IPT at Hard Times

[jay helfert]

A few observations:
Amazingly strong field, absolutely world class! 75 players strong and only a few 'shortstops'.
To reach the final two here was like winning a major tournament. Oliver and Orcullo were the class of this strong field, playing great match after match. They earned it and deserved it.
A few shenaningans went on between some unnamed players regarding the $1,000 bonus for banking the eight. Deno picked up on it and called a halt to a nice bonus opportunity. Not before some 30K was awarded. Ortmann and Wu won 5K each for running six racks.
KT was high profile all weekend hanging out with the players and fans and schmoozing about the tour. He really seems to enjoy sweating the matches, especially when Mike plays. Sigel is getting to play a lot and his game is coming around. He will be a factor on tour but not one of the best players.
Some grumbling from players about all the qualifiers so far and the 25 yet to come before event number one in July. A lot of money going out and not much coming back in. Many players are going to be ground down trying to qualify.
Conclusion: If you are not already on the IPT, getting on now is like hitting the lottery. And a lot more expensive.

 

[cuechick]

Some grumbling from players about all the qualifiers so far and the 25 yet to come before event number one in July.

I am not sure I understand this statement?

As far as no money going out...i.e.: no payouts for the Q'ers? I am not surprised that some players are upset but that is the whole problem with the sport. Why are so many short sighted? Is it the hustler's mentality? If pool is to ever get to the next level, players need to look at the long hall, not just the short term win. What KT is doing with these, is weeding out the uncommitted. The fact the 70+ players traveled and played in this event is astounding... to complain about it, when they knew the terms, is childish.
Don't like it, don't play.

 

[Jimmy M.]

I am not sure I understand this statement?

As far as no money going out...i.e.: no payouts for the Q'ers? I am not surprised that some players are upset but that is the whole problem with the sport. Why are so many short sighted? Is it the hustler's mentality? If pool is to ever get to the next level, players need to look at the long hall, not just the short term win. What KT is doing with these, is weeding out the uncommitted. The fact the 70+ players traveled and played in this event is astounding... to complain about it, when they knew the terms, is childish.
Don't like it, don't play.

If people were grumbling I'm sure it's because they can't afford to keep trying to qualify and many of those people play way too good not to be trying to qualify. They can get stakehorses, and many have, but even the stakehorses have to call it quits, at some point, if their horses haven't qualified yet.

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

Wow glad to see that Cliff Joyner won his game against Siegel,the next two entries are free, good for him KICK some butt Cliffie

 

[CrownCityCorey]

If people were grumbling I'm sure it's because they can't afford to keep trying to qualify and many of those people play way too good not to be trying to qualify. They can get stakehorses, and many have, but even the stakehorses have to call it quits, at some point, if their horses haven't qualified yet.

Many of us were talking about just that. Many of the guys have hit all the Qualifiers so far and just can't keep it up. Before the Weert, Netherlands event poped up, we calculated overall expenses for the 4 q'ers to be about 12k.

Now, if you don't q'fy in one of those 4, you play the "Open" q'fyrs and those are 1k each to enter and you still have to get top 2. Many are just gonna save it for the year end event where 50 players make it.

I wonder if that entry fee will be 5k plus?

 

[CrownCityCorey]

Wow glad to see that Cliff Joyner won his game against Siegel,the next two entries are free, good for him KICK some butt Cliffie

This was an opportunity that many of us were hanging out waiting for on Sunday, but they only picked 2 names out a hat to play Mike. Both beat him.

 

[hilla_hilla]

Orcullo, Ortmann and Chu were the favorites from the beginning of the tournament.

The smarter thing to do is wait until they have the 50 open spots.

$2000 is a lot of money for even a stakehorse to continuously come up with. Eventually, players are going to quit trying to come up with the cash (the top players will have all the money and it will always be the same top players) to qualify and the tour will cease to exist.

 

[jay helfert]

If people were grumbling I'm sure it's because they can't afford to keep trying to qualify and many of those people play way too good not to be trying to qualify. They can get stakehorses, and many have, but even the stakehorses have to call it quits, at some point, if their horses haven't qualified yet.

Correctalamundo!

 

[TheOne]

Many of us were talking about just that. Many of the guys have hit all the Qualifiers so far and just can't keep it up. Before the Weert, Netherlands event poped up, we calculated overall expenses for the 4 q'ers to be about 12k.

Now, if you don't q'fy in one of those 4, you play the "Open" q'fyrs and those are 1k each to enter and you still have to get top 2. Many are just gonna save it for the year end event where 50 players make it.

I wonder if that entry fee will be 5k plus?

Excellent post, its a drum that I've been beating for sometime, its what all the players that didn't make the IPT for whatever reason are saying. The IPT has added kickbacks but at the end of the day what the PLAYERS want are an end to these opressive entry fees. One one hand 150 players get FREE entry, and the rest have to stump up what you have correctly outlined. It's not right, comeon IPT, are you listening, most people believe in your tour and want to be part of it, make it fair and lets have an:

Open and Free IPT!

It was obvious to me when the format and dates where released that the end of year qualifiers where the best value for money, however like you said if it was 2k to win a guaranteed 13k what will the entry be to win a guaranteed 100k?

There is a world full of pool rooms willing and able to hold large qualifiers, $500 entries have been shown to restrict fields (US Open, WPC Qualifiers etc.) so there is no need for this. The IPT players don't want it changed, they get a share of the qualifiers cash and they sure as hell don't want another 50 champions on the tour as they want to keep their own spots.

How do we get this changed?

 

[frankncali]

Q school for the PGA tour will cost about 5500 and there are multiple stages.
I think the biggest problem with the current qualifiers is that only 2 people
make it. If it were 2k entry and maybe 8 or so made it then I think
players would view it differently.

I also think it would have been better to have only 1 or 2 qualifiers and
have more people make it per event. It would save on expenses and for guys for oversees it would make it much more feasable and reasonable to attend thus getting the best at each event.

I am sure that most all the good players out there feel that they deserve to have been picked. IMO the deeper the field the tougher it would
get to decide who makes it and who does not. Looking for the top 100 is way easier than the top 300. Maybe he went with 100 and then filled the
150 with some handpicks for the tour startup.

How many of us really new about Orcullo or Melling. I still dont know who Mark Trainer is but he faired pretty well. The canadian, Hjorliefson, came to play and I dont think many knew of him. I only hope that players are able to play their way onto the tour somehow.

Right now there is the IPT and then very little below it to hone the skills needed. Here in the far west there are really very few mini tour trails.
I hope somehow the IPT is able to have a division under the top players.

If at all possible I will be at the first Vegas event(watching) and hopefully everything will go smoothly. There are certainly going to be players that did not make it but hopefully they will at least be able to set their sites on something. In the past there really has not been anything other than a
tournament or two to look forward to or work for

 

[enzo]

yeah, right now you have names like hoa, morro, wu, foldes, and joyner (to name a few) that have played in ipt qualifiers, but not yet qualified. i feel it's hard to justify putting up $2000 even if you play very well at the local level. if you're not getting sponsored, the risk vs the small chance at reward is simply just not worth it.

i would love to see something simiar to surfing in the future where there is an entire sub-tour for qualifing. the 50 players with the highest number of points at the end of the year will get their card. players who are in jeopardy of losing their cards could play in the qualifing tour as well to ensure they retain their card if they do well in the qualifiers.

i see this as a very good way to promote interest in the ipt and develop the skills of young players.

there are a million problems and solutions right now, i just thought i'd throw that idea out as food for thought-- i think it's good idea to look at formats that have been successful in other sports. in any case, it's a vey exciting time and i look forward to seeing what happens.

 

[1 Pocket Ghost]

I am not sure I understand this statement?

As far as no money going out...i.e.: no payouts for the Q'ers? I am not surprised that some players are upset but that is the whole problem with the sport. Why are so many short sighted? Is it the hustler's mentality? If pool is to ever get to the next level, players need to look at the long hall, not just the short term win. What KT is doing with these, is weeding out the uncommitted. The fact the 70+ players traveled and played in this event is astounding... to complain about it, when they knew the terms, is childish.
Don't like it, don't play.

You are in desperate need of perspective...
You said: "Why are so many short sighted? Is it the hustler's mentality?" - No, it's the mentality of wanting to have enough money to eat and have a roof over your head and for entry fees.....You say that: "KT is weeding out the uncommited" - no, the reality is, most pool players don't have a lot of money, so what he might "weed out" is the players who just can't afford to keep paying $4,000 for entries and traveling expenses........You call these players uncommitted ? - You have no clue as to the extreme commitment of all of these pool players. You said: "to complain about it, when they knew the terms, is childish" - Well, I'll tell you what...

....just like these pool players have to do, why don't you pay the place where you work $4,000 just to allow you to go to work this month, and then at work you have to triumph over 35 to 1 odds against you - if you don't beat the 35 to 1 odds then you pay your job another $4,000 next month, and keep doing that every month just on the chance that some month you beat the odds and then MAYBE down the road you'll eventually get paid some money..........Well, I guess if you don't care much for the idea of your job making you have to do all of that just for the very slim possibility of getting paid for all of that time and work, then I guess you must be "childish" and "uncommitted".

 

[Jimmy M.]

Q school for the PGA tour will cost about 5500 and there are multiple stages.

Hi Frank. I know what you're saying about only 2 people getting in, but another thing that I would have to point out here is that the PGA Tour is an established tour. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that if you make it to the PGA Tour, you WILL make money, provided you can make some cuts, and you WILL get paid if you do make cuts. I'm not saying this isn't the case with the IPT. However, it isn't an established fact yet that the IPT will even exist after 2007 and it isn't an established fact that it will even last that long. Now, JAM and jjinfla, don't jump on me just yet. I do think that KT will follow through with everything he's said he's going to do so far, but the fact remains that, in my opinion, making it as expensive to qualify for the IPT as it would be for the PGA Tour isn't justified because the IPT doesn't have the established history that the PGA Tour does. Hopefully, in a half-dozen year's time, that won't be true anymore and all of us pool players, even shortstops like me, will be rolling in the dough.

 

[frankncali]

Hi Frank. I know what you're saying about only 2 people getting in, but another thing that I would have to point out here is that the PGA Tour is an established tour. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that if you make it to the PGA Tour, you WILL make money, provided you can make some cuts, and you WILL get paid if you do make cuts. I'm not saying this isn't the case with the IPT. However, it isn't an established fact yet that the IPT will even exist after 2007 and it isn't an established fact that it will even last that long. Now, JAM and jjinfla, don't jump on me just yet. I do think that KT will follow through with everything he's said he's going to do so far, but the fact remains that, in my opinion, making it as expensive to qualify for the IPT as it would be for the PGA Tour isn't justified because the IPT doesn't have the established history that the PGA Tour does. Hopefully, in a half-dozen year's time, that won't be true anymore and all of us pool players, even shortstops like me, will be rolling in the dough.

I agree and understand your point.
I actually think it took a guy like KT to start this far along. If successful the IPT will have skipped a few years of growing.
Someone else mentioned a tour under the IPT to establish placement. For
pool to be successful at a Pro level I think this level is needed. There will only be 200 players playing and there are literally 10s of thousands that
play. Granted in golf there are tons of players but limited pros but there is
a major difference and that is the under tours and that there are 100s of weekly events and dogfights. Organizing the rest of the pool world will
be interesting after the IPT is established.

I was surprised to see KT go with 5 smaller events. Think about bringing
in players to two locations and having tow grand events. Both could be made for TV and really would have added to the growth of the IPT.
Fans would have been able to watch the new guys fight to join the established guys. Sigel could have taken on randomly drawn challengers which would have certainly drawn interest and a TV crowd.
I would think the having only two events would have made it easier for the
IPT to organize and run the quaifiers. Maybe the top 4 got their card and
the 5-8 guys got invites to the first event. If done in two events 8 people would have gotten permanent cards and 16 more would have at least have gotten a shot at one event. I think two others could have been given to a sponsor or used for week of qualifiers. After this year the spots would be filled.
I made the remard to a couple guys in the HT event that IMO it would be easier to stay on tour than to make it through these sessions of qualifiers and get the card. Both agreed. I really wonder after each year will the players on tour really change. If it stays a 100 then thats really not that many. The other 50-100 would not have that many spots in jeopardy.

 

[TheOne]

Let me predict that the guys that have gone to many of the qualifiers willget rewarded in some way, eg they will either get invites to the two open events or they will go on a short list in case anyone else drops out. I also think that 1 or 2 of them may get wild card invites at the end of the year, you heard it here first

 

[jjinfla]

I have had the same feeling. Turn the first tournament into an open/invitational.

Be nice to your friends - stomp the bejeesus out of your enemies.

 

[jjinfla]

Yes there are problems with the selection process but keep in mind that the IPT will be full after two more qualifiers. KT is only looking for 4 more players. It is not an easy task.

When you only need 4 more players then no matter what you do people will find fault with it.

KT's system must be working since he will have a full tour of 150. And no one is forcing anyone to enter the qualifiers. If people think it is not fair, or too hard, then they should not apply.

What is that old Bible quote that comes to mind, "Although many are called, few are chosen." I probably got it wrong but could it have been said for pool? LOL

Jake

 

[1 Pocket Ghost]

Let me predict that the guys that have gone to many of the qualifiers willget rewarded in some way, eg they will either get invites to the two open events or they will go on a short list in case anyone else drops out. I also think that 1 or 2 of them may get wild card invites at the end of the year, you heard it here first

I don't know if similar things to what you predict will happen, but I think it would be a righteous thing for K.T. to do - and good for 'pool player morale'.

 

[Str8PoolMan]

Q school for the PGA tour will cost about 5500 and there are multiple stages.

The PGA Tour qualifying school also has prize payouts (something that's missing on the IPT). The purse for the final stage in 2005 was over $1,000,000, with the top player receiving $50,000 and the top 30 plus ties receiving at least $25,000. The top 30 plus ties (32 this year) also qualified for full exemption status on the PGA Tour. The next 46 finishers earned full exemption on the Nationwide Tour.

 

[Scottster]

There is a world full of pool rooms willing and able to hold large qualifiers, $500 entries have been shown to restrict fields (US Open, WPC Qualifiers etc.) so there is no need for this. The IPT players don't want it changed, they get a share of the qualifiers cash and they sure as hell don't want another 50 champions on the tour as they want to keep their own spots.

How do we get this changed?

This will change once the tour officially kicks off. The players that dont belong will sink to the bottom. Once the "Open" events start, the players that deserve to be on the tour, if they will swallow their pride, turn the anger into fuel to prove to the world they belong there, will be allwoed to compete and their winnings will be used to determine their qualification for the next years card. The ones that got the gift of membership will be replaced by the world beaters placing high in the open events and winning more money in them then the ones that currently dont belong on the tour.
To all those players that dont belong ( you know who you are) enjoy the KT charity... while it lasts.