IPT Qualifiers

[Gabber]

Jay, I understand your concerns. What this is looking like to me is the IPT as Kevin laid it out back in August of last year. There have been some tweaks and modifications but it pretty much follows the formula that Kevin has already stated he wants to follow. The qualifiers have proven that there are plenty of players who want to participate.

Last place in the IPT Open in July gets $2000. When have you ever been involved in a tournament that paid last place? First place is $350,000. Now I know you like to gamble. I can confidently say that you have at times risked FAR more for a chance at FAR less. Let's just say you spent $10,000 to get a bonafide champion into the IPT's two open events and he finished middle of the pack. You would then share in somewhere in the neighborhood of $25,000.

All in all you would be shooting your 10 dimes at a share of 5 million in prize money. Never before have you or anyone else in the modern history of this game been able to do this.

So it follows that things are going to be run differently. Why would the IPT want to award prize money to the participants of the qualifiers? The qualifier is only a stepping stone to the real prize. The chance to become fairly wealthy playing pool.

You are right. Right now it's the qualification tour. I disagree though about no scheckels being paid out. The bonus money for running six packs, the free entries into future qualifiers, the bonus money paid out to IPT players are all monies that have been spread to IPT players and hopefuls.

Anyway, I ramble. I can understand your concern as you are one of the promoters that has literally seen it all with schemes to "make pool huge". I can see how having Kevin Trudea at the helm is especially alarming. But that is one of life's ironies. The huster community has to put it's faith in a person who is constantly called one of America's biggest conmen.

John

How much would the first prize be at the US Open 9-ball if only the first 2 players got a payout?
How much would it be if they all put 2 grand of their own money into the prize pot? Think about it.

What we have just had is 6 Qs where 240+ players have put up 2 grand of their own money. [Its not IPT money.]
Now, if this was a normal tourney there would be 12 players left over and more than $500,000 in the prize pot to share between them! Not bad.
At this point, they dont really need the IPT because between themselves, [ its still their money] they could have the biggest pool payout ever!
If I was one of those players or a backer I would be loath to give that cash to the IPT for a guaranteed return of 12 grand.

Gabber

Now we know why 'next year' there is a 'guaranteed' payout of $100,000!

 

[Gabber]

About the money in-out, I have absolute conviction that it will happen as stated. The only contingency I can see happening that would prevent the events to go as planned is if something were to happen to KT. I hope he has provided for that eventuality.

Do you know something we dont? Why would you say such a thing?
Gabber

 

[Gabber]

Here you also know what you're shooting at - it's all printed nearly a year in advance

It was printed before and they changed it! You sound like its written in stone!

Pool is a game of skill- its not a gamble. I reckon I would have more chance at beating the world champ on the slots than on a pool table. Wanna bet? LOL

Gabber.

 

[JAM]

Pool Player ROLL CALL

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many pool players there are in the world who are confident enough to take a shot at the IPT.

Since I am not familiar with the international scene, I can only speak for the United States with any certainty. I'd venture to guess that there's about 300 or so American pool players currently who would consider getting themselves on the IPT.

Now, as far as the other countries, The Republic of the Philippines seems to be well represented, and there's a strong group of them already on the current 150 player list.

If I were to add up the total worldwide -- England, Germany, China, Taiwan, Sweden, Hungary, Korea, Russia, Japan, Puerto Rico, Spain, Mexico, Finland, Canada, just to throw out the ones I can think of at the time of this writing -- would that constitute another 500 or 1,000 capable pool players, ones who would desire to step up to the IPT plate? I am curious, though, as to how many pro-aspiring and pro-caliber players there are in the world.

Is 50 qualifiers too many for each event, or will the IPT begin to grow, attracting newcomers to the sport?

JAM

 

[thebestpoolroom]

I don't think 50 qualifiers is too many! This is a great opportunity for all pool players who think they are good enough to prove that they belong in the IPT. The IPT, so far, has proven that they are a great organization and is great for the sport. They will not have a logistical problem running all 50 tournaments. They have the money and the man power to make it happen.

By having all these qualifiers, the IPT is out to quite all the critics who think that certain pool players ought to belong in the IPT. After 50 qualifiers, if you don't win a semi-tour card, most likely, you don't belong in the field of top playing pool professionals.

Also, the fans, room owners, and the people in the business will benefit greatly through these qualifiers. I personally enjoy watching some of these world champions trying to win a spot in the IPT.

Furthermore, there are costs associated with running the qualifiers. I don't think the IPT is out "make money" off the qualifiers. Remember, they paid out a lot of bonus money during the Marietta qualifier. Also, they have have a staff of 6-8 people traveling to these qualifiers to ensure that things are running smoothly. All of this, costs a lot of money.

John

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I think what Jay means is going thru all of this really worth it? If you look at the fields of the qualifier events, they are tougher than any tournament out there. There is no seeding, and you are most likely going to draw a world-beater the first round, and probably for the rest of the tournament if you stay in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jay is questioning whether it is really worth it to spend thousands trying to qualify, when the chances of succeeding, even with a WORLD CLASS PLAYER, is very slim. A field of about a hundred world-beaters, you pay $1,000-$2,000 to enter, and only the top 2finishers make it. That is one helluva gamble. I personally think Mr. Helfert has every right to wonder about this.

In my humble opinion, I would like to see maybe 5 more qualifying events, and make the entry fee like $500 (like the us open), and have the top 10 finishers in those 5 events qualify.

When I went to the IPT qualifier at Hard Times, I honestly felt SORRY for almost ALL of the players that didn't qualify. I was watching Cliff Joyner play some incredible pool, and he still didn't make it. Goh Takami played almost perfect the whole event and he didn't make it. And if they ever do qualify, it might cost them in total of over $10k. What if they spend that much but they don't qualify? There you have some broke pool players who are gonna live on the streets. There is no money in pool already, I don't think it's right to take a bunch of broke people and make them gamble their life savings for a LOW PERCENTAGE chance to make money. Sorry for the rant, but I got a little emotional, without the cigarettes and all.

 

[Jimmy M.]

There is no money in pool already, I don't think it's right to take a bunch of broke people and make them gamble their life savings for a LOW PERCENTAGE chance to make money.

True dat! I'm not sure what that means, but I think it means I agree with what you said.

 

[TheOne]

I think what Jay means is going thru all of this really worth it? If you look at the fields of the qualifier events, they are tougher than any tournament out there. There is no seeding, and you are most likely going to draw a world-beater the first round, and probably for the rest of the tournament if you stay in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jay is questioning whether it is really worth it to spend thousands trying to qualify, when the chances of succeeding, even with a WORLD CLASS PLAYER, is very slim. A field of about a hundred world-beaters, you pay $1,000-$2,000 to enter, and only the top 2finishers make it. That is one helluva gamble. I personally think Mr. Helfert has every right to wonder about this.

In my humble opinion, I would like to see maybe 5 more qualifying events, and make the entry fee like $500 (like the us open), and have the top 10 finishers in those 5 events qualify.

When I went to the IPT qualifier at Hard Times, I honestly felt SORRY for almost ALL of the players that didn't qualify. I was watching Cliff Joyner play some incredible pool, and he still didn't make it. Goh Takami played almost perfect the whole event and he didn't make it. And if they ever do qualify, it might cost them in total of over $10k. What if they spend that much but they don't qualify? There you have some broke pool players who are gonna live on the streets. There is no money in pool already, I don't think it's right to take a bunch of broke people and make them gamble their life savings for a LOW PERCENTAGE chance to make money. Sorry for the rant, but I got a little emotional, without the cigarettes and all.

A bloody excellent post, I couldn't agree more. Like I've said before there are several categories of people on this forum, the fans of the IPT like Jake etc who don't intend to play don't give a sh*t about this, and most of the IPT selected players don't either. The fans don't care because it doesn't effect them and they will eventually see the best players in a few years time. The IPTers don't care because they are geting a cut of all the entries and the less world beaters in the tour improves their chances of staying on it for next year.

BUT I really hope this is changed for the players/backers and impartial fans who really want the best players in the world on the IPT.

It's always the broke players that are forced to support a tour.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

Don't get me wrong, I support the IPT but I really think the qualifying system is just terrible.

Here is another thought, what was the high run at the qualifiers? I believe it was 8 racks? I know there was alot of 5 and 6 packs ran. How do you think the player who travelled halfway across the world felt after paying $2000 to play a rack or two, and then sit in his chair the remainder of the match because he broke dry? Pool is one of the very few competitive games where you can lose and never get to participate, with the exception of the opening lag.

 

[jay helfert]

I think what Jay means is going thru all of this really worth it? If you look at the fields of the qualifier events, they are tougher than any tournament out there. There is no seeding, and you are most likely going to draw a world-beater the first round, and probably for the rest of the tournament if you stay in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jay is questioning whether it is really worth it to spend thousands trying to qualify, when the chances of succeeding, even with a WORLD CLASS PLAYER, is very slim. A field of about a hundred world-beaters, you pay $1,000-$2,000 to enter, and only the top 2finishers make it. That is one helluva gamble. I personally think Mr. Helfert has every right to wonder about this.

In my humble opinion, I would like to see maybe 5 more qualifying events, and make the entry fee like $500 (like the us open), and have the top 10 finishers in those 5 events qualify.

When I went to the IPT qualifier at Hard Times, I honestly felt SORRY for almost ALL of the players that didn't qualify. I was watching Cliff Joyner play some incredible pool, and he still didn't make it. Goh Takami played almost perfect the whole event and he didn't make it. And if they ever do qualify, it might cost them in total of over $10k. What if they spend that much but they don't qualify? There you have some broke pool players who are gonna live on the streets. There is no money in pool already, I don't think it's right to take a bunch of broke people and make them gamble their life savings for a LOW PERCENTAGE chance to make money. Sorry for the rant, but I got a little emotional, without the cigarettes and all.

Thanks for posting. You got my drift. It's GREAT for the 150 chosen players to be ON the IPT. If you are on the outside looking in, it is not so rosy a picture. MANY good players will not get on the IPT the way it is presently configured. Maybe ever!
There doesn't appear to be any process in place (like in pro golf) where a player can have a reasonably good chance to play his way on. Even pro golfers would quit trying if they had to play against 100 top golfers every week at great expense to try to qualify for the tour. And only the top two got in. In Q school, thirty golfers got on the PGA this past year. And the next 60 made the Nationwide tour.
And now there will be another looonnnnggg series of expensive qualifiers to choose 50 more players (two at a time) for exactly one big tournament. Maybe my math is bad, but the numbers don't add up for me. Once again, great for those presently on the IPT. HORRIBLE for those that are not!

 

[Snapshot9]

Concerns

Don't get me wrong, I support the IPT but I really think the qualifying system is just terrible.

Here is another thought, what was the high run at the qualifiers? I believe it was 8 racks? I know there was alot of 5 and 6 packs ran. How do you think the player who travelled halfway across the world felt after paying $2000 to play a rack or two, and then sit in his chair the remainder of the match because he broke dry? Pool is one of the very few competitive games where you can lose and never get to participate, with the exception of the opening lag.

You have some valid concerns, but lets not forget that many of these
qualifier entrants are often playing for $2,000 a set or more during there
'off tournament' times. I find it a little strange, after being reported on here, that Cliff Joyner won 40 bags of sand playing 1 hole in DCC, had someone make a plea for sponsors for entry into the IPT qualifiers.

 

[ScottW]

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/q_and_a/default.asp#j

QUESTION:
How can I guarantee playing in the qualifying tournaments for the North American Open and the World Open?

Answer:
Applications will be forthcoming within the next few months. The IPT North American 8-Ball Open Championship and the IPT World 8-Ball Open Championship will be open to any player in the world, man or woman, of any age. We are in the process of organizing qualifying tournaments in selected billiard rooms around the world. Since there are fifty openings for both of these tournaments we will have fifty qualifying tournaments for each event. More details will be forthcoming in the next few months.

Fifty qualifiers for fifty spots? Considering the next open is in July and it's mid-March now - that's a lot of qualifiers to cram into four months. Have any of these even been scheduled/announced? Are they going to require upwards of fifty venues to recover X number of their tables (at their own cost, if previous posts on this subject are accurate) with their cloth to run a qualifier for one of fifty spots? What's the entry fee going to be?

Lots of unanswered questions...

 

[onepocketchump]

How much would the first prize be at the US Open 9-ball if only the first 2 players got a payout?
How much would it be if they all put 2 grand of their own money into the prize pot? Think about it.

What we have just had is 6 Qs where 240+ players have put up 2 grand of their own money. [Its not IPT money.]
Now, if this was a normal tourney there would be 12 players left over and more than $500,000 in the prize pot to share between them! Not bad.
At this point, they dont really need the IPT because between themselves, [ its still their money] they could have the biggest pool payout ever!
If I was one of those players or a backer I would be loath to give that cash to the IPT for a guaranteed return of 12 grand.

Gabber

Now we know why 'next year' there is a 'guaranteed' payout of $100,000!

It's not a normal tournament. If it were then you wouldn't even have ten players putting up $2000 each even if the winner got $20,000. You would have some backers doing it.

You are being shortsighted. The prize is the tour card. Each player who earned their tour card through a qualifier is most likely strong enough to retain their card through 2007 when it will be worth a minimum of $100,000. What will it be worth in 2008? When the average IPT pro is earning $300,000 a year and it gets ten times as tough to get a tour card as it is now, then you will look back on this time and say that the people who took the chance and made it were lucky and fortunate to have gotten in so cheaply and easily. Wait until the qualifiers are 120 players deep and all of them strong players.

I just talked to Allen Hopkins and he is pro-IPT. In his eyes it will only promote pool and make it boom again, which is a benefit to everyone.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

I think what Jay means is going thru all of this really worth it? If you look at the fields of the qualifier events, they are tougher than any tournament out there. There is no seeding, and you are most likely going to draw a world-beater the first round, and probably for the rest of the tournament if you stay in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jay is questioning whether it is really worth it to spend thousands trying to qualify, when the chances of succeeding, even with a WORLD CLASS PLAYER, is very slim. A field of about a hundred world-beaters, you pay $1,000-$2,000 to enter, and only the top 2finishers make it. That is one helluva gamble. I personally think Mr. Helfert has every right to wonder about this.

In my humble opinion, I would like to see maybe 5 more qualifying events, and make the entry fee like $500 (like the us open), and have the top 10 finishers in those 5 events qualify.

When I went to the IPT qualifier at Hard Times, I honestly felt SORRY for almost ALL of the players that didn't qualify. I was watching Cliff Joyner play some incredible pool, and he still didn't make it. Goh Takami played almost perfect the whole event and he didn't make it. And if they ever do qualify, it might cost them in total of over $10k. What if they spend that much but they don't qualify? There you have some broke pool players who are gonna live on the streets. There is no money in pool already, I don't think it's right to take a bunch of broke people and make them gamble their life savings for a LOW PERCENTAGE chance to make money. Sorry for the rant, but I got a little emotional, without the cigarettes and all.

I don't know. These are the same people that wonder how tough a game can be or how fair a system is in place that allows for a 16 year old to win the world championships. Is is worth it? I guess the players who tried all five qualifiers think so. It's not only the money involved, it's the prestige. To win an IPT event is so much more valid than winning the US Open or even the world championships in my opinion. For the first time since the 20's pool players might have the chance to become bonafide superstars outside of the diehard fans. Maybe the best pool player in the world can finally earn a living and enjoy the benefits commensurate with the skill level he has attained compared to other athletes.

Why should Tiger Woods earn more than Efren Reyes? Why should Andy Roddick? Why should Barry Bonds? They are all playing games with balls and sticks. The answer is PROMOTION and APPRECIATION. Until someone can promote the game and it's players effectively there will be no appreciation and no broad fan base.

This is the prize that the players and some backers are seeing. The dedicated players will always come up with the cash they need to follow their dreams. If one backer doesn't see the value then they will just search for another one.

John

 

[JAM]

...Why should Tiger Woods earn more than Efren Reyes? Why should Andy Roddick? Why should Barry Bonds? They are all playing games with balls and sticks. The answer is PROMOTION and APPRECIATION. Until someone can promote the game and its players effectively, there will be no appreciation and no broad fan base.

Well said, Onepocketchump! That's probably the BEST statement I've read pertaining to the broad-based impact of the IPT.

I sure as heck hope the appreciation will come sooner rather than later after the promotion has had a chance to unfold. Hopefully, a new pool public will help to kickstart the beginning of a new era, and that for the first time in the sport's history, the very players who haved danced like plebians on a field of green, will get their just rewards. Long time overdue, I say.

JAM

 

[ScottW]

Why should Tiger Woods earn more than Efren Reyes? Why should Andy Roddick? Why should Barry Bonds? They are all playing games with balls and sticks. The answer is PROMOTION and APPRECIATION. Until someone can promote the game and it's players effectively there will be no appreciation and no broad fan base.

The answer is "sponsorship", as in "lots of sponsorship money coming in". Also, I figure, golf is perceived somewhat as an "athletic" sport - and we all know how Americans love their athletic sports (football, baseball, etc).

Pool will never be as big a spectator sport as golf, etc. partly due to, to put it simply, "arses on pews" - specifically, the number of arses on pews. Stadiums hold tens of thousands of people. Golf tournaments, thousands of folks line up along the fairways/greens, shuffle around. Pool? How many people can you put in chairs/bleachers around a table, where folks have a decent view? A couple of hundred or so? Check this link to a photo of the KOTH event, I'm assuming this was the table for the final rounds:

http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/ipt_online_event/photo_day5/large_view/image_22.jpg

How many seats were there? Pool just won't ever be a comparible spectator sport when there isn't room for the spectators.

Plus, Tiger's just got that charisma thing going for him. That's a tough thing to top.

 

[JAM]

...How many seats were there? Pool just won't ever be a comparible spectator sport when there isn't room for the spectators.

Plus, Tiger's just got that charisma thing going for him. That's a tough thing to top.

I agree, and the reason why Tiger's just got that charisma thing going for him is because of what Onepocketchump said: PRODUCTION.

From what I heard out of Kevin Trudeau's mouth and what I listened to on the audio "Kevin Trudeau Speaks," it is his belief that the success of the IPT tour will not gain in popularity by spectators filling up seats. It's going to be the TV public the IPT is targeting for success. JMHO, FWIW.

JAM

 

[ScottW]

Well, my main point is, watching an event on TV is one thing - and being able to go ATTEND an event, and to be able to see the folks involved with your own two eyes, and get that whole hive-mind-common-experience thing going with the folks around you - that's big. Consider how many people are going to Valley Forge who aren't even participating in any of the scheduled events.

Getting pool on TV more will help, but it won't be enough to bring it up to the level of golf, football, etc., methinks.

Plus, I don't think you can truly produce charisma. You might be able to enhance it through good production, but the base has to be there.

 

[JAM]

Well, my main point is, watching an event on TV is one thing - and being able to go ATTEND an event, and to be able to see the folks involved with your own two eyes, and get that whole hive-mind-common-experience thing going with the folks around you - that's big. Consider how many people are going to Valley Forge who aren't even participating in any of the scheduled events.

I understand what you mean. The TV brings in monies via production. Tiger gets paid the big bucks thanks to sponsor money. The sponsors invest in the TV production to get recognition. More eyeballs see an event on TV than up front and close, and when the products are being sold, much of its popularity is due to eyeballs seeing it on TV. It's a greater mass of money-spending folks.

...Plus, I don't think you can truly produce charisma. You might be able to enhance it through good production, but the base has to be there.

The only reason Tiger's charisma is allowed to shine through is because of TV production. There's quite a few pool players who may be just as charismatic as Tiger Woods, but nobody knows about them, except the very small culture of pool that exists now.

JAM

 

[Snapshot9]

Are you saying ...

Plus, I don't think you can truly produce charisma. You might be able to enhance it through good production, but the base has to be there.

Poolplayers don't have CHARISMA (and I can spell it too). Why I will give you the 7 on that, and beat you like a red-headed stepchild .... ROFL

Why, some poolplayers 'Woof' so much, they have to wear dog collars...