Is billiards the toughest sport?

BPG24,

I read in another thread you're a chess player. Decades go, I used to play a lot, but am by no means a strong or even fair player.

I'm surprised you haven't interjected chess into this discussion more. I remember following the first Kasparov vs. Karpov match over 20 years ago and was shocked at the toll that marathon match took on both guys, mentally, emotionally and physically. Just devastating.

And after all that, they called it off!
 
DarkArtist said:
BPG24,

I read in another thread you're a chess player. Decades go, I used to play a lot, but am by no means a strong or even fair player.

I'm surprised you haven't interjected chess into this discussion more. I remember following the first Kasparov vs. Karpov match over 20 years ago and was shocked at the toll that marathon match took on both guys, mentally, emotionally and physically. Just devastating.

And after all that, they called it off!
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I don't know what top level chess is like. I am about a 1700 on chessmaster, nowhere near top level play. I really like chess, haven't played in a long time mainly due to no one i know plays.

Most people wouldn't consider it a sport anyway. But then again alot of people don't think pool is either. :rolleyes:

You make good points though, and if you have links to watch those matches i would appreciate you sharing them with us.
 
BPG24 said:
Most people wouldn't consider it a sport anyway. But then again alot of people don't think pool is either. :rolleyes:
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Until recently, I wouldn't have considered chess or pool sports either. I would have called them games. But I've broadened my definition of sports to anything that is a "competition for the sake of competition". And that definition is by no means concrete either.

How does one classify those ball games the Mayans would play with the losing participants being sacrificed? Is that still a sport or is it something different when when you're playing for your life? What about the death matches between knife fighters in some parts of the Philippines that were once prevalent years ago?

If one sees sports as a broader classification, then maybe games and athletics are subdivisions depending on the amount of physical training and conditioning that goes into each. Somehow I think pool and golf would fall in that massive expanse of grey area between both.

I can remember once seeing the finals of a tiddly winks tournament between two eight year old girls on TV. It started as a slaughter with one girl destroying the other. The losing girl was bawling her eyes out, but kept playing on. Then the match took a dramatic turn and the losing girl was now crushing the girl that was winning and now the other girl was crying her eyes out. I wondered what parents would put their kids through this.

The WPC finals between Daryl Peach and Roberto Gomez had nothing on this match.
 
DarkArtist said:
Until recently, I wouldn't have considered chess or pool sports either. I would have called them games. But I've broadened my definition of sports to anything that is a "competition for the sake of competition". And that definition is by no means concrete either.

How does one classify those ball games the Mayans would play with the losing participants being sacrificed? Is that still a sport or is it something different when when you're playing for your life? What about the death matches between knife fighters in some parts of the Philippines that were once prevalent years ago?

If one sees sports as a broader classification, then maybe games and athletics are subdivisions depending on the amount of physical training and conditioning that goes into each. Somehow I think pool and golf would fall in that massive expanse of grey area between both.

I can remember once seeing the finals of a tiddly winks tournament between two eight year old girls on TV. It started as a slaughter with one girl destroying the other. The losing girl was bawling her eyes out, but kept playing on. Then the match took a dramatic turn and the losing girl was now crushing the girl that was winning and now the other girl was crying her eyes out. I wondered what parents would put their kids through this.

The WPC finals between Daryl Peach and Roberto Gomez had nothing on this match.
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I agree with what you are saying, but for some reason most people don't.

I don't think killing animals is a sport and some people do. It all depends on what guidelines each person uses to define what a sport is.

IMO athletic ability and mental skill must be present for something to be a sport. Both should have to be used at very high levels during competition.
 
The Purpose

I started this thread with the intentions of getting your responses to the question asked. I have to say most have good comments as to what sport they feel is the toughest and why. In my opinion what makes pool so tough is that there are alot of players that can beat you on any given day. There is also a big luck factor in the game. All it takes is your break to not be working that day and you've got a tough time winning regardless of how well you play. Many people mention golf and i agree that its extremely hard to master. However in golf I believe that the top 20 in the world have a bigger advantage of winning than in pool, over the rest of the field.
 
storke said:
I started this thread with the intentions of getting your responses to the question asked. I have to say most have good comments as to what sport they feel is the toughest and why. In my opinion what makes pool so tough is that there are alot of players that can beat you on any given day. There is also a big luck factor in the game. All it takes is your break to not be working that day and you've got a tough time winning regardless of how well you play. Many people mention golf and i agree that its extremely hard to master. However in golf I believe that the top 20 in the world have a bigger advantage of winning than in pool, over the rest of the field.
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In golf any of the top 500+ players can win unless Tiger is playing well. Then No one on earth has a chance. There are simply too many factors involved for only 20 to be favored.

Tiger's "B" game is the same as the other top players "A" game. It's really not fair to the rest of the world. Last years US Open is a great example, he played bad all week and finished 2nd. Was about his "C-" game.


If pool was played in longer sets, the cream would always rise to the top, that is the problem with short races of 9 ball. Whoever gets control first is supposed to win.
 
I agree

BPG24 said:
In golf any of the top 500+ players can win unless Tiger is playing well. Then No one on earth has a chance. There are simply too many factors involved for only 20 to be favored.

Tiger's "B" game is the same as the other top players "A" game. It's really not fair to the rest of the world. Last years US Open is a great example, he played bad all week and finished 2nd. Was about his "C-" game.


If pool was played in longer sets, the cream would always rise to the top, that is the problem with short races of 9 ball. Whoever gets control first is supposed to win.
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I will concede that the better player would most likely win with a longer race.
 
storke said:
I will concede that the better player would most likely win with a longer race.
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I think you guys are right.

It would be funny to see the 2008 US Open with all races to 20-30 minimum. It would take a month or two for a winner to emerge, heheh.
 
storke said:
I started this thread with the intentions of getting your responses to the question asked. I have to say most have good comments as to what sport they feel is the toughest and why. In my opinion what makes pool so tough is that there are alot of players that can beat you on any given day. There is also a big luck factor in the game. All it takes is your break to not be working that day and you've got a tough time winning regardless of how well you play. Many people mention golf and i agree that its extremely hard to master. However in golf I believe that the top 20 in the world have a bigger advantage of winning than in pool, over the rest of the field.
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On this we TOTALLY agree. It is probably tougher for the top tier of players in pool to win a tourney. It depends on the races. If it's race to 7 in 9 ball with winner breaks...the better player might only get to the table a couple of times and not even see a decent shot when they do. But, I don't think that makes pool a tougher game to master. Just means the better player doesn't always win when the competition plays great.

In golf someone who's ranked 600 something in the world (random number) can win a 4 day PGA tourney because of a hot putter for example, but they won't have 7 wins including a couple of major like Tiger does...Tiger like mentioned above really shouldn't be included. Not only can he adapt better to different courses and conditions, he is so freakin' mentally tough it's SICK! When another player hits a bad pitch or chip and has 25 feet left to make par they hope or try to they make it - Tiger knows he'll get that par. I know alot of people don't buy the whole "when Tiger's moving up the leader board others fold", but I've seen it time and time again. And take a look at what players do when paired with Tiger on a Sunday while in contention - the difference between their and Tiger's scoring average is laughable. but back to pool...

As far as being the toughest sport to master though is different than the toughest sport to compete in. I still contend you can shoot a perfect match in pool (like a 900 in bowling - done numerous times), but you can't do that in golf, ya just can't. You just have to play better than your opponent or all your opponents. In pool, you can not give them a chance to shoot...
 
Billiards is a game. It is a game of skill and not a sport. That is why they call it a game of 9 Ball, a game of 8 ball...

The only true sport is Motor Sports, as in car racing. Everything else is a game i.e. football game, baseball game, card game, etc.

Just ask any good ole boy. :D
 
TheBook said:
Billiards is a game. It is a game of skill and not a sport. That is why they call it a game of 9 Ball, a game of 8 ball...

The only true sport is Motor Sports, as in car racing. Everything else is a game i.e. football game, baseball game, card game, etc.

Just ask any good ole boy. :D
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That is interesting :D

I have heard people say before that Nascar drivers are the toughest athletes in the world. I do not agree with it, but I see their point. those guys are losing 10 pounds of water every time that they race. That is dangerous, but i guess thay get used to it.

Would be interesting to hear someones view on this subject that knows the sport well
 
storke said:
I ask this question because as I think of it I can't think of another sport with as many top competitors. Are there the same in other sports? Look at how many great pool players there are. The list seems to get bigger yearly. What are your opinions?
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You have to qualify your question. Firstly, which game? 9ball, 8ball, 14.1, 3c, snooker? If you mean 9ball, imo NO. The entry level for 9ball is easy which is why you will occasionally see teens giving a veteran pro a hard time. Because it is easy is why you see so many "good" players. 9ball is not a game that separates the men from the boys.
 
There's a film of NASCAR driver Jeff Gordon swapping seats with then F1 BMW Williams driver Juan Pablo Montoya. Gordon said he immediately felt the difference in fitness level required for an F1 driver over NASCAR.

Most top drivers of other disciplines are prepared for the acceleration and handling of Formula One cars, but they're completely shocked by the amount g-forces generated from the braking. It's sounds impossible, but on some courses F1 cars decelerate from 200mph to 50mph in a few hundred yards reaching as high as 5-6Gs.

I've heard of new drivers being unable to keep their heads up after running 20-30 laps on an F1 course because their neck muscles were shot from all the cornering Gs.

I've seen video of Fernando Alonzo and Giancarlo Fiscicella doing interval sprint training on a beach prior to the F1 season when they drove together on Renault.

Michael Schumacher is legendary for his off season fitness routine, probably reminiscent of how Jerry Rice trained during the off season.

If you've ever seen the driver photos before the start of an F1 race, they resemble the starting squad for a Big Ten wrestling team. They all have necks like bulls.

Yeah, the car does most of the work, but the amount of abuse a driver takes in all motorsports is often underestimated.

By the way, Gordon did pretty damn good in that Williams, so much so they wanted him.
 
TheBook said:
Billiards is a game. It is a game of skill and not a sport. That is why they call it a game of 9 Ball, a game of 8 ball...

The only true sport is Motor Sports, as in car racing. Everything else is a game i.e. football game, baseball game, card game, etc.

Just ask any good ole boy. :D
Click to expand...

I am a good ole boy. I live 10 minutes from Atlanta Motor Speedway. Love the whole racing thing.

BUT, I think it's time we all came down to earth with a solid dose of reality.

There really are only two professional sports out there that are good, honest and fair sports.

WRESTLING and ROLLER DERBY!!! Every thing else is rigged! :D
 
DarkArtist said:
How does one classify those ball games the Mayans would play with the losing participants being sacrificed? Is that still a sport or is it something different when when you're playing for your life? What about the death matches between knife fighters in some parts of the Philippines that were once prevalent years ago?
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I have seen the great ballcourt at Chichen Itza in the Yucatan.
You misunderstand the Mayan culture. Human sacrafice wasn't always a part of the game (Pok-Ta-Pok) but when it was, it was the winners that were sacraficed to the Gods. They competed for this high honor of being sacrificed. They sacrificed the winners, not the losers. Different culture than yours or mine.

Eddie
 
eddieindetroit said:
I have seen the great ballcourt at Chichen Itza in the Yucatan.
You misunderstand the Mayan culture. Human sacrafice wasn't always a part of the game (Pok-Ta-Pok) but when it was, it was the winners that were sacraficed to the Gods. They competed for this high honor of being sacrificed. They sacrificed the winners, not the losers. Different culture than yours or mine.

Eddie
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That is just a urban legend made up by the sore losers.
 
undisputed

I believe you judge a sport in terms of difficulty by the best player in their sport. If the best player in a sport ,such as tennis,golf,pool,or whatever stands alone at the top then that sport is very difficult,reason being that no one has come close to the best in that sport. I believe Woods is the player that stands alone in golf,farther ahead of any other player in another sport. Then to me I would have to say golf is the hardest sport to master.
 
wincardona said:
I believe Woods is the player that stands alone in golf,farther ahead of any other player in another sport. Then to me I would have to say golf is the hardest sport to master.
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Billy, have you changed your mind then about what you said about Efren in your Accu-Stats commentary during his performance at the 2006 DCC?
 
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