Is gambling required at the higher skill levels?

maha said:
as far as pro money effrin is the only one that has made over 2 million in his career.

a postman may make that much and get to retire with a pension and medical benefits. and doesnt have massive expenses in fees and traveling.

and only a few made a million. and i am talking their whole life in pro tournaments.

but pool is growing, due to league play and that is the reason for its growth, and its on smaller tables.
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Efren has won more than 2M I’d bet.

I know one top player, he’s won around 6M tourneys & action over the decades. That’s not net to him as he’s been staked and lost as well. That’s just gross “$ won” playing pool. The NNN number isn’t near as nice.

I’ve lost about what I’ve won in action over the long haul. When I needed $-I locked it up and was ahead $. As I didn’t have that pressure I could & did make worse games just for the “action”. Being a locksmith isn’t fun at the end of the day. It’s a petty state of being and not for me.

Fatboy
 
gregcantrall said:
Has anyone mentioned that playing for stakes is not gambling?
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Some of my best lessons were free.
In the late '80s, at the 211 in Seattle. I would play Portland Slim last pocket 8 ball for $5. He might have been in his 80s. He would always jump out 4 or 5 games. Then as he tired I could roll it back to zero and pay the table time. Ah the knowledge he had. Told me of racking for Mosconi when Willie was so drunk he had to grab the rails to navigate around the table.
 
SEB said:
Everything i said was straight facts bud. Bury your head in the sand and pretend all you want to see a bleak future that isn’t there.

You’re like the hockey fan bitching about the growth of the sport being held back by fighting not realizing it’s doing just fine.

People respect hockey players for the fights.

People respect pool for the gamble.

“Mom and Dad” don’t matter here. Millions of people play the game each day. That aint gonna change.
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lol... you clearly have no clue of the world beyond you're front door.

Thank you for the morning laugh. Appreciated
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Some people respect the gamble. Some people, like me, avoid letting people know how into pool we are because of the negative assumptions make about pool players.
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This is the harsh reality (unless you live in SEB's neighbourhood apparently). I never bother chatting pool when I meet people for the first time. Unless they break the ice or are players and know the seedy underbelly is all but gone in my neck of the woods.

I wouldn't say it's so much the "gambling" history of the game that turns "joe blow" off. More so the 'type' of people that supposedly were drawn into smoked filled pool rooms. For the most part (based on my younger years), that perception is accurate. At least it was...

Rooms in my region are far cleaner establishments then they used to be. Still not very hard to find that less than desirable element in them if you look though.
 
I played alot of 6 red snooker for $5/ game and only played my regular customers that worked lol. I had 5-6 guys that couldn't wait to get to the poolhall to play me as I overspotted them,treated them with respect and made a point of complimenting them on shots. They kept me in pocket money for several years. The biggest loss I had was $300 one day trying to do some baiting on some other fish that backfired on me and that taught me a lesson to stick with what was working for me.
 
The_JV said:
This is the harsh reality (unless you live in SEB's neighbourhood apparently). I never bother chatting pool when I meet people for the first time. Unless they break the ice or are players and know the seedy underbelly is all but gone in my neck of the woods.

I wouldn't say it's so much the "gambling" history of the game that turns "joe blow" off. More so the 'type' of people that supposedly were drawn into smoked filled pool rooms. For the most part (based on my younger years), that perception is accurate. At least it was...

Rooms in my region are far cleaner establishments then they used to be. Still not very hard to find that less than desirable element in them if you look though.
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I wonder how much of pool's reputation is because people who don't fit the negative stereotype don't tell people they play?
 
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tomatoshooter said:
I wonder how much of pool's reputation is because people who don't fit the negative stereotype don't tell people they play?
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Nah, stereotypes are strong. The amazing thing about applying a label to someone is that after you do, you interact with the label and no longer the person...then confirmation bias keeps the label in place. After a rather short time, you forget you were the one to apply the label in the first place. Sucks to be reduced to a label, but when you tell people you play pool, or even worse, that you gamble, that's exactly what happens.

Invariably, the less people know about pool and gambling, the more 'worried' they are about me.
 
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tomatoshooter said:
I wonder how much of pool's reputation is because people who don't fit the negative stereotype don't tell people they play?
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chicken vs egg...

Does anyone that does anything as a hobby just announce it to random encounters as they go about their day..?...lol. If they did it may not help anything at all :)

I don't hide the fact that I play a game called pool. Volunteering it is based on audience. Meeting a gf's parents for the first time is a situation where I wouldn't have. Talking during break time I certainly would.
 
Cuedup said:
I love pool and play daily. As my skill level increased I've noticed a reoccurring theme. Whenever I match up with higher skilled players it always ends up with a proffer to gamble. Always.

I'll gamble sometimes. When I do I usually end up ahead, unless it's in doubles but that's another thread altogether, but gambling isn't why I'm there. Pool is why I'm there. I'll play rack after rack alone or practicing different aspects of the game by myself. I spend a lot of time coaching and playing with lower skill players and never have a problem finding someone to play with but inevitably whenever equally matched or higher skilled players come around it always ends up with a proffer to gamble.

I love to match up with equally skilled or higher skilled players. It makes my day. I love the competition and there is nothing I like better. However, within a few racks it inevitably turns into an offer to gamble and if the offer is declined there is no interest left.

Am I alone in this? Is it about the game or the gamble? Are the two inseparable? Does anyone want to match up for fun?
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I think gambling is required at the higher skills levels because,

In many games, there is an option to runout or play a lock up safety to win. Both are in the player at the tables capability but maybe the runout is a little bit more tough than the lock up safe so get ball in hand and runout from there.

Are you playing to win or playing to runout?

I play guys all the time for free even though I prefer gambling. and when I play for free I play a lot more reckless and take a lot more unnecessary risk. and maybe the non-gamblers don't take those risk. But oftentimes when I guy beats me for free and takes pride it in. especially a lesser player. I feel like I'm giving him lessons free of charge.

I think playing for money makes you try a little harder and I've always considered the guys who don't gamble just scared.
 
lfigueroa said:
It’s a funny thing but in my experience it’s always the guys that play under me that want to play for funsies, while the guys better than me always want to gamble.

Lou Figueroa
go figure
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Funny how that works huh. No shortage of nits out there. I'm all for guys not wanting to gamble, like one really excellent snooker player I know who rarely visits the poolhall without threatening a century break. He plays for honor through and through no matter who he plays. But then there's guys that love to 'gamble', but only with players they perceive they have an edge on and look to play for funsies with anyone that's likely to take their milk money.

Lou, it'd be interesting to see how many of these guys above you would become open to or even insist on playing for funsies if you leapfrog them and win a handful of sets in a row on em. For me, I know there's at least one guy that was dying to play me "for G's" as he boasted after seeing me messing about with friends in a social game, only to bail on me before our first set for a measly $100 even started after seeing me warmup for real for 5min. I had to talk him down to just playing for $100 to start too, guy was that sure of the free lunch. Hasn't so much as made eye contact with me since. But what can you do, nits gonna nit.
 
I
lfigueroa said:
It’s a funny thing but in my experience it’s always the guys that play under me that want to play for funsies, while the guys better than me always want to gamble.

Lou Figueroa
go figure
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That's usually been the case everywhere. I grew up playing snooker and the funsy guys footed the table time so it was free practice. The better players seemed to gamble between themselves for the most part and we got to watch some good sessions. Pool wasn't much of a thing at the time and when it finally got going with some tour stops the action came with it.
 
Texas3cushion said:
I think gambling is required at the higher skills levels because,

In many games, there is an option to runout or play a lock up safety to win. Both are in the player at the tables capability but maybe the runout is a little bit more tough than the lock up safe so get ball in hand and runout from there.

Are you playing to win or playing to runout?

I play guys all the time for free even though I prefer gambling. and when I play for free I play a lot more reckless and take a lot more unnecessary risk. and maybe the non-gamblers don't take those risk. But oftentimes when I guy beats me for free and takes pride it in. especially a lesser player. I feel like I'm giving him lessons free of charge.

I think playing for money makes you try a little harder and I've always considered the guys who don't gamble just scared.
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I'll try you sum @Texas3cushion. I may not like it, but I'll give it a try.
 
WobblyStroke said:
Funny how that works huh. No shortage of nits out there. I'm all for guys not wanting to gamble, like one really excellent snooker player I know who rarely visits the poolhall without threatening a century break. He plays for honor through and through no matter who he plays. But then there's guys that love to 'gamble', but only with players they perceive they have an edge on and look to play for funsies with anyone that's likely to take their milk money.

Lou, it'd be interesting to see how many of these guys above you would become open to or even insist on playing for funsies if you leapfrog them and win a handful of sets in a row on em. For me, I know there's at least one guy that was dying to play me "for G's" as he boasted after seeing me messing about with friends in a social game, only to bail on me before our first set for a measly $100 even started after seeing me warmup for real for 5min. I had to talk him down to just playing for $100 to start too, guy was that sure of the free lunch. Hasn't so much as made eye contact with me since. But what can you do, nits gonna nit.
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There are just a couple of guys I play for free.

One is a good friend, the other is a younger guy trying to learn. Funny thing about the younger guy: we occasionally play 1pocket and he’ll ask questions and I try and give him pointers. Good kid. Then one day he see’s I was playing $50 9ball sets with another guy. I’m not generally known as a 9ball player and, truth be told, I don’t carry a break or jump cue. So the kid says, “I want to play you a race to 15 9ball set for $50.” I could appreciate his moxy but told him, “You don’t want to do that.” But he insists and I comply and I win. But he’s happy he got to whatever it was he got to against me.

That’s pretty rare nowadays.

So about leapfrogging better players: I think most of those guys are smart enough to ask for a spot if that happened. Generally speaking, the lesser players don’t really want to gamble at all and don’t even ask for a spot. I can only think of one guy that was willing to ask for 10-7 and play some cheap.

Lou Figueroa
 
George the Greek said:
I

That's usually been the case everywhere. I grew up playing snooker and the funsy guys footed the table time so it was free practice. The better players seemed to gamble between themselves for the most part and we got to watch some good sessions. Pool wasn't much of a thing at the time and when it finally got going with some tour stops the action came with it.
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When I started out, and even later moving to St Louis and having to learn how to play 1pocket, you *had* to gamble.

Whatever the bet was you worked your way up the ladder and spots were constantly adjusted — but you always had action.

Lou Figueroa
 
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