IPT Travel and lodging expenses

Tarantula said:
...I've never seen anyone else captivate and steal the audience's attention moreso than Keith. They actually stopped a match at the main table at the US Open (can't even remember who were the players there at the time, even though I was watching the match to begin with) and switched the boom to Keith playing Alex!....

I remember it well! :o The two players were Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante on the TV table. BCn moved the camera off of their table to Keith and Alex, the final game of their set.

Marcus Chamat and Mika Immonen were sitting on the other side of the tournament room, high in the alps. Marcus was laughing so hard, he fell out of his chair. (LOL)

I was sitting ringside sweating the outcome, right next to Buddy Hall who was giggling the whole time. That was a memorable night. :)

JAM
 
JAM said:
And if he does have a drink in his hand, how does this affect you?

Why don't you post on the Golf Channel forum and tell John Daly not to have a beer in his hand on TV.

As long as Keith keeps giving it his all on a field of green, he's a happy camper. FWIW, Keith has more heart than most players you will ever have an opportunity to meet, much less know.

JAM


Do not MESS with JAM, as her words cut better than my Pocket Knife.... :)
 
macguy said:
Enabling is the only word that comes to mind.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/aa052197.htm

Happy St. Patrick's Day, Macguy. "Troll" is the word that comes to my mind when I see your name.

Str8Poolman said:
Interesting how someone becomes a troll simply because they don't share your opinion on a subject. You're either with us or ag'n us!

Let me provide a little insight, Str8Poolman. :)

In Internet terminology, a "troll" is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as in online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants.

BTW, Str8poolman, did you know that trolling culture is best observed in trolls, who do not know each other, working together?

Or, conversely, Str8poolman, a common tactic that many trolls resort to is the strategy of using multiple usernames or pseudonyms that are ready to use just in case a debate or argument emerges. By using multiple usernames and a variety of artificial personalities, the troll would have the ability to protect his image in a community. A troll would then also be able to increase his or her influence in an entire online community by simply using those other self-serving nicks to increase the attention towards his or her most favored account; in this instance, Macguy's continuous bashing of Keith McCready as an IPT member, Keith McCready as a pool player, and then, when all else fails, Keith McCready the person.

Just like a snake in the grass, trolling is a game about identity deception. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns, and then, for no reason, attacks one member of the forum, much like Macguy has done on this thread.

And here's a little nugget I didn't know about: On January 5, 2006, President George W. Bush signed into law the Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act[4], which, among other things, places a prohibition on using the Internet to transmit, solicit, or create anonymous messages containing obscenity intended to "annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass" another person.[5] Criminal penalties include large fines and up to two years in prison. Concern has been raised as to the constitutional legality of the law, as critics allege that it infringes upon the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which guarantees every U.S. citizen the right to free speech. This does not necessarily affect all trolls; however, it makes illegal the common trolling tactic of posting links....

Of course, Str8Poolman, there's the garden variety of trolls, but here are a few examples for your perusal. :)

One-shot trolls
One-shot troll messages are intended to be disruptive, and tend to be very obvious to ensure that they will receive annoyed replies. Usually, they appear in a thread for the first time during the midst of a flame.

Disruptive trolls
Off topic messages: Those that are irrelevant to the focus of the forum. This can also be done in the middle of an existing thread to attempt to hijack the thread, or otherwise change the topic at hand. [Much like what Macguy has done to this thread about traveling/lodging for an upcoming IPT tournament in Vegas, which, in reality, is the original topic of this thread.]

Inflammatory messages, including racist, sexist, classist or otherwise needlessly hateful comments, as well as links targeting a pool player on a pool-related Internet forum, disgused as the troll providing an "opinion."

Attention-seeking trolls
This class of trolls seeks to incite as many responses as possible and to absorb a disproportionate share of the collective attention span.

Another trait of a troll is feigning innocence, after a flamewar ensues, i.e., Macguy's belief that he's only providing an honest debate about pool players, targeting Keith McCready at every turn.

A variant of the second variety (inflammatory messages) involves posting content obviously at odds with the (stated or unstated) focus of the group or forum; for example, posting cat-meat recipes on a pet lovers forum, posting negative comments about the IPT on the IPT forum and/or targeting a pool player's girlfriend by discrediting her boyfriend as a pool player on a pool-related forum such as AzBilliards.

Here's something to ponder, Str8Poolman: The "sock-puppet" troll enters a forum using several different identities. As provocative postings from one identity draw increasingly critical comment from other forum members, the troll enters the discussion under a second identity in support of the first.

For many people, the characterizing feature of trolling is the perception of intent to disrupt a community in some way. Inflammatory, sarcastic, disruptive or humorous content is posted, meant to draw other users into engaging the troll in a fruitless confrontation. The greater the reaction from the community the more likely the user is to troll again, as the person develops beliefs that certain actions achieve his/her goal to cause chaos, again, kind of like Macguy continuing to target Keith McCready on this thread.

IMHO, Macguy falls into this category: Anonymous attention-seeking: The troll seeks to dominate the thread by inciting anger, and effectively hijacking the topic at hand.

A troll is looking for a response, ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, and inflammatory tidbits, such as the link that Macguy provided above, hoping that someone, ANYONE, will take the bait. A troll can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum.

In sum, Str8Poolman, some users of Internet forums are considered to be "troll-hunters" or "troll-baiters". They willingly enter into conflicts when trolls emerge. Often, troll-hunters are as disruptive as trolls. In some instances, the troll and the troll-baiter work as a tag team, each attempting to support the other. Sometimes, though, the troll and the troll-baiter share the same identity. Only the webmaster knows for sure.

Hope this helps, Str8Poolman. :)

JAM
 
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JAM said:
Happy St. Patrick's Day, Macguy. "Troll" is the word that comes to my mind when I see your name. :)



Let me provide a little insight, Str8Poolman. :)

In Internet terminology, a "troll" is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as in online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants.

BTW, Str8poolman, did you know that trolling culture is best observed in trolls, who do not know each other, working together?

Or, conversely, Str8poolman, a common tactic that many trolls resort to is the strategy of using multiple usernames or pseudonyms that are ready to use just in case a debate or argument emerges. By using multiple usernames and a variety of artificial personalities, the troll would have the ability to protect his image in a community. A troll would then also be able to increase his or her influence in an entire online community by simply using those other self-serving nicks to increase the attention towards his or her most favored account; in this instance, Macguy's continuous bashing of Keith McCready as an IPT member, Keith McCready as a pool player, and then, when all else fails, Keith McCready the person.

Just like a snake in the grass, trolling is a game about identity deception. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns, and then, for no reason, attacks one member of the forum, much like Macguy has done on this thread.

And here's a little nugget I didn't know about: On January 5, 2006, President George W. Bush signed into law the Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act[4], which, among other things, places a prohibition on using the Internet to transmit, solicit, or create anonymous messages containing obscenity intended to "annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass" another person.[5] Criminal penalties include large fines and up to two years in prison. Concern has been raised as to the constitutional legality of the law, as critics allege that it infringes upon the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which guarantees every U.S. citizen the right to free speech. This does not necessarily affect all trolls; however, it makes illegal the common trolling tactic of posting links....

Of course, Str8Poolman, there's the garden variety of trolls, but here are a few examples for your perusal. :)

One-shot trolls
One-shot troll messages are intended to be disruptive, and tend to be very obvious to ensure that they will receive annoyed replies. Usually, they appear in a thread for the first time during the midst of a flame.

Disruptive trolls
Off topic messages: Those that are irrelevant to the focus of the forum. This can also be done in the middle of an existing thread to attempt to hijack the thread, or otherwise change the topic at hand. [Much like what Macguy has done to this thread about traveling/lodging for an upcoming IPT tournament in Vegas, which, in reality, is the original topic of this thread.]

Inflammatory messages, including racist, sexist, classist or otherwise needlessly hateful comments disgused as the troll providing an "opinion."

Opinionated statements: Posting messages expressing their own opinions as generally accepted facts.

Attention-seeking trolls
This class of trolls seeks to incite as many responses as possible and to absorb a disproportionate share of the collective attention span.

Another trait of a troll is feigning innocence, after a flamewar ensues, i.e., Macguy's belief that he's only providing an honest debate about pool players, targeting Keith McCready at every turn.

A variant of the second variety (inflammatory messages) involves posting content obviously at odds with the (stated or unstated) focus of the group or forum; for example, posting cat-meat recipes on a pet lovers forum, posting negative comments about the IPT on the IPT forum and/or targeting a pool player's girlfriend by discrediting her boyfriend as a pool player on a pool-related forum such as AzBilliards.

Here's something to ponder, Str8Poolman: The "sock-puppet" troll enters a forum using several different identities. As provocative postings from one identity draw increasingly critical comment from other forum members, the troll enters the discussion under a second identity in support of the first. Alternatively, the troll may under the second identity criticize the first in order to develop credibility or esteem on the forum.

For many people, the characterizing feature of trolling is the perception of intent to disrupt a community in some way. Inflammatory, sarcastic, disruptive or humorous content is posted, meant to draw other users into engaging the troll in a fruitless confrontation. The greater the reaction from the community the more likely the user is to troll again, as the person develops beliefs that certain actions achieve his/her goal to cause chaos, again, kind of like Macguy continuing to target Keith McCready on this thread.

IMHO, Macguy falls into this category: Anonymous attention-seeking: The troll seeks to dominate the thread by inciting anger, and effectively hijacking the topic at hand.

A troll is looking for a response, ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, and inflammatory tidbits, such as the link that Macguy provided above, hoping that someone, ANYONE, will take the bait. A troll can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum.

In sum, Str8Poolman, some users of Internet forums are considered to be "troll-hunters" or "troll-baiters". They willingly enter into conflicts when trolls emerge. Often, troll-hunters are as disruptive as trolls. In some instances, the troll and the troll-baiter work as a tag team, each attempting to support the other. Sometimes, though, the troll and the troll-baiter share the same identity. Only the webmaster knows for sure.

Hope this helps, Str8Poolman. :)

JAM


Nice post. Lucid, fairly well organized, and informative. You must have a lot of time on your hands. Your insight was unnecessary, as I, despite still being a "noob" in the realm of internet forums, am very aware of what a troll is and how they operate. Nonetheless, the effort to educate me is appreciated.

I know that the modus operandi of a troll is to bait someone into an argument. I also know that the best way to handle a troll is simply to ignore him (her). If, as you say, Macguy is a troll, he certainly did an excellent job of baiting you.

So perhaps you should have taken your own advice and not given him the response he was looking for.

As far as whether a post is rude or offensive, that is completely subjective. Just as someone's opinion of the future success or failure of the IPT or Keith McCready's success or failure in it is subjective.
 
Str8PoolMan said:
Nice post. I know that the modus operandi of a troll is to bait someone into an argument. I also know that the best way to handle a troll is simply to ignore him (her). If, as you say, Macguy is a troll, he certainly did an excellent job of baiting you.

So perhaps you should have taken your own advice and not given him the response he was looking for.

.

I agree. Put him on ignore and go on with your life. Your response just feeds his ego.

Enjoy your association with the IPT and put a smile on your face every time you go to the bank to make those deposits.

Jake
 
Str8PoolMan said:
Nice post. Lucid, fairly well organized, and informative. You must have a lot of time on your hands. Your insight was unnecessary, as I, despite still being a "noob" in the realm of internet forums, am very aware of what a troll is and how they operate. Nonetheless, the effort to educate me is appreciated.

You're welcome, Str8PoolMan.:) However, my insight was posted not for the sole benefit of educating you. Otherwise, I would have sent you a PM. :p

Str8PoolMan said:
I know that the modus operandi of a troll is to bait someone into an argument. I also know that the best way to handle a troll is simply to ignore him (her). If, as you say, Macguy is a troll, he certainly did an excellent job of baiting you.

Unlike you, Str8PoolMan, and Macguy, I post under my own name and will continue to respond to trolls when they attack Keith McCready, who is, BTW, one of the AzBilliard's voluntary members featured in the Ask the Pro Forum.

It is a shame that this type of behavior is acceptable on a forum in which pro players are supposed to be encouraged to share their views and post about pool-related topics, but "setting the bait" as you call it, Str8PoolMan, seems to be the modus operandi of Macguy. Maybe if he continues, it will get the attention of the webmaster when this thread gets a little uglier because, truth be told, I can't think of any pro player would feel comfortable contributing to a forum in which he is being attacked on a daily basis.

It is unfortunate that Macguy feels the necessity to "bait," as you call it, Str8PoolMan, on this thread. I would think that behavior pattern right there would give most posters on this forum a cause for concern as opposed to your congratulatory remarks to Macguy, as a troll, doing an excellent job.

Str8PoolMan said:
So perhaps you should have taken your own advice and not given him the response he was looking for.

That's my prerogative, Str8PoolMan, just like it is your prerogative to give me advice as it pertains to me and mine.

Str8PoolMan said:
As far as whether a post is rude or offensive, that is completely subjective. Just as someone's opinion of the future success or failure of the IPT or Keith McCready's success or failure in it is subjective.

Someone's opinion may be subjective, but when a poster continues to post inflammatory comments in the form of "opinions," it then becomes offensive.

JAM
 
JAM said:
Unlike you, Str8PoolMan, and Macguy, I post under my own name and will continue to respond to trolls when they attack Keith McCready, who is, BTW, one of the AzBilliard's voluntary members featured in the Ask the Pro Forum.
JAM

So JAM is your real name? Do you have a twin sister named JELLY?

I get really tired of the sanctimony displayed by people who think their opinions matter more because they "courageously post under their real name". That is simply a personal choice.

I don't remain anonymous because I am afraid of stating my viewpoints publicly or out of fear of any reprisals. God does not give us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

And how do you know that Macguy isn't his real name anyway?
 
Str8PoolMan said:
So JAM is your real name? Do you have a twin sister named JELLY?

That's the ticket, Str8PoolMan. No, JAM is not my real name, and I do not have a sister named JELLY. In fact, the initials of my name spell out JAM (all capital letters). Hope this helps to clarify my identity. Of course, the avatar to the left may provide a small clue.

Str8PoolMan said:
I get really tired of the sanctimony displayed by people who think their opinions matter more because they "courageously post under their real name". That is simply a personal choice.

And I get really tired of posters who profess their blessed opinions under the guise of a troll with the intention of flaming.

Str8PoolMan said:
I don't remain anonymous because I am afraid of stating my viewpoints publicly or out of fear of any reprisals. God does not give us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

A nice display of mumbo jumbo words, Str8PoolMan, but it doesn't address the issue of anonymous trolls posting what they deem as "opinions" when, in fact, each post is merely a smear campaign directed at one entity, whether it be the IPT, Kevin Trudeau, or Keith McCready.

Str8PoolMan said:
And how do you know that Macguy isn't his real name anyway?

I'm willing to betcha that it's not. :D

JAM
 
The only reason I am enjoying this thread is I get to see Jennies' pretty, smiling face again and again. Happy Saint Patricks day JAM. Here you have that .01% that you should ignore. Your job is to let that "Little Light " of yours SHINE. Do you remember that song? This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine!!!!
Purdman
 
Purdman said:
The only reason I am enjoying this thread is I get to see Jennies' pretty, smiling face again and again. Happy Saint Patricks day JAM. Here you have that .01% that you should ignore. Your job is to let that "Little Light " of yours SHINE. Do you remember that song? This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine!!!!
Purdman

Happy St. Paddy's Day to you, Purdman! :)

JAM
 
Its very sad to hear all the negative comments made about some great pool players. But its a predictable action taken by those jealous of others great accomblishments.Because Keith has reached a level not many will, both as a pro-player/gambler some day HOF, and just an all around nice guy. We find a few who take it upon themselves to try and discredit what he has done and will do in the future. Its again sad that this is the price he will have to pay for reaching a GREATNESS only known to a few.The good thing is many many more are proud of him and always wish him the best. And thats my opinion. My Grandma's opinion was if your can't say something nice about someone then best STFU.:eek: J/K ;)
 
PoolSleuth said:
BAM you got him again JAM:) :) :) :)

With a little reading you will find this has nothing to do with me. You will see any time KM's name is mentioned she goes nuts, name calling and totally out of line every time, I'm just her current target. As far as the people who come to her defense when she does this, who knows what their motives are. Trying to feel important, wanting to have K.M. be their friend, "Please notice me Keith, I defended you, be my friend, say hello to me in front of people at the next tournament and make me feel important". Maybe some just have no objectivity at all who knows.

I think you need to reread the thread and see what I said that was so bad, you won't find anything. Now I am going to say something that may be a little out of line. You may want to take a look at rule 26 in the IPT. If that rule is enforced more then one will be bounced from the tour quick. Lets hope they begin offering a substance abuse program for some of their players and I promise you that is my last word on the subject, plus I am going out of town for a few weeks getting a project started that should occupy me for like 8 to 12 months. I hope you won't miss me too much.
 
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macguy said:
Look, want to get mad at someone, write AZ about their photo section with almost every picture of KM looking S%^t faced with a drink in his hand. They have no other pictures then those to post? They drag him through the mud every day showing no respect for him not me.

Keith is a great player and he's still got game. Damn entertaining to watch, too. I wish him the best of luck in the IPT!

You made some negative, personal attacks on Keith and you tried to pretend it wasn't personal (it was). Then you followed it up with these even harsher, personal attacks. Then you attacked JAM as well ("enabler"), presumably as retaliation for calling you out.

I'm strongly in agreement with onepocketchump who referred to your controlling comments as those of a bible thumping moral nit. Look what you are doing! You're making sweeping judgments about his and her personal life. It's absurd.
 
macguy said:
...I am going out of town for a few weeks getting a project started that should occupy me for like 8 to 12 months.

/CHEER :D :) :D :p :o ;)

I hope you won't miss me too much.

Blackjack might miss you... nobody else will ;)
..........
 
shinobi said:
Keith is a great player and he's still got game. Damn entertaining to watch, too. I wish him the best of luck in the IPT!

You made some negative, personal attacks on Keith and you tried to pretend it wasn't personal (it was). Then you followed it up with these even harsher, personal attacks. Then you attacked JAM as well ("enabler"), presumably as retaliation for calling you out.

I'm strongly in agreement with onepocketchump who referred to your controlling comments as those of a bible thumping moral nit. Look what you are doing! You're making sweeping judgments about his and her personal life. It's absurd.
If you read this board you will hear people say terrible things about cuemakers, accuse players, by name mind you, of dumping. knock how players play, slow and so on, insult each other. Ever read some of the comments about Charlie W. One guy just in the last day or so said DP cues are complete junk in so many words. The same guy is now knocking me in this thread for having an opinion. Can we say hypocrite as he attacks a mans business on a public forum without knowing a thing about the guys cues.

My big offense was saying some players will have a tough time with the upcoming crop of super players in the IPT. I made the mistake of mentioning Keith's name since he is one of the ones I think will have a tough time. JAM went nut's, I can't help it, she should not read it if she is instantly going to start calling people names. Players are going to be discussed and that is a fact.
 
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shinobi said:
Keith is a great player and he's still got game. Damn entertaining to watch, too. I wish him the best of luck in the IPT!

You made some negative, personal attacks on Keith and you tried to pretend it wasn't personal (it was). Then you followed it up with these even harsher, personal attacks. Then you attacked JAM as well ("enabler"), presumably as retaliation for calling you out.

I'm strongly in agreement with onepocketchump who referred to your controlling comments as those of a bible thumping moral nit. Look what you are doing! You're making sweeping judgments about his and her personal life. It's absurd.


Great post Shinobi, it really sums up how I feel. It's pretty hard to believe the way some people will act when they have a username and a computer screen to hide behind.
 
macguy said:
If you read this board you will hear people say terrible things about cuemakers, accuse players, by name mind you, of dumping. knock how players they play, slow and so on, insult each other. One guy just in the last day or so said DP cues are complete junk in so many words. The same guy is now knocking me in this thread for having an opinion. Can we say hypocrite as he attacks a mans business on a public forum without knowing a thing about the guys cues. My big offense was saying some players will have a tough time with the upcoming crop of super players in the IPT. I made the mistake of mentioning Keith's name since he is one of the ones I think will have a tough time. JAM went nut's, I can't help it, she should not read it if she is instantly going to start calling people names. Players are going to be discussed and that is a fact.

So your excuse for personally attacking JAM and Keith is that other people do it and are hypocrites too? That's lame. "Jam, I'm sorry I wrote that Keith is an alcoholic over-the-hill player who is going to lose his tour card, and that you are his enabler, but hey some other guy said DP cues are junk so I guess it was okay". Not that you actually said you were sorry...
 
shinobi said:
So your excuse for personally attacking JAM and Keith is that other people do it and are hypocrites too? That's lame. "Jam, I'm sorry I wrote that Keith is an alcoholic over-the-hill player who is going to lose his tour card, and that you are his enabler, but hey some other guy said DP cues are junk so I guess it was okay". Not that you actually said you were sorry...

Sort of, yes, since I was singled out. Lets just end it here though, we all made our points.
 
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