup, league players will be your bread & butter, but a few 9' tables in the back will keep the attention of more serious players and the gambling set.

After that, please emphasize that table conditions and quality staff will definitely affect your repeat business. There are halls in the area that I know of that do not get the business they could simply due to poor quality tables that don't rack well and poor staff.
 
Gerry said:
Off topic maybe but, I read an article in a news paper from 1950's talking about the decline of pool rooms and how all the carom tables are going and they are replacing them with "miniature" tables......meaning 9footers! :) Wonder what we will be playing on in another 20 years?

G.
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Gerry, they'll be playing pool on six footers next. Sorry to say it but pool belongs on 9 or 10 footers. That's all there is to it! I would say 80% play on bar boxes and of those 80% I'll bet half of them have never and will never step up to a 9 footer so this new room owner is better off loading his place up with 7 footers. It's lamentable.
 
Has he done a competitive analysis? What tables are offered in rooms in a 15- and 30-mile radius of his location? How are each of those rooms doing? Is league-play a factor in the area?

I'm constantly amazed at how many would-be-entrepenuers bet their life savings on so little information. No wonder 9 out of 10 new businesses fail.
 
The 7' tables are part of the pool room culture nowadays.......I hate playing on 7' table because it seems like the game is much easier.........I am a monster player on a 7' table.......and just a good player on 9' tables......weaker players perform better on a 7' table than when they play on a 9' pool table.....that's just a fact. I know the OP mentioned 8' tables but I don't play on any 8' tables........none of the Fresno pool rooms have 8' tables.......just 9' tables and lots of 7' tables. Why so many 7' tables?

Fresno's pool rooms depend upon league play for their very existence......without the league participation, the pool halls would close. There's APA leagues, BCA leagues, NAPA Leages and even in -house leagues.......these tournament players spend lots of counter money on food and refreshments......thank goodness for 7' tables or else there would be hardly any pool rooms operating profitably in the Central Valley of California.

Matt B.
 
Your question was 7' vs 8', and without doubt 7'. The 7' will best accommodate leagues and women, plus is a widely accepted gambling table in bars. I am a serious player and former business man. I would not consider playing on an 8'. For me 9' or 7'.

It is very hard to give any advice without knowing the area, demographics, competition, exact space, overhead, and expected return on capitol.

In general, if you really want to help him, have him define his goals with a mission statement for the business. Hopefully he has done this prior to purchasing the building. He is not going to make much on table time...he needs a Full liquor license and some food. Several owners I know say food is more trouble than it is worth. I disagree if properlly thought out. LIMIT THE FOOD to manage the waste which can kill you. What you offer, make it the best around. Top quality permits pricing up. It does not have to be fantasy.

It sounds to me that space my still be a problem to accomodate any kind of a crowd.

GOOD LUCK.:smile:
 
camargored said:
I have a friend who has a pool room small. 4 small 8 footers and a 9 footer, Food ect . Renting the building. Well he has bought a building and opening a new place full kitchen. Plans on 8 bar tables diamonds and a 9 foot diamond. He is getting negative feedback on bar tables from some of his current customers. There for kids type stuff? Well I've been a few places in my life and seen that if it touch's KY they mite have 8 footers outside of that probably not. I went to a tourney this past weekend with 5 diamond bar boxes with $14,000 in the tourney with 46 players only 3 kids in it. Some of the best players in the country where there. He sees this and likes the bar table aspect, but having thoughts now. Wanting input to give him some feedback bar box diamond or 8 foot not sure on brand . There's only 4 inch's wide and 8 inch's long is the difference. Leagues are bar boxes. I figure plying on a diamond box compared to a small 8 footer big pockets the box is tougher? Give me your thoughts. This is in central KY area.
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Negative feedback, so what. As long as he gets some good quality tables they will be an asset. AND, if it turns out to be a bad idea he is not locked into it anything. He can always get rid of them if it doesn't work out.

That is not to say you are not interested in opinions, but in the end yo do what YOU think is right. You will know if it was soon enough.
 
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Does the owner know the type of customers he attracts, on average how much they spend, how long they stay, and when to run specials to attract those customers.

Pool have many subcultures, its important to identify the type of customers, the expected rate of return. Asking on AZ, do you realize you're only dealing with one extreme end of the customer spectrum. Their priorities may not be mutually compatible with the other customers. As bdorman suggested, your friend needs to check out the other poolhalls in the area.

If the majority of the current customers are social/bangers they likely wouldn't care if you gave them a 7' barbox, or a 9' foot Pro/Am Diamond. There is a huge gulf in investment cost between these two tables, and rate of return. A Saturday night social player with 4 friends, drinks, food on a single table may generate as much as half a room of players paying $5-10 for a daily special.
 
Bavafongoul said:
....I hate playing on 7' table because it seems like the game is much easier.........I am a monster player on a 7' table.......and just a good player on 9' tables......weaker players perform better on a 7' table than when they play on a 9' pool table.....that's just a fact.
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I know players that are monsters on 9' and just good on 7'. Why? Because the balls scatter more on 9' thus there is generally less interference on 9' and thus if you can shot accurately you can play "better" when there is less impeding your way. That is a fact, unlike you opinion stated as fact above.

It takes around 25 balls on a 9' table to match the clutter on a 7' table after a break that has to be worked around so I doubt you are monster on either if you can't do it on a 9'.
 
Skippy27 said:
I know players that are monsters on 9' and just good on 7'. Why? Because the balls scatter more on 9' thus there is generally less interference on 9' and thus if you can shot accurately you can play "better" when there is less impeding your way. That is a fact, unlike you opinion stated as fact above.

It takes around 25 balls on a 9' table to match the clutter on a 7' table after a break that has to be worked around so I doubt you are monster on either if you can't do it on a 9'.
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Yes but if you are a 9 foot player there are no long shots on a 7 footer even if you are rail to rail. I have to agree with Bafangoul. 9 ball on a 7 footer is ok. 8 ball there is no room for anybody that's why you rarely see 14.1 played on a bar box. You never need a power stroke on a 7 footer especially if it is a Diamond.
 
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