iPAT drills vs. Pro Skill Drills

~jj~

~jj~

3 ball ghost is strong
Silver Member
Hello,

this is somewhat of a shot in the dark, but does anyone have experience with both of these resources enough to comment on which is better. I understand they are both really comprehensive, so maybe they somewhat overlap in content. Instead of dropping a couple hundred dollars or more on both systems and overwhelm myself, I was hoping for a little help in deciding between the two. At least as to which one should be purchased first.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this.
 
Both are great. They will test even a good stroke. If you are comfortable with your Process & Stroke one can certainly benefit from these drills......SPF=randyg
 
what are you hoping to achieve?

I have seen/done both. I prefer the ipat drills personally but the scoring system sux IMHO.
 
Save yourself some money and go with Dr. Dave's "Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots" Inside is everything you need to know.
 
thanks for the input so far.

I am familiar with VEPS and it looks great. I think i prefer something that has a nice log sheet associated with it so I can track my progress.

DAWG, if you have done both, could maybe elaborate on their similarities and differences? Which helped your game more? My goal is to improve and be as constructive with my practice time as possible. I am somewhere in the B range now.

Also keeping in mind that cost is a factor. Is the iPat book worth almost 2x the Pro-Skill Drills book?

thanks again
 
Ipat

I have done both and IPAT is way better. The scoring isn't that difficult if you have both the DVD and the handbook. If you have any questions when you first try the drills on how to score just PM me and I will help.

Liz Ford (WPBA Touring Pro) sells the IPAT package on her blog which I suggest you use as it also helps to sponsor her. Also, Liz will most likely answer any quesytions you have if you PM her on AZ. Here is her website:

http://sticksandballsandholes.blogspot.com/

Additionally, IPAT has a website where you can see how other players have scored (On Official Tests). Fun to compare yourself against Thorsten, Ralf, Jasmine and other pro's who have taken the test and use it as a tool. Here is the IPAT link to that website:

http://www.pat-billiard.com/PATRanking.aspx

Hope this helps

Wedge
 
If money is a factor, have you considered Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvements? In his drill book, he use the 9-ball ABCD index to gauge your shot making skill and a log to record your progress. You can get the drill book and DVD for about the cost of one volume of IPAT or Pro Skills Drill.

I have ProSkills Drill 4 on DVD, and I still find myself bringing Guaranteed Improvements to the pool hall when I do drills.

~jj~ said:
thanks for the input so far.

I am familiar with VEPS and it looks great. I think i prefer something that has a nice log sheet associated with it so I can track my progress.

DAWG, if you have done both, could maybe elaborate on their similarities and differences? Which helped your game more? My goal is to improve and be as constructive with my practice time as possible. I am somewhere in the B range now.

Also keeping in mind that cost is a factor. Is the iPat book worth almost 2x the Pro-Skill Drills book?

thanks again
Click to expand...
 
Hi ctyhntr,

Guaranteed improvement is actually the first drill set i bought. I love it and have gotten to B speed on most of the drills in there. I am looking for a little variety as I have been working those for over a year now.

Thanks for the input Wedge, I appreciate the comparison and the link.
 
As I mentioned, I prefer ipat's drills.

Actually, Ive reviewed both along with a bunch of other DVD's drills and collected a bunch of other drills here & there... I like that ipat scores you on a number of different area's & I like some of the drills they use...

Soooooooo.....

I hadn't mentioned it, and hadn't decided what to do with it... but I created a "test" / "training program" using all the drills I liked the best from every different "system" and DVD I'd seen...

I tried to make it as diverse as possible while using some of the drills that I not only thought were useful... but were also "fun" because Im using this training program/test with the people on my pool teams to try to help them improve... It covers a bunch of very specific skills and Ive categorized each type of skill each drill emphasizes... so actually of the 18 sub drills (we call the whole test, "the gauntlet" lol.) they actually fall into 6 sub tests, or sections... (I think it's 6 or 7... subsets are long position, short position, runout drills, stroke drills, specialty (banks, combos), rail drills, etc...) so you don't have to try to do the whole test at once.... Similar I guess to like the SAT or something... I have it broken into total score & percentile then sub-skill pertentile scores, etc... I was hoping to use the individual drill scores to pin point specific skills that showed where my team members needed improvement on... and then used these "fun" drills in those correspoding areas to not only improve but to be able to have tangible documentation of those improvements...

Seems to be working very well, Ive been fine tuning it by running test though my team mates, getting feedback, etc... I was thinking of posting the full system/test/exercises here. got a bit more fine tuning to do, and Ive swapped out a few drills for other drills in the test as Ive found others I liked better or were more well recieved my my team members... Also, making (made) them skill level specific... so it's optioned into A. B. & C. level... so I can give the same test to my low skill level players and my very high ones, I just change some things slightly... that part is built in. Ive also developed a couple "alternate" drills which can be interchanged within the test if people prefer them... (more "fun" for the individual, or even more of less challenging)

Depending on the interest, I will post up the entire system here for free soon.
 
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Outstanding

Beware_of_Dawg said:
As I mentioned, I prefer ipat's drills.

Actually, Ive reviewed both along with a bunch of other DVD's drills and collected a bunch of other drills here & there... I like that ipat scores you on a number of different area's & I like some of the drills they use...

Soooooooo.....

I hadn't mentioned it, and hadn't decided what to do with it... but I created a "test" / "training program" using all the drills I liked the best from every different "system" and DVD I'd seen...

I tried to make it as diverse as possible while using some of the drills that I not only thought were useful... but were also "fun" because Im using this training program/test with the people on my pool teams to try to help them improve... It covers a bunch of very specific skills and Ive categorized each type of skill each drill emphasizes... so actually of the 18 sub drills (we call the whole test, "the gauntlet" lol.) they actually fall into 6 sub tests, or sections... (I think it's 6 or 7... subsets are long position, short position, runout drills, stroke drills, specialty (banks, combos), rail drills, etc...) so you don't have to try to do the whole test at once.... Similar I guess to like the SAT or something... I have it broken into total score & percentile then sub-skill pertentile scores, etc... I was hoping to use the individual drill scores to pin point specific skills that showed where my team members needed improvement on... and then used these "fun" drills in those correspoding areas to not only improve but to be able to have tangible documentation of those improvements...

Seems to be working very well, Ive been fine tuning it by running test though my team mates, getting feedback, etc... I was thinking of posting the full system/test/exercises here. got a bit more fine tuning to do, and Ive swapped out a few drills for other drills in the test as Ive found others I liked better or were more well recieved my my team members... Also, making (made) them skill level specific... so it's optioned into A. B. & C. level... so I can give the same test to my low skill level players and my very high ones, I just change some things slightly... that part is built in. Ive also developed a couple "alternate" drills which can be interchanged within the test if people prefer them... (more "fun" for the individual, or even more of less challenging)

Depending on the interest, I will post up the entire system here for free soon.
Click to expand...

I really like your approach to a new combined system...look forward to seeing and using it!!! Thanks Dawg
 
Beware_of_Dawg said:
As I mentioned, I prefer ipat's drills.

Actually, Ive reviewed both along with a bunch of other DVD's drills and collected a bunch of other drills here & there... I like that ipat scores you on a number of different area's & I like some of the drills they use...

Soooooooo.....

I hadn't mentioned it, and hadn't decided what to do with it... but I created a "test" / "training program" using all the drills I liked the best from every different "system" and DVD I'd seen...

I tried to make it as diverse as possible while using some of the drills that I not only thought were useful... but were also "fun" because Im using this training program/test with the people on my pool teams to try to help them improve... It covers a bunch of very specific skills and Ive categorized each type of skill each drill emphasizes... so actually of the 18 sub drills (we call the whole test, "the gauntlet" lol.) they actually fall into 6 sub tests, or sections... (I think it's 6 or 7... subsets are long position, short position, runout drills, stroke drills, specialty (banks, combos), rail drills, etc...) so you don't have to try to do the whole test at once.... Similar I guess to like the SAT or something... I have it broken into total score & percentile then sub-skill pertentile scores, etc... I was hoping to use the individual drill scores to pin point specific skills that showed where my team members needed improvement on... and then used these "fun" drills in those correspoding areas to not only improve but to be able to have tangible documentation of those improvements...

Seems to be working very well, Ive been fine tuning it by running test though my team mates, getting feedback, etc... I was thinking of posting the full system/test/exercises here. got a bit more fine tuning to do, and Ive swapped out a few drills for other drills in the test as Ive found others I liked better or were more well recieved my my team members... Also, making (made) them skill level specific... so it's optioned into A. B. & C. level... so I can give the same test to my low skill level players and my very high ones, I just change some things slightly... that part is built in. Ive also developed a couple "alternate" drills which can be interchanged within the test if people prefer them... (more "fun" for the individual, or even more of less challenging)

Depending on the interest, I will post up the entire system here for free soon.
Click to expand...
Put me down as another who would be interested in your combined system. It sounds like it's a well thought out approach.
 
Wedge said:
I really like your approach to a new combined system...look forward to seeing and using it!!! Thanks Dawg
Click to expand...

thanks bro, I should start a post about this to gauge interest amybe that will either motivate me to slap the polish on it and bring her out of the garage for everyone to ride or maybe the opposite, LOL!.

Its pretty much fine tuned & finished (pats self on back, LOL. I like it alot more than anything else Ive trained with. and not cause I made it, LOL) Alot of it really is typing out the specific scoring system used on each individual drill. There are like 18 total drills I think, some long, some short, that combined have been worked into EXACTLY 500 points (max score) (I know in my head exactly how to score it and can expalin every drill to my teammates with ease... and have made subtle changes as I noticed the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of the scoring system I was using)... SO I just need to type down the specifics, the drills are documented & all the graphics are perfect, and the score cards & system are done too... just need to get it out of the oven, and put her on a plate...
 
If I can help I will

Beware_of_Dawg said:
thanks bro, I should start a post about this to gauge interest amybe that will either motivate me to slap the polish on it and bring her out of the garage for everyone to ride or maybe the opposite, LOL!.

Its pretty much fine tuned & finished (pats self on back, LOL. I like it alot more than anything else Ive trained with. and not cause I made it, LOL) Alot of it really is typing out the specific scoring system used on each individual drill. There are like 18 total drills I think, some long, some short, that combined have been worked into EXACTLY 500 points (max score) (I know in my head exactly how to score it and can expalin every drill to my teammates with ease... and have made subtle changes as I noticed the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of the scoring system I was using)... SO I just need to type down the specifics, the drills are documented & all the graphics are perfect, and the score cards & system are done too... just need to get it out of the oven, and put her on a plate...
Click to expand...

very familiar with PAT 1, 2 & 3 and how difficult it is to score the first time if you don't have the DVD. So, if you want me to review the ease of your system's scoring I would be glad to help. Just email me the final product prior to sending to the general public. My emal is frank.wojciechowski@smithsdetection.com
 
Wedge said:
very familiar with PAT 1, 2 & 3 and how difficult it is to score the first time if you don't have the DVD. So, if you want me to review the ease of your system's scoring I would be glad to help. Just email me the final product prior to sending to the general public. My emal is frank.wojciechowski@smithsdetection.com
Click to expand...

Here's the thread I started about this subject

thread here

Ill chat with you there about the scoring system I divised....

Im dead sure its easy & effective... (afterall my target group to entertain and get buy-in from was the full gambit of skill levels from new team members to high skill level ones... keeping all those ADD driven nutbags (including me) entertained, focused at once is quite an undertaking, lol.)

I worked pretty hard on figuring out exact drills, scoring, scoring sub sets, percentiles and everything else to make sure mathematically it was simple as pie but cohesive in the big picture of what I was trying to create.... (effective test/system/training program)
 
I've worked with all of the systems mentioned here so far. IPAT, Pro Skills, Guaranteed Improvement, and VEPS. I would say that they each provide value in their own way.

If I want to work on my 1, 2, or 3 rail positions I go to my Guaranteed Improvement book & DVD.

If I want to work on frozon rail shots I go to the IPAT drills that test that.

If I want to work on the straightness of my stroke I go to Pro Skills.

If I have questions about the how and why things work the way they do I go to the Issultrated Principles of Pool & Billiards and the VEPS DVD's.

The point I am trying to make is that you will need more than 1 resource to get the big picture. No single book, DVD, or training program will give you EVERYTHING you need.

I am glad that it seems most prefer the IPAT system. I am a huge supporter of the IPAT system and count myself among the very few in the USA that have actually taken an official exam. I am especially looking forward to the release of the APAT system. It's only available in German right now, but I have heard that someone is working on improving the english transation.
 
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