Interesting...

lewdo26

Registered User will do
Silver Member
I think there was a DCP thread earlier about his difficulty with draw shots...

I never had much difficulty with that particular stroke, but lately, since I have put a lot of emphasis into not dropping my elbow, I noticed draw shots have become somewhat more effortless. I'm able to get more draw not hitting the CB as low.

It wasn't until reading this months BD, in an article by fundamentals meister, Mark Wilson, that I realized why: when you drop your shoulder your tip goes up...duh!

I think the anticipation of drawing the cueball (because it is a counter-intuitive stroke) makes people put their shoulder and muscle into it, and worse, jab and jump up.

So...the usual advice remains: stay down, follow-through, don't muscle it, etc...

But it might be that the main reason a certain level of players has problems with the draw stroke is that they are not hitting the CB where they intended as a consequence of dropping their elbow.
 

akaTrigger

Hi!
Silver Member
lewdo26 said:
I think there was a DCP thread earlier about his difficulty with draw shots...

I never had much difficulty with that particular stroke, but lately, since I have put a lot of emphasis into not dropping my elbow, I noticed draw shots have become somewhat more effortless. I'm able to get more draw not hitting the CB as low.

It wasn't until reading this months BD, in an article by fundamentals meister, Mark Wilson, that I realized why: when you drop your shoulder your tip goes up...duh!

I think the anticipation of drawing the cueball (because it is a counter-intuitive stroke) makes people put their shoulder and muscle into it, and worse, jab and jump up.

So...the usual advice remains: stay down, follow-through, don't muscle it, etc...

But it might be that the main reason a certain level of players has problems with the draw stroke is that they are not hitting the CB where they intended as a consequence of dropping their elbow.

Glad your back to posting... your posts have always been very helpful to me.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i've never had any problems whatsoever drawing the cue ball back. my problem is that i miss the shot when i shoot the long, straight in draw shot.

DCP
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is all true. However, the "usual advice" is a bit misleading. You do NOT followthrough...you FINISH your stroke. Followthrough happens because of a good natural finish. Followthrough is not something you make happen. The amount of followthrough necessary for a complete stroke is unique to each individual...there is NO standard amount of 'correct' followthrough. In a perfect pendulum swing each person will have a specific natural finish distance that is unique to them, based on their bridge length, grip position (perpendicular when cuetip is at CB), and body style. It may be 1" or 10", or anywhere in between. SPF instructors specialize in helping our students find their 'natural' bridge length and personal 'sweet spot'.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

lewdo26 said:
I think there was a DCP thread earlier about his difficulty with draw shots...

I never had much difficulty with that particular stroke, but lately, since I have put a lot of emphasis into not dropping my elbow, I noticed draw shots have become somewhat more effortless. I'm able to get more draw not hitting the CB as low.

It wasn't until reading this months BD, in an article by fundamentals meister, Mark Wilson, that I realized why: when you drop your shoulder your tip goes up...duh!

I think the anticipation of drawing the cueball (because it is a counter-intuitive stroke) makes people put their shoulder and muscle into it, and worse, jab and jump up.

So...the usual advice remains: stay down, follow-through, don't muscle it, etc...

But it might be that the main reason a certain level of players has problems with the draw stroke is that they are not hitting the CB where they intended as a consequence of dropping their elbow.
 

WesleyW

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
This is all true. However, the "usual advice" is a bit misleading. You do NOT followthrough...you FINISH your stroke. Followthrough happens because of a good natural finish. Followthrough is not something you make happen. The amount of followthrough necessary for a complete stroke is unique to each individual...there is NO standard amount of 'correct' followthrough. In a perfect pendulum swing each person will have a specific natural finish distance that is unique to them, based on their bridge length, grip position (perpendicular when cuetip is at CB), and body style. It may be 1" or 10", or anywhere in between. SPF instructors specialize in helping our students find their 'natural' bridge length and personal 'sweet spot'.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

With my experience on this, I surely agree with Scott Lee. I've played carom billiards for some time. I've played many situations where you need to draw the CB, but you can't have a followthrough more than like 2 inch, because in those situations, it would be a foul. So I've played draws with like 1" followthrough and it draws like 20". Actually, I don't even think it's necessary to finish your stroke. But finishing your stroke will make the draw much more easier. But if you finish your stroke with like 1", what Scott said, you can surely make a drawshot. So I definately agree, there is no standard amount of follow through.

I also stick with my first post. If you get your cue as level as possible, it's almost not possible to miss the drawshot. If you don't level it, you will aiming at the cloth. I think your brain will correct your stroke, not hitting the cloth. That's why you will hit center and not low.
 

gpeezy

for sale!
Power draw

Level cue, low ball, follow through, get the hell outta the way. Being fluid helps snatch the ball more I think.
 

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
Silver Member
I noted (with particular interest) your statement about dropping your elbow. This is a common problem for me...I also drop my elbow as can be seen in the video linked below.

I am unsure of how to go about correcting this. Do you (or anyone really) have any recommendations?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDXrMcWFgZc
 

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
mosconiac said:
I noted (with particular interest) your statement about dropping your elbow. This is a common problem for me...I also drop my elbow as can be seen in the video linked below.

I am unsure of how to go about correcting this. Do you (or anyone really) have any recommendations?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDXrMcWFgZc

This doesn't really answer your question, but I always recommend this Bob Jewett article when people ask about the pendulum stroke. I think it helps to get the rationale behind it. Hook up with one of the SPF instructors and they'll have your elbow pinned in no time.

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2004-02.pdf
 

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
mosconiac said:
I noted (with particular interest) your statement about dropping your elbow. This is a common problem for me...I also drop my elbow as can be seen in the video linked below.

I am unsure of how to go about correcting this. Do you (or anyone really) have any recommendations?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDXrMcWFgZc

A lot of it is the way you stand. You have your body (the right side of your ribcage) in the way of where a textbook stroke would finish. If you kept your shoulders in roughly the same position, but sidestepped your hips a little to the left, this would pull your torso out of the way. Then, to get your right arm back in line with the shot, you'd move your right elbow out from your body a little. It's important to move it exactly the right amount so that your right shoulder/elbow line is exactly in line with the shot.

Anyway, then, instead of dropping your elbow in order to get your right hand to move under your ribs and through the stroke, as you do now, you'd be able to freely swing your right hand from the back of your stroke all the way up to your right shoulder. This would be the finish of your pendulum, but in order for it to work for you, you have to get your body out of its way and give yourself room to stroke.

Since you're used to dropping your elbow, you'll need to adjust your positioning a little or else you'll be stroking into the cloth, but this should come naturally once you've got your elbow pinned and steady.

-Andrew
 

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
Silver Member
lewdo26: Sorry for hi-jacking your thread like this...

Andrew: Thanks for the insight. I think you are dead on about moving my hip to the left to open up the range of movement of the cue...and avoid the unwanted sideways movement of my elbow & hand.

I tried moving my hip to the left once upon a time (trying to mimick Jon Kucharo's body position), and it worked very well...my friend & opponent that day actually commented that I was shooting better than normal and asked if I was trying to be a Jon clone.

If it worked, why would I stop doing it you ask?!?!? That position didn't feel "natural" to me. Out of laziness (and embarassment about the cloning Jon comment), I allowed myself to ignore that I was shooting better that way and returned to what is "comfortable".

I need to swallow that unpleasant pill and practice until the better hip/body position becomes "natural".

Thank you for the kick in the pants!

If you don't remember Jon, here's and old clip of him from the 2000 US Open.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYuRFTbZZWE
 

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
Silver Member
Another note that backs up Andrews comments is that when I really crank thru the CB I will literally hit myself in the ribs/chest...painfully I might add.
 
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