IPT Jeopardizes other events in the World

[Dr. Dissent]

The IPT is definitely not saying the "whole truth".....See this letter below:


Dear Barry,

I have received today the press release in relation to the IPT calendar and the Reno event clashing with the US 9 Ball Open Championship.

As well as being President of the BPPPA, I am also the Tournament Organiser for the newly formed World Pool Management (WPM) which, working closely with the WPA, intends to promote a new World Tour which includes 9 Ball events in Great Britain, Thailand, UAE, The Netherlands, Taiwan and the United States.

The first event event which was proposed on our 2006 -2007 calendar is the British 9 Ball Open Championship which was originally scheduled for February 2006. This inaugural Tournament carries a first prize of US$100,000 and a total prize fund of US$265,000. However, with this being our first event it obviously does not yet hold the prestige that is associated with the US 9 Ball open Championship and therefore has not received much publicity in regard
to the fact that we had to reschedule the event owing to the IPT date clashing with their qualifying events at the same time.

The British 9 Ball Open Championship will be WPA sanctioned and we fully support the WPA for their commitment to the sport and for their long term objectives. It is a shame that many are ignorant to the hard work the WPA undertake and the goals they have achieved to date.

Consequently, and in a similar position to everyone else, we are struggling to find an alternative date which does not conflict with the World pool calendar. As you are no doubt aware, renegotiating with Broadcasters and sponsors is no easy task but has to be accomplished for the success of the event.

Like yourself and the WPA, we too were not contacted in advance by the IPT and I question the veracity of Mr Andrews statement.

I totally understand your predicament and sincerely share your your feelings of disappointment.

Best regards,

TED

Ted Bristow

President,
Sports and Tournament Director
B.P.P.P.A.
British Professional Pool Players Association

ted.bristow@bpppa.org
www.bpppa.org

 

[JAM]

The civil unrest in the States is manifesting itself into a world war. Is it a power struggle, or is it more about money?

In the long run, who stands to lose the most?

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

The civil unrest in the States is manifesting itself into a world war. Is it a power struggle, or is it more about money?

In the long run, who stands to lose the most?

JAM

The people that have put their faith in the IPT and Kevin Trudeau.

 

[JAM]

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert Einstein

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." - Albert Einstein

JAM

Our character...is an omen of our destiny, and the more integrity we have and keep, the simpler and nobler that destiny is likely to be. - George Santayana

 

[JAM]

The most pathetic person in the world is someone who has sight but has no vision. -Helen Keller

JAM

 

[SlimShafty]

Reasonable men adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable men attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable men.
George Bernard Shaw

I'm glad an unreasonable man is in control of the IPT

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

The longest journey,begins not with a single step,but with a hit of speed and a carton of cigarettes........ Smorgass Bored

Why do you hijack every thread with total silliness, are adults not allowed to have a serious conversation on this site without being hijacked by you every time?

 

[8-ball bernie]

IF: the current state of cuesports was in high gear, i would feel sympathy for the other tours.
IF: everyone around the world, mothers,sisters,daughters knew the names of the professional pool players i would feel sympathy for the other tours.
IF: pool in general was bigger than golf i would sympathize with all the directors.
IF: pool was a big happening event, which was sold out years in advance, i would feel somewhat sad, for the ipt cutting into your life's.

the truth of the matter is, pool is as popular as adolf hitler at a bah mitzfa.

calm down smoke a cigar relax, and let the ipt begin, maybe by january of 2007 everyone and their mother will know the names of the professional pool players,~~~~~~~ FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY!!!!!

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

Originally Posted by Smorgass Bored
The longest journey,begins not with a single step,but with a hit of speed and a carton of cigarettes........ Smorgass Bored

Why do you hijack every thread with total silliness, are adults not allowed to have a serious conversation on this site without being hijacked by you every time?


Sorry, that was the most prophetic quote that I could come up with on the spur of the moment. Don't take yourself so seriously.... imo
Doug

Then why don't you show people some respect when they are having a real discussion. You do this crap in every thread.

 

[Blackjack]

IF: the current state of cuesports was in high gear, i would feel sympathy for the other tours.
IF: everyone around the world, mothers,sisters,daughters knew the names of the professional pool players i would feel sympathy for the other tours.
IF: pool in general was bigger than golf i would sympathize with all the directors.
IF: pool was a big happening event, which was sold out years in advance, i would feel somewhat sad, for the ipt cutting into your life's.

the truth of the matter is, pool is as popular as adolf hitler at a bah mitzfa.

calm down smoke a cigar relax, and let the ipt begin, maybe by january of 2007 everyone and their mother will know the names of the professional pool players,~~~~~~~ FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY!!!!!

Bernie,
You make me smile.
I have some questions. Where were you before the IPT showed up? Did you do anything to support any of the tours that were struggling? Were you trying to do anything either at the table or off the table to advance the game of pool in any way, or have you just surfaced for the IPT? I'm not attacking you with those questions, I would just like an answer, you can PM me if you want with your answers. I promise to remain respectful with you unconditionally, no matter what side you are on or who you play for - I promise I won't talk with you about anything except the facts. But, I have a few more questions -

Can you tell me who the top sponsors have been for professional events over the past 8 years? If you know who those sponsors are, can you tell me the names of the VP's of these companies that are responsible for organizing the events, calculating payouts, and their reasoning for the low payouts? Have you ever promoted an event? Have you ever heard what its like to get what is known as "added money"? Have you any knowledge of how much work and preparation goes into promoting an event? If you don't, talk to Eydie Romano. She can fill you in very well. Its not easy. It also sucks when some jerk takes credit for all of your hard work and claims that your event was a success because he's in the game all of a sudden.

We can toss this ball back and forth, but the fact remains that pool's status is in this shape because very few people were putting in any effort to advance it. That's the honest truth. Some people won't look at that honestly. That the facts. Also,there are internal problems within the game of pool that exist beneath the surface (for some its at the surface) and these problems will not go away just because there is more money in the prize funds for the IPT. Everybody is still not going to be on the same sheet of music, only now they will have more money when they argue with each other. Great.

There is also this arrogant attitude that thinks that pool in the United States sets the standard for the world. That hasnt been true for years. 15years to be exact. We've lagged behind Asia and Europe because of our lack of organization. Professional pool in the U.S. has been in a nose dive since it distanced itself from the BCA in the late 1980's. Over the past few years steps have been taken to mend broken fences and to advance the professional game by supporting the WPA and sanctioning our events to meet their standards so that pool can have a global impact and achieve recognition by the IOC. Anyone that says that advances have not been made in billiards (collectively - billiards, pool, snooker) does not know what they are talking about. Dr. Dissent can fill you in more on that because he knows more about this than I do.

I find it difficult to sit back and allow anybody to say that the past 15 years have been a waste of time. Personally, I take offense to that, especialy when I hear it from people that weren't doing their share. The fact that pool has a strong presence in Europe, Australia, and Asia is the result of people working their butts off in organizations that you have never heard of. The next IPT event you go to, pull Ralf Eckert aside and rattle off your "IF list" to him and see what kind of a reaction he gives you. He is one of the gentleman that has put in 20 hour days for years to advance this game at the global level for organizations you couldn't tell me squat about. If you don't believe that, look at the strong European presence on the IPT. Need I say more?

My chief argument is if this is "International" - and Mr. Trudeau really cares about pool, then why did he not try to advance the game by assisting the organizations that were already in place? He claims they don't exist. You claim he can do whatever he wants with his money -that's true- but that's not a reason, its an excuse for him to be uncooperative and run his own ship. He said that himself. It shows people that know better that this has less to do about pool than it has to do with his ability to finance it. Sit back and ask yourself what would happen if the NY State Attorney's Office succeeds in what they plan to do with Kevin Trudeau. Where does that leave pocket billiards if he decides to recklessly wipe out everything besides the IPT?

I've said it before and I will say it again, I really believe that pool needs go down in flames just one more time. Obviously pool didn't learn what they should have learned back in 1999 when we were left with nothing (were you around for that, Bernie? I was - seen Don Mackey around lately? I haven't.) I really believe it needs to go through that again to get everybody's attention. If pool is going to advance, then as a united industry (players, manufacturers, promoters,vendors, whatever) need to work their butts off to achieve that success. Pool (as a community) owns none of this. Pool is not a shareholder in any of this, neither are you as a player. This can go down in flames tomorrow and all you will be able to do as a player is sit there and watch, much like we did when the Camel Tour folded. Money is nice, money can buy you things, but easy come, easy go. Money isn't everything.

JAM, I have no reason to argue with you about this. You and I have spoken about issues in the sport in the past, and we agree on more than we disagree with. You have taken my opposition to the IPT personal, something I tried to avoid when I called your home a few months ago. For some reason I talked to Keith for about an hour waiting for a chance to discuss this with you, it never happened, I'm not sure why. You've never addressed that. I wish you and Keith nothing but the best of luck with the IPT. I hope Keith gets to score a big pay day - its long overdue for both of you. I told Keith that when I spoke to him. If this thing goes into the crapper at some point, I will still be around doing what I have been trying to do for the past 20 years, which is to leave pool in better shape than I found it. I will also be here if you need me to assist you in any way, despite the back and forth garbage that has been in these threads. For those that want to debate me about anything I have said in any of these threads - dont bother - you won't change my mind. Please understand that I have been in the trenches trying for a very long time to avoid having players put in another position such as this where they hold no stock in ownership or say so in the tour they play on. Instead of arguing and debating with me, bring these issues up with Deno or KT and see how far you get. Until this issue is addressed within the IPT, and until they work with (instead of working against) the existing bodies such as the WPA and WCBS - I will not support it and I will view it as a renegade tour with incompetent leadership. That doesn't mean I don't like you. It just means we disagree when it comes to the IPT. I wish you all the best on the tour this year, Bernie. Knock 'em dead.

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

I think you are exaggerating just a bit.I'm hardly in every thread.Maybe 2%-3%. I don't think that my one sentence hijacked this thread. But,just in case you're onto something,I'll try to do better.... OK?
Doug
(now, if you'll delete your posts quoting me,I'll delete mine and then this thread may continue on it's pristine way.... OK?)

No I won't delete my post.

 

[Timberly]

I think you are exaggerating just a bit.I'm hardly in every thread.Maybe 2%-3%. I don't think that my one sentence hijacked this thread. But,just in case you're onto something,I'll try to do better.... OK?
Doug
(now, if you'll delete your posts quoting me,I'll delete mine and then this thread may continue on it's pristine way.... OK?)

Actually Doug, you're both right. You might only post in a certain percentage of threads but in those threads that you do post in, you don't contribute to the topic...at all. It's to the point that when I see there's a new post and it's by you, I don't click on it. I got so frustrated the other week...clicking on posts only to see you posting something that you think is funny and that isn't on topic.

When people tell me that they've put me on ignore, it really has no bearing on me whatsoever. The only thing I want to know is, what it was that made them want to do that. I take an honest look at what that is and I also consider the source of the person putting me on ignore. I'm telling you this stuff because I'm also telling you that I'm almost to the point of putting you on ignore and I want you to know why. I'm not saying this with any malice or trying to be mean. I just want you to know what it is that you're doing to make me and others get to this point.

 

[macguy]

IF: the current state of cuesports was in high gear, i would feel sympathy for the other tours.
IF: everyone around the world, mothers,sisters,daughters knew the names of the professional pool players i would feel sympathy for the other tours.
IF: pool in general was bigger than golf i would sympathize with all the directors.
IF: pool was a big happening event, which was sold out years in advance, i would feel somewhat sad, for the ipt cutting into your life's.

the truth of the matter is, pool is as popular as adolf hitler at a bah mitzfa.

calm down smoke a cigar relax, and let the ipt begin, maybe by january of 2007 everyone and their mother will know the names of the professional pool players,~~~~~~~ FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY!!!!!

A Pool tour can't be a charity and exist long. The tours that have been around and tournaments that have a history exist because they do the best they can with what they have, no one wants to be involved with a failure. Your boss has to make money if you want to have a job to go to everyday so you better hope he knows what he is doing and stays profitable. KT has just thrown money up in the air, that doesn't mean there is any way to make a profit, in fact it seems pretty unlikely other then to use it as a small draw to sell his book. You need more then that to base this tour on. When he gets tired of losing money then what, like I said your tour can't just be a charity. He said from the very beginning this was just going to be his introduction into sports sponsoring. He will at some point and I think it will be sooner then later, find a better place to put his money, one that can actually provide a return. No matter how you look at it there is no money in pool I am sorry to say and at some point he will see that dumping millions into it is insane.

 

[cuedoctor]

A Pool tour can't be a charity and exist long. The tours that have been around and tournaments that have a history exist because they do the best they can with what they have, no one wants to be involved with a failure. Your boss has to make money if you want to have a job to go to everyday so you better hope he knows what he is doing and stays profitable. KT has just thrown money up in the air, that doesn't mean there is any way to make a profit, in fact it seems pretty unlikely other then to use it as a small draw to sell his book. You need more then that to base this tour on. When he gets tired of losing money then what, like I said your tour can't just be a charity. He said from the very beginning this was just going to be his introduction into sports sponsoring. He will at some point and I think it will be sooner then later, find a better place to put his money, one that can actually provide a return. No matter how you look at it there is no money in pool I am sorry to say and at some point he will see that dumping millions into it is insane.

Read all about the king of pool now at this website,and we thought barry was bad
http://www.programcritique.com/subc...in trudeau&OVKEY=kevin trudeau&OVMTC=standard

And this one from 20/20
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=1527774

 

[JAM]

...JAM, I have no reason to argue with you about this. You and I have spoken about issues in the sport in the past, and we agree on more than we disagree with. You have taken my opposition to the IPT personal, something I tried to avoid when I called your home a few months ago....

No, Blackjack, I have not taken your opposition to the IPT as personal, just as I didn't take the bad rep points you left me when you wrote in the designated block that it wasn't personal.

I have, though, put forth my opinion, the same as you.

...For some reason I talked to Keith for about an hour waiting for a chance to discuss this with you, it never happened, I'm not sure why. You've never addressed that....

You have mentioned your conversation with Keith several times on this forum. I was out walking my dog when you called, Blackjack. There was no date certain established WHEN you were going to call my home. Though I am glued to the computer more than I'd like to be, I do force myself to leave the cockpit from time to time.

...I wish you and Keith nothing but the best of luck with the IPT. I hope Keith gets to score a big pay day - its long overdue for both of you. I told Keith that when I spoke to him. If this thing goes into the crapper at some point, I will still be around doing what I have been trying to do for the past 20 years, which is to leave pool in better shape than I found it. I will also be here if you need me to assist you in any way, despite the back and forth garbage that has been in these threads....

Thank you for the good wishes.

What's a little unsettling is to read posts bashing posters on this forum, IPT members and IPT supporters, stemming from posters' disdain for the IPT and/or Kevin Trudeau.

Sometimes posters will attack an IPT supporter in a thread in which the topic has NOTHING to do with the IPT, but the poster has targeted the IPT supporter, and the topic of the IPT is brought into the thread for the sole reason that the attacker does not like the IPT. I understand, Blackjack, that you believe the IPT is not good for the sport, but there are some who do not share this view, as evidenced by the multitude of threads on this forum.

I welcome the IPT because me and mine have been treated equitably and at least given a chance to play. A few short years ago, Keith was hitting 'em pretty strong, about 80 percent of his best game he said, and we were quite the frequent travelers on the American tournament trail; that is, until we got met with a big batch of pool politics, complete with stop signs and hurdles to jump. Though I was miffed by it, Keith's take on it was history repeats itself. He relayed the long list of inequities with organizations that have come and gone here in the States. Pool as a sport, here in this country, has always had one tire in the sand. In essence, all Keith wants to really do is play pool, just like any other red-blooded American player, if only given the opportunity.

Yes, Blackjack, you and I have spoken before relating to the sport, focusing on the UPA. I am of a different opinion, though, because of the discrimination that me and mine experienced in the past. The UPA had placed stop signs on my tournament trail. The ranking system, as it pertains to entry into high-profile events, had not been not adhered to, as seen with the WPC selections, and then there were those rule changes at each event, this one can play, this one can't play, et cetera. The UPA contract was a self-serving legal instrument which only benefitted the UPA. Corey Deuel's sponsors didn't like that contract, and for good reason. The UPA members were introduced to boycotting non-UPA-sanctioned events; ironically, the most recent of which was the U.S. Open, the very event everyone is up in arms about now. [Poor U.S. Open ]

Because of THAT state of affairs in American pool, the WPC deemed a change needed to be instituted in their eligibility requirements which may have related to the inequities as it pertains to United States' players, i.e., Earl Strickland and Jose Parica. Hall of Famer Earl Strickland's style of play seems to be enjoyed on the international pool trail.

Speaking of which, what have the BCA's Hall of Famers received from the BCA when being inducted in the BCA Hall of Fame? At the IPT King of the Hill Shootout in Orlando, Florida, they each pocketed $30,000, just for showing up, win or lose. Man, that's pretty darn nice, IMHO, the IPT recognizing these great ones. Too bad Earl missed it by a year.

The IPT has provided an opportunity to players of all nationalities, race, creed, and color, young and old, male or female. The IPT is real pool, REAL RULES, which are adhered to, and real money. To date, I haven't seen any discriminatory practices, and the IPT as an organization is going to benefit pool player members, some of the very ones the UPA turned its back on. The only thing the players have to do in return is play well and earn a decent wage.

JAM

 

[jjinfla]

Damn good post Jam.

I wanted to add to your rep but Wilson won't let me. LOL.

And Blackjack you most likely have more in common with KT then you want to admit.

Tell me if I am wrong. You were a road player for a bunch of years and did whatever it took to get the other guy's money. Just like KT when he was 20 or so. Only he got caught, went to jail, and paid for his crimes.

Then you got sick, had an epiphany and now you want to give back to the pool community. Who knows, maybe KT faced a traumatic experience and now he wants to give back and share his wealth with the pool community.

Think about it.

Jake

 

[jsp]

A Pool tour can't be a charity and exist long. The tours that have been around and tournaments that have a history exist because they do the best they can with what they have, no one wants to be involved with a failure. Your boss has to make money if you want to have a job to go to everyday so you better hope he knows what he is doing and stays profitable.

Well, I completely agree with what you're saying here.

KT has just thrown money up in the air, that doesn't mean there is any way to make a profit, in fact it seems pretty unlikely other then to use it as a small draw to sell his book.

I hardly think KT is "throwing money up in the air". Like you said, the tour survives only if the boss makes a buck. You would probably be the first person to say that KT is in this IPT venture to make money first, to promote the sport a very distant second. If that's the case, why would he venture into something where he doesn't think he would benefit financially in the long haul? He's a billionaire...he knows how to make a buck, and I believe that's only a good thing as far as the IPT goes.

I admit, I'm no promoter. But it's only common sense to me that the reason why pool hasn't hit it big the past coule of decades is because lack of public exposure. Lack of public exposure means lack of a public audience, and thus lack of big corporate sponsorship, and thus lack of money. The 2 showings of pool per month on espn2 has proven that it isn't not enough. KT has found a way to put KOTH on a weekly timeslot on a pretty good channel (supposedly). No one else has done that before, which is why the professional pool players have been earning beans lately. The key to pool's success and prosperity is publicity, and KT seems to have done it. How is this a bad thing for pool?

 

[Colin Colenso]

With these major clash developments, I have to wonder what will be the response of the WPA.

Could extended player bans be under consideration?

Might the Hall of Famer's be ostrasized?

This would seem to threaten the survival at their attempt to establish a World Tour in 2006.

Any severe action that would punish the players may do little to help their cause.

What can they do but scuttle to find new dates?

The s*** certainly seems to have hit the fan. What will happen next?

btw: I'm not attempting to mock or make humor of this situation. Just state the dynamics as I see them.

 

[PoolSleuth]

The civil unrest in the States is manifesting itself into a world war. Is it a power struggle, or is it more about money?

In the long run, who stands to lose the most?

JAM

Like Medicine, Pharmacy Industry, Dentistry, New Car Sales, and almost everything else. It is all about MONEY.

Well said JAM...