Is Elbow Drop after Tip Contact a Bad Thing?
- Thread starter 336Robin
- Start date
I agree with this for sure.
If your elbow is gonna drop, the shoulder muscles that are responsible for the drop will already be recruited well before the moment of contact, even if you can't see it on video. The idea of delivering a perfect pendulum stroke and then beginning to engage the shoulder at the instant of contact strikes me as pretty naive. That would certainly create a jerky stroke, and this is not what is seen at all when a top player drops his elbow during the shot. Elbow droppers usually have glassy smooth strokes.
:thumbup2::thumbup2:
Two thumbs up for the 2nd. really good post of the day.
There is video with that Oyster Guy where he was comparing a young students stroke that was supposed to be a pendulum stroke.
The student took the cue back in a normal pendulum movement with the hand & butt butt raising up but he then fired the cue stick in a near straight line with a very descending blow into the cue ball.
It was not a pendulum stoke & not a piston or Piston J that I would advocate, but it was interesting to see & I would think interesting to study.
Anyway...
Another good post.
Best Wishes.
The member here, SmoothStroke, calls it 'clearing the cue... & the tip'.
Many 'players' do it when needed or a desired effect over a more normal stroke is wanted.
Best Wishes.
martind2112
Registered
Do you tend to grip the cue way in the back, maybe behind the wrap? Even with a fixed elbow and shoulder, this would tend to make the tip go up.
At impact, my reference point is that the rear arm should be perpendicular to the floor, not the cue. So the grip feels a little bit "forward".
Ron Swanson
Banned
Oh yes, absolutely at the back. Few british players play any different and see the wrap as being pointless. It gets in the way...
I do like a nice leather wrap though. I only use a wrap on my break cue the rest are wrapless and I'm thinking about getting a leather wrap put on a cue all the way to the bumper.
A computer tracing of the tip for a full pendulum stroke indicates that the tip travels through a series of arcs much like a sine wave with a long wavelength just as Bob Jewitt's chart indicates. It does not show an area of straight line travel.
In a pendulum the bottoming out at the change of direction is a single point & not a series of points that would form a straight line AND the pivot point is stationary & not moving in a lateral direction near the bottom of the arc.
So... the 'geometry' says contrary to what you believe.
If you have some new information that I & others are not aware of, please share it with everyone.
Best Wishes.
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That series of arcs you keep complaining about is actually .016 inch. A table is leveled to .005 inch. That is pretty darn level for a pool stroke. If you think your stroke is any more level than what you are complaining about, we would love to see it. I'm betting that your piston stroke is no wheres near that level.
You're arguing with yourself, as usual. I said the travel is within +/- 1/32" of straight at the tip. The arc of my pendulum stroke at the back hand is only non-straight by a maximum of 1/8" over a 4" distance - the arc at the tip is proportionally smaller (about 1:4 in my case), hence 1/32" at the tip.
However, since 1/32" is the maximum variance at my tip I think I could have said +/- 1/64".
You apparently didn't read what I said before starting to argue with yourself. Stop disrupting threads with your contrary nonsense.
pj
chgo
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martind2112
Registered
I'm not a fan of that stance, but if it works and it does... My advice still stands, but holding the cue far back makes for a longer bridge.
Almost every super caliber player drop elbow at some shots(at least).
Ronnie, Earl and Immonen comes to mind first.
So it is quite normal when you put some speed and english to cueball.
I don't know do I still drop my elbow. I used to do it on power shots. I video myself regularly but I don't really care if it drops or not. It does not matter for me anything.
For sure it is not a bad thing because virtually every pro does it.
Ronnie, Earl and Immonen comes to mind first.
So it is quite normal when you put some speed and english to cueball.
I don't know do I still drop my elbow. I used to do it on power shots. I video myself regularly but I don't really care if it drops or not. It does not matter for me anything.
For sure it is not a bad thing because virtually every pro does it.
Checked last video from playing against ghost. Elbow drop only when i really needed power speed.
I also noticed my elbow drop is off to right nowadays. It did not be that way years ago when i did practice my fundamentals quite often. Now I´ve don´t really practice fundamentals anymore.
Maybe I Have to start put some focus to fix that flaw. :thumbup:
Thx for useful thread guys
I also noticed my elbow drop is off to right nowadays. It did not be that way years ago when i did practice my fundamentals quite often. Now I´ve don´t really practice fundamentals anymore.
Maybe I Have to start put some focus to fix that flaw. :thumbup:
Thx for useful thread guys
The tip variance is dependent on the bridge length.
As I said, an OP in the instructors' forum has basically gone to using a piston stroke for follow over his normal 'pendulum' stroke.
There is a reason, the tip's variance, though small, IS significant in a game where 1 millimeter can be very significant on the CB or OB.
I'm not 'disrupting' threads just because I am NOT always in total agreement with you & what you imply.
Best Wishes.
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As was stated in the thread you mentioned, the OP in that thread was not utilizing the pendulum stroke correctly. So, why use him for an example of why the pendulum stroke isn't a sufficient stroke to use? Used properly, there is no tip variance at all when using the pendulum stroke. The tip returns exactly where it started from. And, bridge length has nothing to do with tip variance when using the pendulum stroke. What does matter is how far from the cb the tip is at address.
I don't want to & will not get into an argument with you, but your statements are unqualified.
What you say WOULD be true... IF... the set up was perfect AND the execution was done PERFECTLY. There is only one point in a pendulum where the bottom is not moving in either a descending or ascending arc. Finding that one point is extremely difficult for a human being to physically do. Any variation from perfect will result in the tip arcing upward or downward at & during contact.
Human beings are not perfect & hardly ever perform physical operations perfectly.
The fact is that the tip is NOT moving in a straight line & hence the 'opportunity' or chance is there for tip variances, IF... ALL is not PERFECT, the set up & the 'swing'.
If the cue & tip are moving in a straight line, that 'opportunity' or chance for those variances are NOT there & there is no need for a PERFECT set up.
As I said earlier, I am just putting out food for thought for anyone interested that might be making some decision as to what direction they might want to go.
Everyone should be responsible for their own stroke & game... but they can not really be so if they continually ONLYhear from one 'pulpit'.
Best Wishes to ALL.
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My statements are very qualified. And you are well aware of it, which is why you don't want to get into an argument about it again. All one has to do to see the evidence is go to this thread (which you just posted in) http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=331440
As I stated previously, there are always two sides to a coin. However, if you are going to present another side, then you owe it to the readers to at least try and be factual in your statements, and not just choose the opposite side of what most instructors teach just because you have a beef with most instructors.