Is Indyq.com for real?

[JB Cases]

The only reason you would be so "over the top" in defending such an ass of a human being is for monetary reasons. It is simply because you have to much to loose if (and when)Roys business finally takes a shit. You show your cards when you come on time and time and time again with the dumb reasons why we should ignore his bad behavior. It almost seems that you have these ridiculously long winded rants ready to copy and paste whenever the situation arise. This is how it goes every time.
1 Roy treats someone bad.
2 That someone comes on to let everyone know not to deal with this lunatic.
3. JB comes on because he is worried Roy has messed up again and is going to in turn hurt him financially. At which point he will say anything to defend his business partner.

Less is more JB. Its to much. Please dial it down. We understand.
And by the way I have been looking for a new 4X8 and you make some awesome stuff but because of these asinine showings by you in defense of your "friend" I can't bring myself to buy one from you. I want to I just can't. The longer you keep this up the longer it will be before I ever even think to buy anything from you. Jmo

You think I am worried about Roy's business? You see it's the fact that you think I am so insincere as to be defending my friend for that reason. AS IF me doing this on this forum is going to help Roy's business.

Obviously the best thing for me to do is to leave it alone so that folks like you will think better of me and give me your money.

So you think that by me coming on here and stating my opinion that I value Roy's business over the sales I make through AZB???

This has NOTHING to do with business. It has to do with my friend who is not 100% right but who is actually a very good person at the core. He has some kind of neurological thing like turrets that causes him to lash out irrationally even when he is technically "right".

Sorry it bothers you that I don't like to see my friend piled on in the manner that so many of you people do it. Of course he handled it badly but as I said much worse happens every day on this forum and neither you nor anyone else stands up to condemn that behavior.

As I said though regardless of what is said about him Roy manages to sell plenty of cues and cases so he can't be doing everything bad. There are thousands of satisfied and happy customers and repeat customers who deal with Roy year after year.

So if you don't want to buy from me because I defend my friend then that is your choice. If you were my friend and you had some kind of issue that made you act rude to people when I know you are a good person then I would jump in and defend you as well.

 

[tommyceilings]

I'm the last person to kid myself or BS others.

This reminds me of a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry is in a private golf club dressing room, and walks up to this Doctor who is getting dressed and Larry says, Doc, will you look at this thing on my back, The Doc says he doesn't have the time then, but make an appointment and he can get right in at his office.

Larry says it will just take a second, and keeps asking. The Doc finally said to Larry "What do you do?" Larry says "I'm a writer" the Doctor says "Next time your busy I'll come up to you and ask you to write me some shit for free"

Asking for a value or even ballpark value for a stick on the phone is just crazy, even with emailed pictures. It amazes me that you would even fire an email to me insinuating that I would try to BS anyone. You want a price on a cue, pony up the fee.







QUOTE=Ken_4fun;4215607]Tommy -

The guy was just wanting a ball park estimate of value...easy to do and most dealers or folks would do it for free (and accurate).

He could have said this is just an estimate, but to be accurate I would have to see it in person.

Roy was just being Roy.

Don't kid yourself and don't BS others.

Ken[/QUOTE]

 

[tommyceilings]

So you want to disagree with me and then say I'm right?

Plenty of people on here will give you an honest ballpark value of your cue for no charge, later on you put However to get an accurate value you would need to get it into someone's hands.

That's what I said. No one can tell you what a cue is worth over the internet. How would you feel giving someone a ballpark value of $5000 only to find it doesn't roll straight, or the points don't quite match up, it's not the same type of cue they thought it was, it has a ding or chip that pictures can't show. Any number of things.

Tommy, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that, there are easily 10 or 20 guys on these forums that are extremely knowledgeable when it comes to the value of collectible cues. They would be happy to give you an honest ballpark value of your cue for no charge at all, just post some pictures and ask. Many of them have already commented on this thread. However to get the most accurate value you would need to get it in someones hands to inspect it and they should be compensated for their time and expertise. Just my opinion but AZ has some very great and knowledgeable people and it can provide a wealth of information.

 

[cuesblues]

This reminds me of a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry is in a private golf club dressing room, and walks up to this Doctor who is getting dressed and Larry says, Doc, will you look at this thing on my back, The Doc says he doesn't have the time then, but make an appointment and he can get right in at his office.

Larry says it will just take a second, and keeps asking. The Doc finally said to Larry "What do you do?" Larry says "I'm a writer" the Doctor says "Next time your busy I'll come up to you and ask you to write me some shit for free"

That was hilarious
Then when Larry finally finds a doctor that will give him free advice at the hospital, the guy turns out to be an escapee from the 6th Floor metal ward, posing as a doctor.
As the men in white suits are hauling him off he yells to Larry "stay out of the sun"

 

[JB Cases]

John, I read the OP and unless Michael is a complete fraud the actions (and words) of Roy are indefensible. You don't have to be a therapist to read and understand that. To talk to someone that way is more than just having a "bad day." It's about being an ASS! To defend someone like that is to contribute to their bad behavior. Yes we are friends and will continue to be, but right is right and wrong is wrong!

I know you like to bet.

Want to make a little sweat bet?

I bet you $100 that I can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that neurological conditions exist which cause otherwise nice people to behave badly and irrationally.

I will make the bet even sweeter.

I will bet a $175 case against four copies of Pool Wars. If I win then I will donate those four copies to four friends who could use a little insight into the pool world you and I love.

I am not excusing Roy's behavior only saying that I believe that there is an underlying reason for it that I don't think Roy can control. I could be wrong but after knowing him for so long I honestly think he has faulty wiring.

Things that you and I blow off and say, win some lose some, make him go off like a rocket. That's not normal behavior and I know Roy thinks about it.

The fact is though that as much as I used to believe that between stimulus and actions lies choice, the more I read about what we are learning about how the brain works the more I am convinced that we get wired to respond in certain ways and really don't have hardly any free will about it without tremendous effort. You might be thinking ah, that's all BS an asshole is an asshole and I used to be right there with you.

Now though I am beginning to have a little more sympathy for the people who just can't seem to control themselves and lot more respect for the people who can.

I feel like there is a big difference between a person who has outbursts like this and a person who makes a deliberate and calculated move to piss someone off. The latter is a true asshole, the former is an unfortunate one in my opinion.

I, unfortunately, am a deliberate one. ;-)

 

[JB Cases]

So you want to disagree with me and then say I'm right?

Plenty of people on here will give you an honest ballpark value of your cue for no charge, later on you put However to get an accurate value you would need to get it into someone's hands.

That's what I said. No one can tell you what a cue is worth over the internet. How would you feel giving someone a ballpark value of $5000 only to find it doesn't roll straight, or the points don't quite match up, it's not the same type of cue they thought it was, it has a ding or chip that pictures can't show. Any number of things.

Agreed. When you ask a guy for a ballpark price and then ask him if he wants to buy it then you are setting up a conflict of interest right there.

Roy has several cues on his wall that he bought sight unseen based on people's "word" that turned out to be either fraudulent or significantly not as described to the point of being unsellable.

I think he had every right to be pissed that the guy did not say from the outset that he wouldn't ship the cue for inspection before purchase. Even though he was trying to sell it and presumably would have had to ship it at some point, after getting the money.

I think Roy should have kept his feelings to himself though and preserved the contact even if he felt his time was wasted.

And for those of you who say oh it's just a few emails, Roy is almost paralyzed on one side and types with one finger. With that one finger he manages to type coherently and with proper grammar most of the time which is more than I can say for a lot of the emails I get from presumably able-bodied folks which I have to run through a hieroglyphics decoder to translate. Each email that Roy sends out is 3-4x the effort of a normal person. Which is to say he is REALLY pissed when he sends a pissy response.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

what would have been so hard about saying this, for instance:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear OP;

Thank you for your inquiry.

I have had and sold quite a few Schick cues and based upon your photos and description, I would estimate the retail value at approx. $xxxxx. This number assumes the condition to be excellent.

However, in order to do an official appraisal it would require that I have the cue in my possession so that I may thoroughly examine it.

If you want me to buy it, I may be interested, however, once again, I would need the cue in hand to evaluate it. I would be offering less than retail to buy it and that price range would be approx. $xxxxx to xxxxx depending on my findings.

Another option (not sure if Roy offers this service) would be for you to send me the cue to sell for you on consignment. We would have to set a realistic expectation of what price you would need for the cue to make it worthwhile for both of us. Based on the photos and assuming everything is straight and in overall very nice condition, I think we can figure the consignment number to be $xxxxx. Anything above that would be my commission.

I have a long history of successful sales of Schick cues and I am confident that your cue would be no exception either selling it to me outright, allowing me to sell if for you on consignment, or to simply provide you with an appraisal of it's value. If you just want the cue appraised, the fee is $xxxx and that includes insured shipping back to you.

Thank you for your consideration and please let me know if I can be of further help.

Sincerely,
Roy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

wouldn't that have been nicer?

best,
brian kc

 

[JB Cases]

There is an easier and cheaper way to find out what your cue is worth. Put it on Ebay with no reserve. Then you can keep it up for as long as you want and pull the auction before it ends, frustrating all the bidders but satisfying your curiosity. Who knows, you might have a $55,000 cue there

And you don't need to ask any dealers for their conflict-of-interest opinion either. The market will tell you right away the value of what you have.

 

[classiccues]

BS, he used to come almost every year. He was the reason, deal with it. Oh thats right, your buddy. Thats to bad.

He knew it was mine, because if you're going to tell me that he only checks out SW cues on his own site, I am going to say you're a liar. Even I go to all other related sites, except I don't steal anyone elses work.

All the gif's I used to use, were from FREEWARE sites, OR sites where you registered to have access to the graphic. Funny I don't offer that service, SO what's that make Roy... a THIEF. BUT since you found it ok to send photos I had taken for an article you wrote for publication, I would not expect anything less from you. Birds of a feather...

Stop the Roys outsells non-sense. For me its a hobby, so yes, I would expect him to sell more stuff, duh. Thats like comparing you and Cyrex for case output. Get real, not real stupid.

Dude, your site is hideous, do not even go there with website design. Maybe if you sent that 10 year old programmer to school once in a while, your site would look like a blob of blackscreen with some cheezy "leather" image.

JV

Hearsay. Roy hasn't even BEEN to the SBE for years and the last time he was in 2010 he didn't even have any cues with him.

As for your accusation of "stealing" internet graphics stop acting like taking an image with the words South West with a little glow is a big deal. Roy had no idea it was yours and just found a simple little graphic with those words and used it.

You know kind of like you did here http://web.archive.org/web/20010124020700/http://classiccues.com/

And here http://web.archive.org/web/20040825161519/http://www.classiccues.com/

Or did you CREATE that 1997era spinning "welcome" gif? No, you most certainly found it somewhere and took it for your site. You have this idea that Roy deliberately went to your site and deliberately took this image from your site

When that is completely not how it happened and all it would have taken was a phone call to Roy to let him know and it would have been gone in 2 minutes. And IN FACT once I found out FROM YOU that you had been harboring resentment over this for YEARS I called Roy and it was gone in 2 minutes. Roy would never deliberately take any images from you or any other dealer.

You have a lot of nerve to call Roy a thief when your site was heavily populated with images you took from the "internet" like just about every person on the internet has done from time to time.

But you would rather act like Roy kicked your puppy and strangled your cat rather than pick up the phone and give a person a chance to take care of an issue.

I admit Roy can be an asshole. But he isn't stupid and isn't a thief.

But if you want to act like Roy traumatized you for life then be my guest. While you are complaining about the innocent use of a Cold War-era glow effect font image Roy is selling and expanding his site even more.

One only has to use the internet archive to compare your website with Roy's site to see which of you has been and is more professional. Roy sells more in a week than you do in months I speculate. I'd bet on it if we could have taken any random week and video taped both of you at work. Well, only one of you would have actually been "at work" in the billiard industry, you would have been dabbling in your hobby.

 

[classiccues]

Really? Anything wrong with saying retail is xxxxx if you find can find a buyer, but I'll buy it for xxxxx as a dealer?

I didn't think so, I do it all the time.

JV

There is an easier and cheaper way to find out what your cue is worth. Put it on Ebay with no reserve. Then you can keep it up for as long as you want and pull the auction before it ends, frustrating all the bidders but satisfying your curiosity. Who knows, you might have a $55,000 cue there

And you don't need to ask any dealers for their conflict-of-interest opinion either. The market will tell you right away the value of what you have.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

I know you like to bet.

Want to make a little sweat bet?

I bet you $100 that I can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that neurological conditions exist which cause otherwise nice people to behave badly and irrationally.

I will make the bet even sweeter.

I will bet a $175 case against four copies of Pool Wars. If I win then I will donate those four copies to four friends who could use a little insight into the pool world you and I love.

I am not excusing Roy's behavior only saying that I believe that there is an underlying reason for it that I don't think Roy can control. I could be wrong but after knowing him for so long I honestly think he has faulty wiring.

Things that you and I blow off and say, win some lose some, make him go off like a rocket. That's not normal behavior and I know Roy thinks about it.

The fact is though that as much as I used to believe that between stimulus and actions lies choice, the more I read about what we are learning about how the brain works the more I am convinced that we get wired to respond in certain ways and really don't have hardly any free will about it without tremendous effort. You might be thinking ah, that's all BS an asshole is an asshole and I used to be right there with you.

Now though I am beginning to have a little more sympathy for the people who just can't seem to control themselves and lot more respect for the people who can.

I feel like there is a big difference between a person who has outbursts like this and a person who makes a deliberate and calculated move to piss someone off. The latter is a true asshole, the former is an unfortunate one in my opinion.

I, unfortunately, am a deliberate one. ;-)

Hmmm, just about every comment in JB's posting about Roy's neurological condition could be applied to JB. Instead of having a sweat bet on Roy's neurological condition, maybe we can have a sweat bet on JB's neurological condition?

 

[Spimp13]

Hmmm, just about every comment in JB's posting about Roy's neurological condition could be applied to JB. Instead of having a sweat bet on Roy's neurological condition, maybe we can have a sweat bet on JB's neurological condition?

Hmm...Finkle is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkle!

 

[JB Cases]

Hmmm, just about every comment in JB's posting about Roy's neurological condition could be applied to JB. Instead of having a sweat bet on Roy's neurological condition, maybe we can have a sweat bet on JB's neurological condition?

That's possible. I have thought about it more and more. Why am I compelled to battle trolls when I know better? Why do I spend valuable time even talking to insignificant people like you when I know it's completely useless?

The more I read the more it seems as if I am somehow wired to be this way. The good news is that it can be mitigated sometimes with drugs, sometimes with meditation, sometimes by brute force of willpower, sometimes with therapy and sometimes it takes tragedy or trauma to cause a brain change.

Sometimes it's not just how the synapses are wired but instead a medical condition that changes people's moods and causes them to behave irrationally and outside the "norm".

The more science learns about our neurology and biology the more it becomes clear that we are more and more controlled by chemicals our body produces or doesn't produce enough of and how well our brains have formed.

Now the easiest thing in the world is to simply categorize a person as just an asshole and leave it at that. It's much harder to look at them as a human being that MIGHT have some kind of condition that they can't control. For example I would love to think of you as just another troll but given your obsession with me I actually do have some sympathy that you probably also have some sort of chemical imbalance in your brain.

Hope not but it's possible and would explain your OCD-like fixation with me.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

That's possible. I have thought about it more and more. Why am I compelled to battle trolls when I know better? Why do I spend valuable time even talking to insignificant people like you when I know it's completely useless?

The more I read the more it seems as if I am somehow wired to be this way. The good news is that it can be mitigated sometimes with drugs, sometimes with meditation, sometimes by brute force of willpower, sometimes with therapy and sometimes it takes tragedy or trauma to cause a brain change.

Sometimes it's not just how the synapses are wired but instead a medical condition that changes people's moods and causes them to behave irrationally and outside the "norm".

The more science learns about our neurology and biology the more it becomes clear that we are more and more controlled by chemicals our body produces or doesn't produce enough of and how well our brains have formed.

Now the easiest thing in the world is to simply categorize a person as just an asshole and leave it at that. It's much harder to look at them as a human being that MIGHT have some kind of condition that they can't control.

This is real progress as it might be the first time that you've even tacitly admitted that YOU might have a mental problem.

We're all forum psychiatrists here trying to help you. Are you currently on drugs or meditation or therapy or doing anything to help improve your condition?

 

[JB Cases]

This is real progress as it might be the first time that you've even tacitly admitted that YOU might have a mental problem.

We're all forum psychiatrists here trying to help you. Are you currently on drugs or meditation or therapy or doing anything to help improve your condition?

I have never said I didn't have a mental problem I said you are unqualified to claim I have one. I don't take any drugs for any condition because I have not been diagnosed with any condition.

What you are is a troll. Whether that is because you have a chemical imbalance or because you are conditioned to act that way is unknown. I don't know if you can make the active choice to stop trolling me or not. I hope you can for your own sake because it's a sad to life to be obsessed with me.

 

[cuesblues]

This is real progress as it might be the first time that you've even tacitly admitted that YOU might have a mental problem.

If I could interject here, not that I really want to get involved, but John has "tacitly" admitted to having mental problems several times.
Real progress is John agreeing to spend less time on AZ :smile: more time building cases similar to Jack Justis cases, personally signed, and at a slightly reduced price.

 

[JMW]

That's possible. I have thought about it more and more. Why am I compelled to battle trolls when I know better? Why do I spend valuable time even talking to insignificant people like you when I know it's completely useless?

I think you just like to debate and there is nothing wrong with that. It is something that takes a great deal of knowledge and skill. Exercise it if you have it. It can be fun, informative and addictive.

But you need to give it up when the person you are debating can't think clearly or logically. And nothing good comes from a person with a closed mind. It just leads to frustration. You can't debate a person that just wants to attack and argue. Just walk away.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Everytime you mention IndyQ, Roy gets more free advertising.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

What you are is a troll. Whether that is because you have a chemical imbalance or because you are conditioned to act that way is unknown.

In your eyes, I may be a troll; however, it's indisputable that you are a forum bully. The evidence is shown below, in which you've engaged in a systematic campaign to trample over the lives of dozens of people, destroying their reputations and their businesses:

Originally Posted by JB Cases
I am not saying that I was right or wrong on any topic. But I have handled things very very badly in the past. I have met hate with hate, met verbal violence with more verbal aggression, taken personal slurs to heart and tried to dole out even nastier ones.

Mike banished me for six months for making what I thought was a fairly innocent comment about people obviously wanting to fight and fighting being allowed on AZB for the most part. Whether that lengthy ban was warranted for that comment or not I still did plenty of attacking in the past that warranted a lengthy ban.

I came to the conclusion that whether I am right or not when I go-off on someone then no one cares who was right. The topic is then lost and it becomes only name calling and insults. And I have to say that when the adrenaline gets going then it's addictive to want to get in the best zingers.

But it's not productive. At all. Maybe entertaining on some level but ultimately sad and hurtful. Believe it or not I am a peaceful person and I don't hold grudges. A few years ago I tried to eliminate the word hate from my vocabulary and not even use it casually as in I hate red pool cues. It's time to do that again.

I have been in this business for 25 years. I started selling cues as a teenager. I started making cue cases when I was 23 years old. I have been extremely lucky in my life to have been able to travel the world with this sport. I have tried to share those experiences where relevant on these forums. To that end I do think I have put up a lot of good content.

Unfortunately I spoiled a lot of it with the mean-spirited and nasty fights I have been in.

So for that I want to apologize.

------------------------------------------------------------

To the forum. I am sorry for subjecting you all to my tirades and rants when I felt I was only defending myself. I was often way out of line.

To Mike Howerton: You are one of my oldest friends in this business and I apologize for having been a huge headache to you.

Joe Van Buren: I am sorry that I did not respond professionally to your comments. Where I have been out of line and met your insults with more personal attacks I am truly sorry for that.

Jack Justis: No matter what I think about how you slighted me I had no grounds to wage an all-out campaign against you. We make leather bags not nuclear missiles. Again, I am very sorry about my actions towards you.

Monstermash (sorry don't know your name): I am sorry that I took personal offense at your actions and went on the offensive against you. You deserved a professional and courteous response to anything you said and did rather than a heated and emotional over the top one.

Snipershot: I have no idea what it is I that I did that made you threaten to kill me but I apologize for whatever I said to you that caused that reaction.

Craig Rittel: We have long resolved our differences but I still owe you a public apology for the level of argument that I took it to.

Michael Lalumiere: Although I unfortunately still harbor some major resentment against you I want to apologize for allowing myself to escalate our fights to unreasonable levels.

Eric Hu: I am sorry that I didn't just let your comments slide and took them personally. I should be tougher and not take your ribbing to heart.

Bobby Chamberlain: I apologize for going after you. You were only defending your friend and I wrapped you up in the general animosity I was feeling. I should have responded to your comments professionally and courteously.

Dave Wilson: Your job is tough and I apologize for making it tougher.

Ok, well I am sure I will remember more later or possibly those who feel I owe them an apology will let me know. In any case the bottom line is this. No matter what the topic is it can always be discussed and debated without personal insults. When those insults happen though they don't have to be met with even more insults.

I know that now. That doesn't mean that I won't ever want to go off on someone if they are being deliberately mean. Inside I want to but I understand that I need to keep it professional.

So again, to the forum, thank you for indulging and tolerating me and I do sincerely apologize for subjecting you to my bad side in the past. All I can really say is to use the only quote from Thomas Wayne that resonates with me at the core, "passion is a hard thing to conceal".

John Barton​

 

[JB Cases]

BS, he used to come almost every year. He was the reason, deal with it. Oh thats right, your buddy. Thats to bad.

He knew it was mine, because if you're going to tell me that he only checks out SW cues on his own site, I am going to say you're a liar. Even I go to all other related sites, except I don't steal anyone elses work.

All the gif's I used to use, were from FREEWARE sites, OR sites where you registered to have access to the graphic. Funny I don't offer that service, SO what's that make Roy... a THIEF. BUT since you found it ok to send photos I had taken for an article you wrote for publication, I would not expect anything less from you. Birds of a feather...

Stop the Roys outsells non-sense. For me its a hobby, so yes, I would expect him to sell more stuff, duh. Thats like comparing you and Cyrex for case output. Get real, not real stupid.

Dude, your site is hideous, do not even go there with website design. Maybe if you sent that 10 year old programmer to school once in a while, your site would look like a blob of blackscreen with some cheezy "leather" image.

JV

So you checked on the licenses for every gif on those "freeware" sites you claim to have gotten your images from? You saw the copyright agreements and know for a fact that all those images were on those sites as legitimately free for use?

Of course you didn't.

Roy didn't take your image from you. He found it on the net and grabbed it. When you found out it was there instead of calling him and asking him to take it down you acted like he stole the Mona Lisa and went into a state of depression over it that has still not subsided.

As for the pictures I submitted I told the publisher that I had collected them over many years and had no idea who they "belonged" to because there was no attribution ON THEM. I said he should make that disclaimer and he did not. It's all documented.

Regardless of that I submitted the work as an article on the history of Fellini cases and as such any pictures I find on the web that are relevant would probably be covered under fair use anyway. Again you act all hurt over an innocent use that brought no harm to anyone.

Yes my site sucks Joe, but it has more than 400 original cases on it and is in use every day by customers from around the world. It's informative and showcases other case makers with a deep appreciation for the art of case making. I keep it simple so that it's easy for us to update it. And it still looks much better than yours.

Regarding sales, well, if you want to act like an expert and knock other people for what you consider to be a lack of professionalism then perhaps you should be a bonafide professional in the industry you want to knock the pros in. You are by your own admission a hobbyist but in reality you aren't even that. You are what would be termed a flunky and hanger-on. You ride on Mark's coattails or whomever you can finagle your way in with and bandy your "opinions" around as if you are an expert.

So really, you criticizing Roy, is pretty much the pot calling the kettle black as the saying goes when it comes to displaying professionalism because you have no clue what it means to be or act like a professional.