I don't think you read what happened, he did not use the cueball to make the 9, he just pushed it in with the cue. That is unsportsmanlike conduct and should have been loss of game.
Intentional hit on 9 ball with no attempt to touch cue ball
- Thread starter jchance
- Start date
I don't think you read what happened, he did not use the cueball to make the 9, he just pushed it in with the cue. That is unsportsmanlike conduct and should have been loss of game.
No way..unsportsmanlike conduct..loss of game.
No foul. Put the 9 ball back in original location and the shooter must hit the cue ball first. Now many pro tournaments will play that touching any balls even with clothing is a foul. But I have never seen an intentional touching of a ball, other than cb, which is bih whether intentional or not.
You cannot move an object ball directly with the cue. As an accident it is nomally put back as long as it did not come in contact with another ball, which makes it a foul. In this instance since the 9 dropped into the pocket it would likely be an auto foul, even as an accident.
But ANY ball moved with anything but the cueball is returned back to it's original position where the non-offending player thinks it was located or can be left in the new position, it is the choice of the non-offending player as to which they want.
In this case even ignoring unsportsmanlike conduct you "should" have been awarded ball in hand and the 9-ball is placed back over the side pocket where it was originally.
But ANY ball moved with anything but the cueball is returned back to it's original position where the non-offending player thinks it was located or can be left in the new position, it is the choice of the non-offending player as to which they want.
In this case even ignoring unsportsmanlike conduct you "should" have been awarded ball in hand and the 9-ball is placed back over the side pocket where it was originally.
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I have always contended that the action had to be inline with the rules so I can't be wrong if the rules dictate the outcome. If you foul, then the opponent gets ball in hand......that's what happened here, nothing more. If a ball needed to be replaced then the error is upon the referee...You can call him wrong if you like but since his opinion carries the day and yours does not I'm siding with him.
The question under debate has nothing to do with right or wrong since the rules in effect are the only judge. What we're really debating is weather the action qualified as unsportsmanlike conduct and therefore required a more severe penalty. If the rules stipulate that cueing the 9 ball or any ball other than the cue ball and pocketing it qualifies as a loss or unsportsmanlike conduct, then the rules carry the day.
Here, we have a case where the rules apparently did not stipulate a "loss of game" and even the referee gives the opponent BIH for the infraction according to his interpretation of the rules.
You could argue that it was in the rules; however, it seems that under the same rules the referee must observe it for the loss of game to apply and therefore all rules have been adhered to. No debate.
Why does everybody want to impose their own set of rules to apply to everyone else's tournaments?
Hell, they change the rules every year to remove or clarify some aspect of the game and in the end the American rules are nor necessarily aligned with the European rules.
I prefer to let the rules in effect speak for themselves.
Haven't you ever played in a tournament where they modified the rules?
Why do so many think that their interpretation of the rules is the only one that matters without exception? Is it just Ego?
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This has nothing at all to do with weather...
It might as well be the weather. I say it's cloudy, someone else says it's overcast and another will swear its gloomy.
I say the gloomy guy might be unsportsmanlike in his description because that term doesn't sit well with me.
Are we back in the realm of subjectivity again?
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spoken like a true banger. well played.
LMAO. You're one of those guys. You actually believe what you're actually typing. yeah, right, the tournament, who is playing 9ball, a game started in the US, decided they must modify a rule that would be an automatic loss but just failed to tell anyone or put in the rules?? LMAO
Hmmmm. Let's see, the referee said he couldn't enforce the loss of game rule unless he witnessed it.
There's no rule that states all fouls must be observed by a referee to be enforceable but apparently that was modified for this event and it seems the player was Not Notified that certain fouls had to be observed....otherwise he might have had a referee watch the shot and would have won the game.
It seems that tournaments don't always cover their bases and omissions do happen....despite the fact that you believe otherwise.
BTW, what does the fact the game was started in the U.S. have to do with it?
Do you imagine that it suddenly infuses some higher level of credibility?
Don't let your egocentrism cloud your reasoning.
People still do incompetent things in the good old USA even when running tournaments.
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Thanks for all your replies and opinions!
As the tournament was run by the French Billiards Federation, we were using their rules, which are here for anyone who understands French!
http://www.ffbillard.com/telechargements.html?dossier=23707&id_discipline=4
I had a read through and interestingly it seems that this case isn't properly accounted for in the rules. It is stated that hitting any ball other than the cue ball is a foul, but there is no mention of putting the illegally struck ball (in this case the 9) back to the position where it was before the foul.
That sounds like a fairer outcome - is that what is known as 'all ball fouls' rules? Maybe we need to get these rules added to the federation rulebook, so that this can be avoided in future! We're a fairly small community of pool players in France, so I'll lobby the representatives and see what we can do.
As the tournament was run by the French Billiards Federation, we were using their rules, which are here for anyone who understands French!
http://www.ffbillard.com/telechargements.html?dossier=23707&id_discipline=4
I had a read through and interestingly it seems that this case isn't properly accounted for in the rules. It is stated that hitting any ball other than the cue ball is a foul, but there is no mention of putting the illegally struck ball (in this case the 9) back to the position where it was before the foul.
That sounds like a fairer outcome - is that what is known as 'all ball fouls' rules? Maybe we need to get these rules added to the federation rulebook, so that this can be avoided in future! We're a fairly small community of pool players in France, so I'll lobby the representatives and see what we can do.
Because, just like in baseball, umpires blow calls. The ref blew this one and big time. He's never seen it before and thus, didn't know what to do. So, if he "raked" the balls, oh well, the ref didn't see it. Oh, he pushed a few of his balls in the hole when you turned your back... oh well. use some common sense.
Kicking your opponent in the sack while he's getting ready to play is only allowed in the American rules.
It's called a preemptive defense strategy.
We're the only country that does that but it only applies if you mistakenly believe your opponent has weapons of mass destruction in his pants.
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Thank You Jay !!!!!!!!!
wwjdwithca
Registered
You were correct in your interpretaion and yes, you were shafted
Purposely nocking the nine ball in the pocket without first striking the cue ball is an obvious Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul. The only question should have been loss of game or DQ. IMO it should have been loss of game. Anybody who says this is not an Unsportsmanlike foul probably has done them in the past, or thinks gamesmanship is OK as well.
Purposely nocking the nine ball in the pocket without first striking the cue ball is an obvious Unsportsmanlike Conduct foul. The only question should have been loss of game or DQ. IMO it should have been loss of game. Anybody who says this is not an Unsportsmanlike foul probably has done them in the past, or thinks gamesmanship is OK as well.
Enough with the strawman arguments...they carry no weight.
You claim it all boils down to common sense but I think that's naive.
If it were so commonsensical, this thread would have died out on day one with everyone in agreement.
It seems that's not the case.
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Now you are contradicting yourself. The rules don't mention this as a foul, therefore...
