Is a Straight Stroke All That Important?

Everything changes everything: footwork, grips, head height, shoulder, elbow, wrist position, head height, bridge length....

Lou Figueroa
just for starters

Silly me

Being a simple soul I thought that the speed of the tip when it contacted the cue ball determined speed

Please elaborate on footwork, grips, head height, shoulder, elbow, wrist position, head height, bridge length....

I came to this board to learn - this is all new stuff to me
 
Scaramouche,
Please stay out of this pissing contest lest you get, you know. . .


Best to just stand back and watch the protagonists do battle . . .
 
Scaramouche,
Please stay out of this pissing contest lest you get, you know. . .


Best to just stand back and watch the protagonists do battle . . .

I just wander in between frames of the Canadian Snooker Championship. :grin:

American pool discussions in all of their unorganized chaotic glory is as good as a trip to the zoo.

But thank you for your concern over my safety from the Wilson Pro Security Service.

Now back to little balls, little pockets, on acres of green.
 
Silly me

Being a simple soul I thought that the speed of the tip when it contacted the cue ball determined speed

Please elaborate on footwork, grips, head height, shoulder, elbow, wrist position, head height, bridge length....

I came to this board to learn - this is all new stuff to me

..............
 
Last edited:
Many players, when performing their practice strokes, cue aiming at somewhere other than the spot which they intend to strike on their shot stroke.

Some players, as mentioned, have wavering motions or other types of odd hand/arm actions.

As with shooting, the primary focus is on repetition and accuracy of strike.

With that, I don't see that a straight stroke would be necessary as long as you consistently deliver the tip to the ball in a manner consistent with your intentions.

But, having a straight stroke does remove the larger possibility of miss-related errors from falling on a faulty stroke.

You can drive a car with alignment issues, but if you aren't a very good driver to begin with, it will be more difficult to know whether or not the poor driving is due to the driver or the car.

I have no idea if I even have a stroke, so I can only guess. :confused:
 
Yes, it did. And, I just found out why. Look at this sticky- http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=278062.

It will explain exactly what Lou is doing here. Nothing more than baiting out those that give instruction on here in the hopes of getting them banned. He can't do it in the aiming threads anymore, so he started one on stroking, knowing it would provoke the same response.
Lou didn't do anything like that. You're the disruption in this thread, Neil, creating a fight out of nothing and blaming it on others.

pj
chgo
 
Yes, it did. And, I just found out why. Look at this sticky- http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=278062.

It will explain exactly what Lou is doing here. Nothing more than baiting out those that give instruction on here in the hopes of getting them banned. He can't do it in the aiming threads anymore, so he started one on stroking, knowing it would provoke the same response.

And he was correct, you just can't pass it up. It DOES take two to tango and you seem to always be a willing dance partner.:rolleyes:
 
Only under pressure!
randyg
This is probably the answer.

Anything else but straight, unless you're an extremely exceptional human being, will lead to trouble when your mind wonders for any reason. The most likely culprit is pressure.

The other thing is what are we talking about? Playing in the local tavern on Tuesday afternoon for a beer or a major house @ 11:00 PM for $50 a game?

You don't need a major super accurate stroke to run a single 9 ball rack. I did that within 6 months of learning which end was the business end. You do need one to run 6 racks or consistantly running 2 racks.
 
Any stroke works, as long as you keep your body planted, and nothing moves but your stroke arm. Nothing.
 
Hey Lou, Neil and Patrick,
you know that other thread where we are all discussing hijacking of threads and vacations? This is what I am talking about.

What started out as a decent thread became...

Neil accusing Lou of showing an anti-instructor bias (which contributed nothing to the conversation)
Lou accusing Neil of showing his bias against Lou
Patrick chiming in to protect Lou (which contributed nothing to conversation)

And then it all just crashed and burned into a typical AzB clusterf^ck.

If you want to debate your opinions about straightness of stroke and it's importance, then feel free. But no more attacks on each other.

Mike
 
Constant chip on the shoulder?? No, as you well know. I DO have a chip for certain antagonist people and people that are just full of crap though. And, as to changing the subject, you are full of it. Exactly how is quoting the OP changing the subject? Or is it that you are just trying to knock me again, as you so love to do?? But, of course YOUR post isn't antagonistic at all, is it??

I really would like to be more of a peacemaker on here, but my nature has always been that of a fighter. So, when I see people purposely posting nonsense on here. Especially nonsense that they KNOW is nonsense, or post something that is just plain wrong, yeah, my hackles get riled up.

Lou and I and others have been through this scenario before. Several times. And, Lou has admitted that he enjoys getting us riled up. Hence, what I believe is the reason behind his original post on this subject. And, here is my proof of it- Lou is enough of an accomplished player to well know that if your stroke isn't straight at impact, the cb is NOT going down the line you want it to. That cb is going where you point the cue unless you masse' it. (allowing for squirt which is really a small masse' effect)

Yet, he wants to act like he doesn't know that, and imply that a straight stroke is not necessary. Later, he even goes on to say that a straight stroke can mess up the mechanics for speed control. Which he also knows full well is total B.S. Then, he constantly wants to chastise me for seeing through him, yet never responds to any of the points I made on subject.

So, yes, when someone with credibility, such as Lou, starts his little games, and doesn't give a crap about those that look to this site for instruction, and doesn't care at all that he is misleading them, then I get rather peeved. Then you get guys like dkleather that want to call instructors liars, and outright lie and say that instructors teach things that they don't teach at all, but actually teach the opposite of what he says, then I am going to correct them. The fact that they want to try and act civil, while putting a spin on what they said and what I said, and turn it on me because I called them out on their bull, just shows what kind of person they are and what their agenda is. They aren't here to help anyone, just play their stupid little internet games. And, they really don't give a crap who they mislead on here. Just so it looks like they are the good guy, and the other guy isn't. People like that are the ones that turn what could be a great thing into garbage.

When I see blantantly false info, I will correct it. How I correct it is soley dependent on how it is presented. Someone asks a question, I will do my best to supply an answer to the best of my knowledge. As I have done thousands of times on here. Someone is purposefully trying to be antagonistic, I will respond in kind. I have over 9k posts on here. You want to point out a few that seem antagonistic to you, yet you have MANY posts on here that are exactly that. Go clean up your own house first. Better yet, when it has been shown to NOT be my norm on here, maybe take a look at what I am responding to in the first place, and why I took the attitude I did. Several others have said something to me, some in private. They couldn't understand what I was seeing. Yet, now, they are doing the exact same thing because now they do see it, and are sick of it. So, now they are being accused of attacking the people that post B.S. on here.

All I'm reading here is anger, "I'm a fighter", "I get riled up", "I call people out" etc etc.

Again, you name me and misquote me.

Everything is BS that does not agree with you, well these forums are about opinions, I have mine based on a life in cue sports, you have yours. The difference is I don't know yours, telling someone they are wrong does not constitute a constructive reply, you have to tell them why you think they are wrong.

You clearly do not wish to be involved in this debate at all you just wish to push your own agenda.

Also for your information, I do not "act" civil, I AM civil.

I don't have 9000 posts on here yet I have been coming on here for many years (mostly as a lurker), I have an interest in cue making, an interest in the history of the games and an interest in all our struggles to get the most we can out the time we have to devote to the game. Am afraid I don't have a lot of interest in having my opinions (however wrong they may be) patronised, belittled and ridiculed by anyone who does not have the wherewithal to justify their stance.
 
What started out as a decent thread became...

Neil accusing Lou of showing an anti-instructor bias (which contributed nothing to the conversation)
Lou accusing Neil of showing his bias against Lou
Patrick chiming in to protect Lou (which contributed nothing to conversation).
Guilty.

But make note of the order of those events.

(And to be fair, Lou was nothing but civil in his response to being attacked.)

pj
chgo
 
Same old rhetoric form you Lou. You only want to fixate on the instructor part, and not respond to anything else I have said. Which, again, proves my point. As far as staying out of YOUR thread, I'll stay out of it when you stay out of everyone else's threads.

It doesn't matter that you are an amateur at all. When you do things the right way, when you take a layoff, all you have to do is fine tune to the speed of the table. Everything else is still there.


You're about the only person to mention the word "instructors" in this thread.

And if you can lay off and then come back to the game weeks or months later and resume playing at the same level of performance: mazeltov.

Lou Figueroa
 
Silly me

Being a simple soul I thought that the speed of the tip when it contacted the cue ball determined speed

Please elaborate on footwork, grips, head height, shoulder, elbow, wrist position, head height, bridge length....

I came to this board to learn - this is all new stuff to me


You're right -- it is the speed of the tip. But that tip is being controlled by your grip, arm, elbow, and shoulder, which BTW, are all in position thanks to your footwork and whatever the rest of your body has done while getting into shooting position.

Lou Figueroa
 
Constant chip on the shoulder?? No, as you well know. I DO have a chip for certain antagonist people and people that are just full of crap though. And, as to changing the subject, you are full of it. Exactly how is quoting the OP changing the subject? Or is it that you are just trying to knock me again, as you so love to do?? But, of course YOUR post isn't antagonistic at all, is it??

I really would like to be more of a peacemaker on here, but my nature has always been that of a fighter. So, when I see people purposely posting nonsense on here. Especially nonsense that they KNOW is nonsense, or post something that is just plain wrong, yeah, my hackles get riled up.

Lou and I and others have been through this scenario before. Several times. And, Lou has admitted that he enjoys getting us riled up. Hence, what I believe is the reason behind his original post on this subject. And, here is my proof of it- Lou is enough of an accomplished player to well know that if your stroke isn't straight at impact, the cb is NOT going down the line you want it to. That cb is going where you point the cue unless you masse' it. (allowing for squirt which is really a small masse' effect)

Yet, he wants to act like he doesn't know that, and imply that a straight stroke is not necessary. Later, he even goes on to say that a straight stroke can mess up the mechanics for speed control. Which he also knows full well is total B.S. Then, he constantly wants to chastise me for seeing through him, yet never responds to any of the points I made on subject.

So, yes, when someone with credibility, such as Lou, starts his little games, and doesn't give a crap about those that look to this site for instruction, and doesn't care at all that he is misleading them, then I get rather peeved. Then you get guys like dkleather that want to call instructors liars, and outright lie and say that instructors teach things that they don't teach at all, but actually teach the opposite of what he says, then I am going to correct them. The fact that they want to try and act civil, while putting a spin on what they said and what I said, and turn it on me because I called them out on their bull, just shows what kind of person they are and what their agenda is. They aren't here to help anyone, just play their stupid little internet games. And, they really don't give a crap who they mislead on here. Just so it looks like they are the good guy, and the other guy isn't. People like that are the ones that turn what could be a great thing into garbage.

When I see blantantly false info, I will correct it. How I correct it is soley dependent on how it is presented. Someone asks a question, I will do my best to supply an answer to the best of my knowledge. As I have done thousands of times on here. Someone is purposefully trying to be antagonistic, I will respond in kind. I have over 9k posts on here. You want to point out a few that seem antagonistic to you, yet you have MANY posts on here that are exactly that. Go clean up your own house first. Better yet, when it has been shown to NOT be my norm on here, maybe take a look at what I am responding to in the first place, and why I took the attitude I did. Several others have said something to me, some in private. They couldn't understand what I was seeing. Yet, now, they are doing the exact same thing because now they do see it, and are sick of it. So, now they are being accused of attacking the people that post B.S. on here.


lol. Well goodness gracious! Which is it? Am I an accomplished player or the slub you and yours always like to point to from some video?

And where have I said I like getting anyone riled up?!

Look, I am not trying to get anyone riled up. I am not playing a game with this thread - I think it is a completely valid line of discussion to be questioning how important a straight stroke is.

Lastly, if you want to talk about it you at least need to try and read what I write with a little more attention and stop imagining words that aren't there. For starters: as Patrick has pointed out to you, I have not said that a straight stoke will mess up your speed control. You are tilting at monsters that are really just windmills.

Lou Figueroa
 
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