Is a ‘firm’ grip and ‘short’ backswing okay?

[irspow]

First, why I am experimenting with these changes. A very loose grip, with a gap between web and top of cue, often leads to erratic contact point and cue jumping off of my bridge hand. Also the loose grip and firm stroke makes that jumping effect even worse. I try to use same acceleration on every stroke, only varying backswing length ro adjust the speed of shot. However, trying to get the perfect backswing length for each shot speed leads to either being slightly too short or too long.

My thinking on these changes has led me to use a firmer grip with no gap and always using a backswing that I know is slightly too short. These changes have eliminated the erratic cue contact points, the elimination of cue stick jump, and ensuring that I accelerate and not decelerate into contact. Speed control has improved and better cue ball action have resulted.

My question is if these changes are good, or are they band-aids for other problems that will prevent me from improving long term?

 

[FranCrimi]

Not all loose grips are alike. There are bad ones and good ones. Tight grips serve a purpose on some shots, but you should be able to do both successfully. If the loose grip you're experimenting with isn't working, then try other loose grips.

 

[irspow]

Not all loose grips are alike. There are bad ones and good ones. Tight grips serve a purpose on some shots, but you should be able to do both successfully. If the loose grip you're experimenting with isn't working, then try other loose grips.

Thanks. Maybe my use of ‘firm’ might be misleading. For a while I was holding the cue so loosely, basically just resting on the cadle of curled fingers, that my hand was somewhat open with a clear gap between top of cue and web of thumb. What I am calling ‘firm’ is just enough extra hand grip to close that gap. But I guess I will keep trying to make it looser while keeping the gap closed. The experiments never end.

 

[Oikawa]

(Not an instructor, just speaking from my own limited experience)

You talk about a gap, I suggest experimenting with a grip that has a smaller or no gap, but is still loose. This is what worked best for me.

That being said, many issues with a loose grip being inconsistent aren't directly from the grip, but indirectly from other parts of your technique. Without knowing your technique, I'll say what helped me personally use a loose grip with wrist action effectively, so maybe you can try or think about these:
- Being relaxed, not just in the grip but the whole body
- Eliminating elbow movement during the stroke to the minimum before contact by using the wrist (after contact elbow drop is fine, and can even help to have a longer follow-through for less risk of decceleration before impact)
- Using more contact points touching the cue (chest and chin), keeping the cue in a straight line effortlesly by applying a constant light presure to both contact points during the stroke. This helps me perform a dead-straight piston stroke effortlessly, which makes the grip action more consistent.
- Having a relaxed stroke, if you have any muscle tension during the final stroke things start to fall apart with a relaxed grip or with wrist action

 

[Island Drive]

Judd Trump/Orcullo

 

[FranCrimi]

Thanks. Maybe my use of ‘firm’ might be misleading. For a while I was holding the cue so loosely, basically just resting on the cadle of curled fingers, that my hand was somewhat open with a clear gap between top of cue and web of thumb. What I am calling ‘firm’ is just enough extra hand grip to close that gap. But I guess I will keep trying to make it looser while keeping the gap closed. The experiments never end.

Well, it depends on what happens to that gap as your armswing approaches impact. When you're first learning, loose grips are not that easy to manage as the cue moves through the stroke. It's a natural instinct to want to hang on to the cue as your arm moves, so depending on how you hang on to the cue, you can cause it to go off line. With my loose grip, I prefer to keep all fingers on the cue in a very soft fist grip and allow the pressure to roll back as the cue moves forward. Grabbing while the cue is in motion is almost a guaranteed cue-twister.

But once you can master the art of a loose grip, the door opens for you for a number of difficult shots that become much easier.

The use of a firm grip with a short stroke is appealing at first because it cancels out the imperfections in your stroke. But it will cause bad stroke timing if you use that stroke exclusively, because on long shots where you should be extending your stroke length, you will wind up poking the shot because you need more speed. Bad timing=missed shots.

 

[irspow]

Thank you all for the tips and ideas. I appreciate it. Happy holidays!

 

[WobblyStroke]

what u describe as a 'firm' grip without a gap is most commonly recommended. dr dave refers to gaps in the grip as 'slop' for the very reason u experienced...they can lead to erratic cue action. But u can have no gaps and still be quite loose and cradling the cue very gently.

I suggest u search up threads with 'grip' in the title. there are a few but members share a wide range of grip concepts in them. a minority prefer a 'tight is right' aporoach. most like some variation of loose. the threads are an interesting read and a good way to see several approaches detailed out by guys they work for. one does not fit all but the grip is arguably the most impottant piece of ur mechanics so finding a fit for u and ur style is of utmost importance. A minority also prefers a gap but looks like that one is likely not for u.

 

[Dan White]

You've gotten good advice so far (imo, non instructor). The thing to realize is that nobody can ultimately figure out what is right for you. Relaxed is always good. It's up to you to figure out how to achieve that (and, actually, to realize what "relaxed" really means). It just takes time to learn what is important and what works, vs those things you think are important but turn out not to be.

Try to enjoy the journey that never really ends, at least for us part-timers.