IPT vs WPC?

heyjoe, why are you assuming that the ipt isnt turning a profit? Kt told me and several pro players (john schmidt, johhny archer, mike sigel, etc) that he has sold 51% of the ipt in may for 60million dollars. If this is infact true, then it also must be true that his tv deals in europe and the us must be paying off. i dont necessarily believe this, but i will give him the benifit of the doubt so far. No players checks have bounced so far. As i already wrote in this thread, i am no fan of kt, but i hope the ipt works for the players sake.

I also think it is very naive to think that any ipt player would risk his tour card for any other tourney, period. I had lunch yesterday with thorsten and Manalo, and they both said, as we discussed this very issue, there is NO DOUBTwhere they will go, and ALL of the other players. They will follow the money, and the money is in the ipt. It was quite sad to hear these two lament the fact that this year might be the last wpc and the last tourney of champions they might be able to attend.
 
NYC cue dude said:
I also think it is very naive to think that any ipt player would risk his tour card for any other tourney, period. I had lunch yesterday with thorsten and Manalo, and they both said, as we discussed this very issue, there is NO DOUBTwhere they will go, and ALL of the other players. They will follow the money, and the money is in the ipt. It was quite sad to hear these two lament the fact that this year might be the last wpc and the last tourney of champions they might be able to attend.
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I'm very happy for the players that they will be earning some great cash, however, if Trudeau manages to kill the WPC and the International (Not to mention the DCC and the US Open)Challenge of Champions:

Fa-uck Trudeau !
Fa-uck the IPT!
Fa-uck Trudeau's $50 DVD's!
Fa-uck Pool period!

I will not be part of KT's pool power trip!!!Pool is much bigger than Kevin Trudeau!I'm not going to support some ego maniac who claims to have said:"I'm going to own pool."

If on the other hand the IPT wants to co-exist without killing those other great events, I say:

Put Kevin Trudeau in the hall of fame!

JMO,
RJ
 
RJ, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I am just as horrified by these revelations as anyone. KT did in fact say he wanted to own pool, to my face at the world straight pool championships. I sponsored that event with my own money, and I think he wanted to make me feel small in some ego driven way.

Unfortunately, pool will survive with the ipt, without the support of the few guys like us.

Want to really puke? Thorsten and I compared scxhedules THIS year, andit appears that the WPC9ball, WOrld 8ball cahampionships (in dubai) and the Mosconi cup, ALL conflict with the ipt's 2006 calendar. Do you know how many IPT players will be at these other events? You won't have to think too hard on that. Don't forget that even for thebottom level players, there is guaranteed money at the IPT.
 
recoveryjones said:
I love the WPC and look forward to watching it in it's entirety every year.I love the format, the competition,most of the announcers and the way the game is presented.I have some complete Uncut UK sets and I like them better than accu-stat matches.

Before the IPT came around, the WPC was THE tournament. It was the tournament every player wanted to win more than any other tourney.
Now that the IPT has showed up on the scene, the WPC will be anti-climatic, at least cash wise for the players.The players have now had a taste of the decent cash and the addiction so to speak has been digested.

It is my hope that the WPC never dies because it's really a decent event.For the time being it also includes alot of talented Asian players that the IPT doesn't.
If Trudeau goes on a power trip and controls where the players can and can't play and the WPC dies in the process, I think it will be a great tragedy in the world of pool.
RJ
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Well put RJ, the WPC and matchroom sport events in general were the only decent paying events in pool period until the IPT came. With the exception of the WPC matchroom sport has always payed for it's participants travel expenses (air and hotel) something I guarantee you the IPT will never do.

I'm all for the IPT and it's success, but I don't want it to destroy the WPC, DCC, US Open, etc.
 
Manalo not representing Philippines in pool events other than IPT which most Filipinos think to be significant. I just can't imagine how the Filipino fans will feel. He will be crucified on his own pool stick.

It will be like:

"Hey, Marlon we need the top guns for the coming WPC, can we count on you?"

"---errr, huh, sorry I only play IPT's big money tournaments."

"$%%^$%^$#$%^, Manalo"
 
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Marlon will DEFINITELY not be there, if the schedules conflict, as they do now. Neither will EFREN, BUSTA, ALEX etc.

Here is the rub though. unlike other tournaments where u send in your entry fee, and if you don't show up, oh well, you just lose the cash. How many folks out there know that for the world 9 ball championships, the players SIGN a contract stating they will be there. Oh boy, this is going to get messy.
 
jimmyg said:
The suggestion is that the IPT players ban together and form a "players association" or "player's union", something sililiar to what all other major professional sports have; baseball, basketball etc. It's function would be to create one "voice" for all IPT card holders (150) and possibly the qualifying IPT tournament players to speak through, and to gain some negotiating leverage with KT and the IPT. This would give the IPT members the ability to be able to negotiate and contribute some input with the IPT for better rules, income participation, fairer payouts, tournament standards, possiblly providing benefits and preventing abusive and unfair rules and restrictions from being imposed against them .

All IPT card holders and possibly qualifying tournament players would be eligible to join the "association" which would have it's own attorney and elect "players representatives" to negotiate on their behalf, with all members having final a voice by way of voting on all, or just major issues, depending on how the Charter would be set up. Without such an player's organization uniting all IPT tour members, the members are lacking unity and are at the mercy of KT.

Rather than create division amoung the members, which is what the player's currently have, it actually will create unity. It's not really a suggestion, it's a sound business recommendation, and if I was your business advisor, I would insist on it. If something like this was already in place, many of the member's not fortunate to have their own attorney, could have had someone to take this recent "agent's" contract to the "association" attorney for advice and possibly avoid a potentially bad situation in the future.

The sooner something like this gets implemented, the better for the players.
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With or without a Players Association, they ARE at the mercy of KT. In the world according to KT, everyone is expendable.
 
recoveryjones said:
I love the WPC and look forward to watching it in it's entirety every year.I love the format, the competition,most of the announcers and the way the game is presented.I have some complete Uncut UK sets and I like them better than accu-stat matches.

Before the IPT came around, the WPC was THE tournament. It was the tournament every player wanted to win more than any other tourney.
Now that the IPT has showed up on the scene, the WPC will be anti-climatic, at least cash wise for the players.The players have now had a taste of the decent cash and the addiction so to speak has been digested.

It is my hope that the WPC never dies because it's really a decent event.For the time being it also includes alot of talented Asian players that the IPT doesn't.
If Trudeau goes on a power trip and controls where the players can and can't play and the WPC dies in the process, I think it will be a great tragedy in the world of pool.
RJ
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Even in the world of the IPT, a $500,000 purse with a 100K first prize is not chopped liver.
 
NYC cue dude said:
... the WPC 9ball, World 8ball championships (in Dubai) and the Mosconi cup, ALL conflict with the IPT's 2006 calendar. ...
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I notice that the IPT 2007 dates haven't been released yet.

The one remaining conflict in 2006 is the Mosconi Cup. The IPT KotH and the Tour Qualifier at the Wynn will end on December 17th. Currently the Mosconi Cup has no location listed, although the dates are listed as December 16-19. This is a little strange as the 19th is a Tuesday, and in the past the Mosconi Cup has ended on a Sunday roughly a week before Christmas. This year, if the Cup is in Europe which would be the normal rotation, the players would be unable to play in Europe any sooner than the 18th if they happened to play on the next-to-last day of the IPT events.
 
One concern I have about Kevin Trudeau barring IPT players from other tournaments is that there won't be any top players playing 14.1, One Pocket or 9 ball tournaments. It means that pro pool, is only 8 ball. That is very disturbing.
 
Yup, this is all very disturbing. I don't know if Efren and the rest of the filipino pool players sponsored by Puyat will renege on their commitment to play in the Asian 9ball tour if the schedules overlap with the IPT, considering that it is sponsored by San Miguel Beer.

SMB, as some of the filipinos here will tell you, is an institution in the Philippines and cutting off ties with the company would be like screwing with your best friend's wife. That's the kind of backlash you'd get. Filipinos have an almost emotional attachment with San Miguel Beer (which is one reason why foreign brands like Heineken, Miller, and Budweiser have never really caught on in the Philippines. Another reason is it just plain tastes good!).

So we'll see if KT will gamble loyalty vs. money when the time comes. The filipinos are a big draw in any tournament, and if they would leave en masse then the credibility of any "international" tournament would be in doubt.

Of course, he could still get a few filipinos who aren't from the puyat stable, like maybe parica (who himself was once a SMB endorser), sambajon, and the others from the Mariano stable like Orcullo, Manalo, and Valle (not really sure about these), but things would really be different without Efren, Bustamante, and Pagulayan (?).

It would do KT, the IPT and pool in general, good if he could just somehow get together with the organizers of these other tournaments and come up with a consensus on who gets what dates and adjust their schedules accordingly. Like 2 weeks of every month beginning January is reserved for the DCC, February for the BCA Open, March for the US Open, April for an IPT event, May for the World Pool League, June for the World Pool Masters, July for another IPT event, August for the Challenge of Champions, September for the Mosconi Cup, December for the IPT King of the Hill, etc. etc. The other tours can then work their way around this schedule, like the Asian 9-ball can take the last week of every month from March to July. The European tour can overlap with the Asian tour because they're mutually exclusive (as of now). Straight pool, 1 pocket, 9ball tournaments can take the first weeks of the month, etc. etc.

Isn't this kinda like how the golf and tennis tournaments work things out?

Whatever happens, things are definitely looking up for pool and like it or not, KT now has a major say on how things will look like in the future. He can either steamroll the other tournaments into submission or work together with them for the betterment of pool. Let's hope he does the right thing....


"Can't we all just f***ing get along??!" -- from an ancient Chinese proverb
"Do no evil." -- Google co-founder sergei brin
 
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Like Jesus H. himself

QUOTE=NYC cue dude]heyjoe, why are you assuming that the ipt isnt turning a profit? Kt told me and several pro players (john schmidt, johhny archer, mike sigel, etc) that he has sold 51% of the ipt in may for 60million dollars. If this is infact true, then it also must be true that his tv deals in europe and the us must be paying off. i dont necessarily believe this, but i will give him the benifit of the doubt so far. No players checks have bounced so far. As i already wrote in this thread, i am no fan of kt, but i hope the ipt works for the players sake
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When he stood next to you and the other players, and those words "$60 million" rolled off his beknighted tongue, it must have felt like Jesus himself was speaking, right? Come on Cue Dude, get a grip on yourself.

Sure, if he's got tens of millions to blow and if he wants to throw it at pool players, they're all going to take it and why not? But as a business model, there's nothing there to sell. Eurosport took the IPT for FREE. IPT claimed on their website that the North American Open was being shown on ESPN/Star in Asia, which is the world's largest sports broadcaster with a subscriber base of 200 million homes in 35 countries, and that was patently false. I live in Asia and it wasn't on. IPT ratings on OLN were a .1 which I'm told is just barely acceptable and that the demographic was old, which is not what they wanted. What businessman in his right mind is going to hand KT $60 million. For what?

Believe me, if Efren and Django and Marlon and the others don't play in the WPC in Manila, they will be crucified on their sticks. Pool is massively popular in the Philippines and the WPC as a brand name is well entrenched. The World title means something in the PI. Sure every Filipino understands that you've got to go get the dough, but if you snub you're own country when the big one comes to town, they won't forget.
 
heyjoe said:
Believe me, if Efren and Django and Marlon and the others don't play in the WPC in Manila, they will be crucified on their sticks. Pool is massively popular in the Philippines and the WPC as a brand name is well entrenched. The World title means something in the PI. Sure every Filipino understands that you've got to go get the dough, but if you snub you're own country when the big one comes to town, they won't forget.
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100% for sure Efren,Manalo and Django will be at this years WPC in Manila.
It's next years WPC that could be in doubt with the apparent Trudeau rumours that are swirling around.
RJ
 
recoveryjones said:
100% for sure Efren,Manalo and Django will be at this years WPC in Manila.
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Let's hope so!

recoveryjones said:
It's next years WPC that could be in doubt with the apparent Trudeau rumours that are swirling around.
RJ
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Hopefully, all the unfounded KT rumors would be proven false. For his sake and the sake of pool in general. Otherwise, ....
 
It looks like Efren and Busta are playing the San Miguel Beer tour. The qualifying tournament for the coming WPC. Manalo is not playing. Luat, Valle and Gallego are the rest of the team. However they are also playing for the top 2 spots to represent the Philippines.
 
crosseyedjoe said:
It looks like Efren and Busta are playing the San Miguel Beer tour. The qualifying tournament for the coming WPC. Manalo is not playing. Luat, Valle and Gallego are the rest of the team. However they are also playing for the top 2 spots to represent the Philippines.
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More than two players per country can go to the WPC. Each region gets a certain number of entries and then there are wildcards and qualifiers.

I only mention this because I think you have mentioned something about only two players from each country going to the WPC a couple times now.

Canada ussually has five or six entries.
 
Keith Buck said:
More than two players per country can go to the WPC. Each region gets a certain number of entries and then there are wildcards and qualifiers.

I only mention this because I think you have mentioned something about only two players from each country going to the WPC a couple times now.

Canada ussually has five or six entries.
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I think there may be confusion due to the World 8 Ball Championships which i believe is a smaller field and held in Dubai.
 
I was wrong. You are correct. There 9 players from Philippines last year. 4 FIlipinos in 2004 except Alex P., he was representing Canada that year. All I know is that the San Miguel Beer Tournament is the qualification round for the WPC tournament for Asian players.

Players usually earn points playing by the winning the leg. Maybe a certain numbers of players from different qualifiying tournaments are selected.

WPC also increased the numner of qualifying players. I think they are thinkering with the format.
 
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i have no doubt that any player qualified will play in this years wpc, as long as it doesnt conflict with the ipt schedule. Going forward, if kt follows through on his own words (this is no rumor, as the story is in print in the current billiards digest), and makes membership to the ipt tour exclusive, the players will not play in any other tourament in the world, PERIOD. Unless of course, kt gives permission. There is no player that will voluntarily choose another event over an ipt event, ever, for the reasons already previously stated, ie. tour requalification and purse sizes.
 
NYC cue dude said:
i have no doubt that any player qualified will play in this years wpc, as long as it doesnt conflict with the ipt schedule. Going forward, if kt follows through on his own words (this is no rumor, as the story is in print in the current billiards digest), and makes membership to the ipt tour exclusive, the players will not play in any other tourament in the world, PERIOD. Unless of course, kt gives permission. There is no player that will voluntarily choose another event over an ipt event, ever, for the reasons already previously stated, ie. tour requalification and purse sizes.
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The make or break of this comes down to ,

' Do enough people want to watch it?'.

Is 8-ball , no shot clock and a dreadfully slow table the way to go?
After watching Ralph S v Thorston, and falling asleep twice?, I realised why the US Pro game went 9-ball!

Gabber.
 
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