Is Billiard industry legally obligated to take care of starving pro players?

[vagabond]

After reading some posts on this board I get a feeling that some of the posters are making it look like that pro players are entitled for a living and also the postings indicate that the industry needs to chip in.I do not know whether the pro players truely feel that way or not.But the posters appear to strongly believe that the pro are entitled.I do not know whether these posters represent the pros players or not.
I am of the opinion that the industry is NEITHER LEGALLY NOR MORALLY obligated to take care of the pro players.Expecting the industry to take care of them is nothing but sense of entitlement.My position is:you are entitled for nothing.Live with that.
I like to play devil`s advocate.Inviting slings and arrows.....

Note: only one arrow at a time
Vagabond

 

[Rude Dog]

After reading some posts on this board I get a feeling that some of the posters are making it look like that pro players are entitled for a living and also the postings indicate that the industry needs to chip in.I do not know whether the pro players truely feel that way or not.But the posters appear to strongly believe that the pro are entitled.I do not know whether these posters represent the pros players or not.
I am of the opinion that the industry is NEITHER LEGALLY NOR MORALLY obligated to take care of the pro players.Expecting the industry to take care of them is nothing but sense of entitlement.My position is:you are entitled for nothing.Live with that.
I like to play devil`s advocate.Inviting slings and arrows.....

Note: only one arrow at a time
Vagabond

No, I don't feel that they are ENTITLED to anything, but I think they deserve it. They've given their life to this game, good or bad, and that seems to be worth something, IMO. Peace, John.

 

[vagabond]

No, I don't feel that they are ENTITLED to anything, but I think they deserve it. They've given their life to this game, good or bad, and that seems to be worth of something, IMO. Peace, John.

I liked that diplomatic response and I can`t disagree with that.Few days I drove thru kingman and this time stopped at McDonalds instead of my favorite Taco Bell.

 

[Celtic]

Are starving pool players legally obligated to take care of the billiard industry? Because alot of what I read on this forum is people putting the weight of the success or failure of pool squarely on their shoulders. I believe this door swings both ways myself.

 

[Nostroke]

I liked that diplomatic response and I can`t disagree with that.Few days I drove thru kingman and this time stopped at McDonalds instead of my favorite Taco Bell.

In What Nat King Cole classic is Kingman Az mentioned?

 

[Rude Dog]

In What Nat King Cole classic is Kingman Az mentioned?

Get your kicks on Route 66?

 

[SnakePool]

how many of the pro players are taken care of by the NFL? How many are taken care of if they are injured and can no longer play?

Being a professional does not entitle you to "special" privileges. Alot the nfl guys lose/waste their money on crap and needless BLING. I say if you don't take care of yourself, who will?

If I was to ever go pro, which indeed may never happen, I have one word for you... INTEREST!!!!

 

[JustPlay]

No, I don't feel that they are ENTITLED to anything, but I think they deserve it. They've given their life to this game, good or bad, and that seems to be worth something, IMO. Peace, John.

Over the last 15 years (and maybe longer) the only retired and current pool players who have committed their time, money and efforts to make Professional Pool a success (other than playing) in the US are Grady Mathews, Allen Hopkins, Steve Mizerak (Senior events), Charlie Williams, Pat Flemming and now Mike Sigel w/ KT.

Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Earl Strickland, Johnny Archer, Buddy Hall and most of the other HOF's just played pool. I have not seen or heard of anyone of them, even today solicit corporations for sponsorships, promote tournaments or even go out of their way to support the other players who I mentioned above with their endevors. And if they do, they all have their hands out first and foremost, thats what is important to them.

Where are all the HOF's today? Non-existant or if they do show up to a tourny or event, they want a "appearence" fee, free room and board, free entry into the tournament and free food. What about the new players today and the future players? The HOF's or the forefathers of the game did not look out for these players, buy trying to make the game a success at a professional level, they just were looking out for themselves and what they can get for themselves. That is partly why Professional pool in the US is like is today and for the most part what it will be for the future. Player have to look out for themselves.

So, I think the HOF's deserve what they have sewn. Nothing. They should all be thanking Mike Sigel for getting them involved in the IPT.

This has nothing to do with any of those players skills on the pool table or their personalities or weather or not they are a good or bad person. I am just talking about there contributions outside of playing, that has detracted professional pool in the US to be on par with other professional games and sports and contribute to a Professional Tour with some longivity to it.

 

[mjantti]

I'm not familiar with USA pension system, but do retired pro players have a pension ? I bet many players haven't paid their taxes on their pool related income.

So, my question is: how can a retired pro player support himself if he hasn't been able to put money aside during his career ? Some players might find themselves unable to play and have to retire (Miz, Kim Davenport almost...)

 

[onepocketchump]

No, the "billiard industry" is not required to take care of any players nor run a pro tour. The only reason that the industry as a group (the BCA) takes an interest in professional pool is to further the popularity of pool and therefore sell more pool equipment, particularly pool tables and cloth. The primary reason that any individual company does anything with professional pool is exposure. The secondary reason is probably a toss up between altruism and ego.

The majority of this industry is pool tables and cloth. That is what is most sold in this country. Most of those people buying pool tables and cloth don't even care who the number one professional pool player is. Most of the league players in this country don't care who the number one professional pool player is.

The "industry" has a financial obligation to itself to collectively do what is needed to make the game so attractive that not only are people "playing" but that there are literally tens of thousands of players who are actively TRYING to become professionals. Then, and only then, will pro players be taken care of. But the industry as a collective has failed and so private promoters OWN the playing of organized pool on both the amateur and pro levels.

John

 

[vagabond]

i'm missing something in this thread?

as far as i know there is no organization known as "the billiard industry".

if there is not an organization known as "the billiard industry" how could they be legally obligated to take care of anything???

where would they get the funds to take care of anything???

where do they get the personel to run "the billiard industry"

Hi,
The term Billiard industry is used refering to the manufacturors of products used to play pool---tables,sticks,cloth,balls,Chalk ,cue repair kit hand gloves etc..
Many pros seem to expect that they should be getting most of their pay checks from these manufacturers.My position is : NO,they are NOT entitled.
I always talk about legal and moral obligations when talking about relationships between 2 groups of people or two individuals etc.I believe that in the absence of those obligations one looses the right to demand.

 

[Snapshot9]

They

don't have anything unless they have other sources of income,
or have to rely on friends they have made for business offers.
I feel this is the cart before the horse because we do not have
an organization in our country that is anywhere advanced enough
to even make goals concerning the welfare of retired pool players,
let alone work towards it. Most pro players live a 'day to day'
existence without a great deal of security for the future. I feel
for the ones that are married and have kids, the pressure must
be enormous on them. They have as much security as an aging
hooker, and unless someone comes along like Henry Winkler did
in Night Shift to rescue them, their futures don't look too good.

 

[vagabond]

In What Nat King Cole classic is Kingman Az mentioned?

I rarely watch hollywood movies.I watch sitcoms and CNN, FOX news on TV.I listen to Rush Limbaugh on Radio on occassions.Beyond this I know nothing about entertaiment industry.

 

[Rich R.]

So, I think the HOF's deserve what they have sewn. Nothing.

I think you are being a little bit rough on the HOF's of the past.

Most never made a living from playing tournament pool. If they made a living from pool at all, it was from playing on the road, which takes a lot of time and has no security.
A few were lucky enough to start businesses, usually pool rooms, which is not the most lucritive business in the world. Those were the lucky ones.
Few of these players had the education to do anything but play pool.
This is the life these players chose and I don't mean for you to feel sorry for them. But there is a limit as to what they could have done to promote pool, without getting some sort of fee for it.

Don't be too quick to judge the HOF's of the past. It was not as glamorous a life at you may think.

I do agree that they should be thankfull to MS and KT for bringing them back into the light and giving them a good pay day. I'm sure most of them are very appreciative.

 

[vagabond]

don't have anything unless they have other sources of income,
They have as much security as an aging
hooker, and

After the pimp`s cut and paying cocaine dealer, a hooker still has some money.If she carefully invests she should be fine otherwise a job in Donut shop will be waiting for her.If a pro player has a trade like Jeff Carter ( is a fitter and is now working in construction) he can survive.

 

[Snapshot9]

I assume ..

After the pimp`s cut and paying cocaine dealer, a hooker still has some money.If she carefully invests she should be fine otherwise a job in Donut shop will be waiting for her.If a pro player has a trade like Jeff Carter ( is a fitter and is now working in construction) he can survive.

That this is speculation on your part, or otherwise you do not have
any real experience with either. Hookers do not feel like having sex
on coke (maybe after the high, but not during), and guys can not
perform on coke. Most hookers do not have a 'pimp', and times are
hard, they do not get much, and plus when they wake up everyday,
they are usually broke. And when you have not had any real job
experience for years and years, getting a 9 to 5 job is not the easiest
thing to do, even though they want to. Plus many have outstanding
warrants on them.

 

[vagabond]

That this is speculation on your part, or otherwise you do not have
any real experience with either. Hookers do not feel like having sex
on coke (maybe after the high, but not during), and guys can not
perform on coke. Most hookers do not have a 'pimp', and times are
hard, they do not get much, and plus when they wake up everyday,
they are usually broke. And when you have not had any real job
experience for years and years, getting a 9 to 5 job is not the easiest
thing to do, even though they want to. Plus many have outstanding
warrants on them.

I am yielding to your experience.

 

[JustPlay]

I think you are being a little bit rough on the HOF's of the past.

Most never made a living from playing tournament pool. If they made a living from pool at all, it was from playing on the road, which takes a lot of time and has no security.
A few were lucky enough to start businesses, usually pool rooms, which is not the most lucritive business in the world. Those were the lucky ones.
Few of these players had the education to do anything but play pool.
This is the life these players chose and I don't mean for you to feel sorry for them. But there is a limit as to what they could have done to promote pool, without getting some sort of fee for it.

Don't be too quick to judge the HOF's of the past. It was not as glamorous a life at you may think.

I do agree that they should be thankfull to MS and KT for bringing them back into the light and giving them a good pay day. I'm sure most of them are very appreciative.

I know their is not much money in being a professional pool player unless you are in the top 20 in the world or/and have sponsorship(s) and the majority of them had and continue to gamble in back rooms to help make a living (but, that is their choice alone). My point is that most of the HOF's could have and still can lend there names and some of their time to help create a regular professional tour or help get sponsorship from somewhere. I don't mind if they get some compensation for it, its their time and by winning major tournaments throughout their careers, got into the HOF of billiards they are entitled to compensation in these regards. But, these guys don't even get together and make an effort in the least bit to help the players and promoters of today here in the US.

Most of these HOF's played in an era that had regular professional tournament schedules, compared to today with only major tournaments being held. Today, the majority of players come from over seas and are winning most of the tournaments. Which is goes to show how great pool has become around the world and looks like it will continue to do so. But here in the US, we are back to playing catch up by not having a mens professional tour. The new generation of players or players who choose a pool players life will have to at least graduated college and have a back up plan. Mens professional pool here in the US needs help from it HOF's if its going to come back and succeed. I can only thank Mike Sigel and the others who are willing to sacrafice to make that happen, no matter what the format of the tour is. Changes can be made, but it has to start somewhere.


Thanks for reading to my ramblings...........

 

[JAM]

...Thanks for reading to my ramblings...........

I actually enjoyed reading your "ramblings." Much of what you post does make quite a bit of sense, to me at least!

JAM

 

[Nostroke]

Get your kicks on Route 66?

That's it except the actual title is just Rte 66 i think.