Inspecting the rack

S

slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was watching a few of the recent Predator World 10-Ball matches on YouTube. Refs were racking with a template and the players weren't supposed to inspect the rack afterwards. Anybody know the penalty if they happen to inspect it?
 
I always thought of inspecting it as either accepting it or pointing out gaps to be corrected. Do players look at a rack and decide how to break it based on tiny irregularities?

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logical said:
I always thought of inspecting it as either accepting it or pointing out gaps to be corrected. Do players look at a rack and decide how to break it based on tiny irregularities?

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Yes.

The knowledge of how to read the rack and exploit the different gaps has been out there for a while now. Joe Tucker was the first to commercially release the info.
 
logical said:
I always thought of inspecting it as either accepting it or pointing out gaps to be corrected. Do players look at a rack and decide how to break it based on tiny irregularities?

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Joe let the cat of the bag, but the cat only obeys SVB. :D
 
This would be a tournament violation, and not a "foul". So while I don't have the answer, whatever the penalty for a tournament violation typically is. What happens when you hit the ref with the stick?
 
Should be loss of rack. Second violation loss of match. Third violation disqualified from tournament. A culture of not inspecting the rack is way better than a culture of having a shifty at the rack.
 
Cron said:
This would be a tournament violation, and not a "foul". So while I don't have the answer, whatever the penalty for a tournament violation typically is. What happens when you hit the ref with the stick?
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Swighey said:
Should be loss of rack. Second violation loss of match. Third violation disqualified from tournament...
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I doubt funnier will be read by I this lovely day.
 
Swighey said:
Should be loss of rack. Second violation loss of match. Third violation disqualified from tournament. A culture of not inspecting the rack is way better than a culture of having a shifty at the rack.
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That presents the race condition of who looked first. What if both look at the same time? I agree that the rack shouldn't be inspected if it's racked by an official, as it seems rude and undermining to do so.
 
Cron said:
That presents the race condition of who looked first. What if both look at the same time? I agree that the rack shouldn't be inspected if it's racked by an official, as it seems rude and undermining to do so.
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If both look at the same time (or rather have been adjudged to have looked at the same time) then I guess it would make sense that the penalty goes to both of them. After all, they both looked.......
 
Black-Balled said:
I doubt funnier will be read by I this lovely day.
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I’m glad someone found it funny ‘cos I didn’t. Seems like a pretty reasonable suggestion for keeping the game clean. But I would say that cos I wrote it...

Have any other suggestions for how you would deal with players inspecting the rack?
 
Swighey said:
I’m glad someone found it funny ‘cos I didn’t. Seems like a pretty reasonable suggestion for keeping the game clean. But I would say that cos I wrote it...

Have any other suggestions for how you would deal with players inspecting the rack?
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I think hitting the ref with a stick once should incur the maximum penalty, but neither you nor I make the rules and are both entitled to opinions on the consequences.
 
Swighey said:
If both look at the same time (or rather have been adjudged to have looked at the same time) then I guess it would make sense that the penalty goes to both of them. After all, they both looked.......
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Right, but I meant in the perspective of a game penalty instead of a tournament penalty. If both look at the same time, a game penalty would be null due to equal distribution... would they both be negative 1 racks? I assume it would be 1 warning, then ejection.

Ejected players from a tournament would make an interesting C-Side bracket which could be held in an alley with no cameras or officials of any type. This could be ran in the Last Man Standing format.
 
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Cron said:
Right, but I meant in the perspective of a game penalty instead of a tournament penalty. If both look at the same time, a game penalty would be null due to equal distribution... would they both be negative 1 racks? I assume it would be 1 warning, then ejection.

Ejected players from a tournament would make an interesting C-Side bracket which could be held in an alley with no cameras or officials of any type. This could be ran in the Last Man Standing format.
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Yes they would both lose one rack. This rack and the next rack. Same player breaks again, unless someone is over the hill. Not rocket science and easy to administer.

No cameras, no refs, no upstanding players - different story. But I don’t see how that would change anything regarding how opponents wanting a good game would implement the rules. Or how it would affect a tournament......
 
I'm not sure I follow the "look at it at the same time" discussion. I've very rarely seen two players cone up and simultaneously inspect a rack, it's usually the breaker, or in rack your own usually the non breaker. I like ref rack no look. I did see a few players inspect racks at the world 10 ball. They probably got a verbal warning. Seconds probably would be a rack forfeit. Just guessing though.

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In general I think it's perfectly ok to inspect so you can better decide where to break from. But I believe in tournaments the time clock (if being used) should start when the ref steps back.
 
Pete said:
In general I think it's perfectly ok to inspect so you can better decide where to break from. But I believe in tournaments the time clock (if being used) should start when the ref steps back.
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Yuk yuk yuketty yuk.
 
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