Intentional Double Hit

[iusedtoberich]

So in 9 ball if the 9 ball is sitting in the corner pocket and I have no shot at it. If I take my cue and hit the 9 directly in the corner with out using the cue ball, this is just a standard foul. The 9 ball is just spotted and the opponent gets ball in hand?

No it's not. That's 100% unsportsmanlike conduct and a loss of game.

 

[iusedtoberich]

So what did you give you on the chess board to equal the 5 and 7; the queen and a rook? (I'd need the other rook and both knights too.)

haha I stunk at chess, barely knew the rules. He beat everyone in the room like a drum in chess. After a couple months, someone brought in the top player in Philly to play him in speed chess, thinking they'd sneak up on each other. Of course they knew each other, and it was no match for the Russian guy. I suppose it was like bringing in the top pool player from one city to another, of course they know each other.

I just asked chatgpt about him, I forgot his full name, but chatgpt got it right from the little info I gave it. This was the guy:

 

[Bob Jewett]

haha I stunk at chess, barely knew the rules. He beat everyone in the room like a drum in chess....

Chess is deep. At a 2350 rating, he is barely in the top 3000 world wide.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Dredging this thread back up after 20 years - have any updates been made to the rules since then or is this still a grey area?

Asking because it happened during a match yesterday. Both of us are seasoned players and we also had a touring pro, Boris Ivanovski, around us but we didn't really come up with a conclusion other than that it's a grey area. We were going to ask John Leyman his opinion next time we saw him, but I figured I'd ask AzB first.

Screenshot 1 - this was basically the situation in our match (other balls not shown for simplicity). My opponent purposefully pushed through the 7 to break up the dead combo. Legality here seems like a grey area.

Screenshot 2 - what if he pushed through the 7/8 cluster here? That oddly seems less legal.

Screenshot 3 - what if he pushes through with a super long follow through? Or intentionally miscues and scoop jumps over the cluster? Seems definitely not legal.

Screenshot 4 - what if he taps the cueball to reposition it and hits it again while it's moving to break up the cluster? Not legal without doubt.

I actually remember making this topic 20 years ago. Wow

 

[Sheldon]

So in 9 ball if the 9 ball is sitting in the corner pocket and I have no shot at it. If I take my cue and hit the 9 directly in the corner with out using the cue ball, this is just a standard foul. The 9 ball is just spotted and the opponent gets ball in hand?

Absolutely not. At least with a double hit, you can say you put a normal forward stroke on the cue ball.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Absolutely not. At least with a double hit, you can say you put a normal forward stroke on the cue ball.

I always agreed to this however, how do you determine intent? Someone who has perfected a double hit stroke should not be able to get away a double hit. The unsportsmanship intent is the same but just the stroke is perfected.

 

[Sheldon]

I always agreed to this however, how do you determine intent? Someone who has perfected a double hit stroke should not be able to get away a double hit. The unsportsmanship intent is the same but just the stroke is perfected.

Agreed. What make this situation complicated is that you have to judge intent, instead of a simple action.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Roll call! Who's still here after 20 years.

I think both the 1st post in this thread and the 20 year resurrection post could and should be treated as "unsportsmanlike conduct" and loss of game.

Since this thread was started, in one pocket, an intentionally double hit to freeze the CB to the tit is often now played a foul plus BIH.

I made the topic 20 years ago and I’m still here

To be clear, that wasn’t something I would have done if I was in that situation. If I remember correctly I had a debate with a friend at the poolhall over a situation like this which is why I asked here.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Lets say the 9-ball is hanging in the jaws of the corner pocket, and you are locked up in jail behind a cluster of balls. There is no way to kick and pocket the 9 to prevent an easy combination, and none of the balls the cueball is frozen to are in line with the 9 ball. If you intentionally follow thru and double hit the cueball so that your stick pushes it thru all the balls and you make the 9, even though it is an intentional foul, should that be loss of game?

Sounds like that would be very hard to do, but if the double hit is not one continuous follow through motion, I would clearly consider that would warrant an unsportsmanlike foul and loss of game.

 

[maha]

in a tourney you have a ref to make whatever decision he thinks applies and both have to live with it. so its fair for both.
so a player does what he does or wants and then get a decision.

in gambling you generally ask what he is going to do before it happens when seeing something strange developing. you dont sit in your chair and watch then complain.

most times if its a crazy thing we just put the balls back and its a do over. same as a trapped ball you just make him shoot it again.

in the super rare times both cannot come to an agreement you usually ask someone not involved to make the decision for both of you.

ive been gambling for so many decades and cant remember a time when we couldn't work it out. it just doesn't happen.