Is it a Bad Idea to Open a Room?

[WhatRobEats]

The Room Owner discussion forum gets no action, ever. So I figured here would be a better place to ask. I've found some good investors and have a pretty large sum of 'investment' money myself. For the sake of the numbers lets say around 750k.

What I'm looking to do is lease/purchase a plot of land that I can convert into a driving range, and put up a building to serve as a pool room. I'd like to have 10 bar boxes, 5 9 footers, and 5 8 footers. I'd really like to do only soda's and beer and maybe have a small kitchen for bar food type stuff (but I am a great cook) so that might change depending on business needs.

There are 2 pool rooms in my metropolitan area. One draws a pretty decent crowd and would be about 30 minutes South of my proposed location. The other is on the opposite side of town and is near empty every time I go there. (I've been doing a lot of opposition research) So I go to these 2 places often.

Am I setting myself up for failure and risking losing everything by doing this? I know pool isn't in the best shape these days. All of us enthusiast still play and want to have nice places to do so but not so much with the general public. Do I have a better opportunity for success by including the driving range?

Sorry to ramble on like this I've been thinking of opening a room for about 2 years now just haven't had the balls to pull the trigger, yet.

ps. If mods want to move this over to Room discussion go ahead. Just thought I would get more attention over here.

 

[Chopdoc]

Bad idea?

Something like 70% of new businesses fail in the first two years.

The pool industry is in a big slump.


I would say if you wanted to do it you should have some serious business skills and have a great business plan as well as location selection.

There is a good chance it is a bad idea, but I would love to see anybody do it with success.

Investors? You'll have a lot to answer to I would think. Ultimately they are the ones who need to buy the idea and if they are astute you are going to have a serious job selling them on it in this economy.


.

 

[Philthepockets]

Yes, provided your main focus is not pool.
Do your research and find out what is successful in other towns and mind your demographics when choosing a location.

 

[WhatRobEats]

Bad idea?

Something like 70% of new businesses fail in the first two years.

The pool industry is in a big slump.


I would say if you wanted to do it you should have some serious business skills and have a great business plan as well as location selection.

There is a good chance it is a bad idea, but I would love to see anybody do it with success.

Investors? You'll have a lot to answer to I would think. Ultimately they are the ones who need to buy the idea and if they are astute you are going to have a serious job selling them on it in this economy.


.

Maybe investors was the wrong word for it and honestly I don't know that I would need them up front anyway. Just a backup plan for cash infusions if I need them.

My wife has an MBA and would run the business side of things. She's had experience running a few start-ups. 2 failed after she left and 1 is thriving.

In the process now of working with my wife to create a solid business plan that doesn't ONLY include revenue from table time. I know pool is in a major slump right now and that is where my nervousness sets in. I've waited a few years for any signs of a resurgence but I haven't seen much evidence of that yet.

Maybe I'm the one that has to make it thrive again in my region and not wait to ride to coat tails of someone who does.

 

[WhatRobEats]

Yes, provided your main focus is not pool.
Do your research and find out what is successful in other towns and mind your demographics when choosing a location.

Demographics is a higher to middle class sub-urban area. Personally I think the main draw would be the driving range. There isn't another driving range in this densely populated sub urban area besides the few golf courses around. Pool is my passion but I have to do something to get people to my establishment to begin with and for me I think that's a driving range.

 

[Spimp13]

If you need a business plan let me know, I am for hire and have a BA in Business Management. One class I took we put together a business plan for a guy who bought some land and was looking at options what to put in (we submitted one on a pool hall and dance club) so I have a very good idea on a lot that is involved with the whole process

 

[WhatRobEats]

If you need a business plan let me know, I am for hire and have a BA in Business Management. One class I took we put together a business plan for a guy who bought some land and was looking at options what to put in (we submitted one on a pool hall and dance club) so I have a very good idea on a lot that is involved with the whole process

Thanks I will certainly keep you in mind if my wife is too busy to create one. She's one up on you though has an MBA. But no experience with Pool halls so your experience may be useful to me.

 

[Push&Pool]

Please don't rush anything. I've personally seen pool tables removed from certain bars because the income was too low, and some places had to close because they didn't attract enough crowd, even though they had great tables. If you really want to do this, rather open a bar or a fast food on a good spot where you're guaranteed to have enough traffic, and place a table or two over there (bar boxes for start) in order to see how much attention they'll attract. If you have a good income, and you also see people playing all the time, then maybe you should consider buying more tables, including 9 footers. Just don't focus everything on pool in the beginning.

 

[Spimp13]

Thanks I will certainly keep you in mind if my wife is too busy to create one. She's one up on you though has an MBA. But no experience with Pool halls so your experience may be useful to me.

Ouch lol!

In all seriousness there are a bunch of factors to think about though. The very first thing I would ask myself before even starting to dig into this would be "Why do I want to do this? Is it to make money? Is it for the love of the game? Hobby/side job?" Another reason etc?

 

[WhatRobEats]

Ouch lol!

In all seriousness there are a bunch of factors to think about though. The very first thing I would ask myself before even starting to dig into this would be "Why do I want to do this? Is it to make money? Is it for the love of the game? Hobby/side job?" Another reason etc?

For me it's the love of the game. With the obvious side benefit of getting out of the rat race and being my own boss and making money. Also want to leave something for my kids.

Currently I work from home and could continue to do so from my proposed establishment if I chose to. I probably would for at least the first 6 months to a year. My job is very laid back and requires very little of my brainpower and undivided attention. Hence the reason I'm on AZB all day. LOL

 

[david(tx)]

The Room Owner discussion forum gets no action, ever. So I figured here would be a better place to ask. I've found some good investors and have a pretty large sum of 'investment' money myself. For the sake of the numbers lets say around 750k.

What I'm looking to do is lease/purchase a plot of land that I can convert into a driving range, and put up a building to serve as a pool room. I'd like to have 10 bar boxes, 5 9 footers, and 5 8 footers. I'd really like to do only soda's and beer and maybe have a small kitchen for bar food type stuff (but I am a great cook) so that might change depending on business needs.

There are 2 pool rooms in my metropolitan area. One draws a pretty decent crowd and would be about 30 minutes South of my proposed location. The other is on the opposite side of town and is near empty every time I go there. (I've been doing a lot of opposition research) So I go to these 2 places often.

Am I setting myself up for failure and risking losing everything by doing this? I know pool isn't in the best shape these days. All of us enthusiast still play and want to have nice places to do so but not so much with the general public. Do I have a better opportunity for success by including the driving range?

Sorry to ramble on like this I've been thinking of opening a room for about 2 years now just haven't had the balls to pull the trigger, yet.

ps. If mods want to move this over to Room discussion go ahead. Just thought I would get more attention over here.

There is a similar set up in a rural area east of Greenville , Tx . My brother enjoys golf and his grown sons do to . There is a full bar i think and 4 eight foot coin ops . I think the driving range and bar are the main draws but my brother and his sons shoot pool there sometimes.

I think bowling alleys and pool tables were a good marriage for many years . Throw in some video games so junior and little sister have something to do when Dad is hitting golf balls .Think it is overkill with 3 size tables . Good luck .

 

[WhatRobEats]

Please don't rush anything. I've personally seen pool tables removed from certain bars because the income was too low, and some places had to close because they didn't attract enough crowd, even though they had great tables. If you really want to do this, rather open a bar or a fast food on a good spot where you're guaranteed to have enough traffic, and place a table or two over there (bar boxes for start) in order to see how much attention they'll attract. If you have a good income, and you also see people playing all the time, then maybe you should consider buying more tables, including 9 footers. Just don't focus everything on pool in the beginning.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. As I've said before I know that pool is in a slump right now so that's why the main draw would be a driving range. The area I'm going to is about 10 minutes off the highway and 5 minutes down the road from nearly every retail outlet known to man.

I like your plan of starting off with only a few tables and seeing where it goes from there. Good suggestion.

There is a similar set up in a rural area east of Greenville , Tx . My brother enjoys golf and his grown sons do to . There is a full bar i think and 4 eight foot coin ops . I think the driving range and bar are the main draws but my brother and his sons shoot pool there sometimes.

I think bowling alleys and pool tables were a good marriage for many years . Throw in some video games so junior and little sister have something to do when Dad is hitting golf balls .Think it is overkill with 3 size tables . Good luck .

Yes, these are exactly the things I'm wanting to do. Minus the full bar. I could go that route but it's something I would rather not have to hassle with. The reasons for the 3 size tables is to be able to accommodate any shooting preference or league. But as posted just above I think now it's a better idea to start small on the tables and work my way up if the need arises.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'd suggest not bothering with 7s, 8s, and 9s, just do 7s as coin ops + 9s as hourly. The useful space difference in the room isn't that big a difference, and you'll slightly simplify your later maintenance on cloth/rails by just having the 2 sizes vs 3.

also it makes sense to put in other bar type entertainment stuff to help with draw. jukebox, darts, maybe foosball, etc. Pool is sort of in a slump, but at the same time with some good overall marketing you can get people in the door. The food might end up being the real ticket, as with the suburb group you are talking about its not the serious pool hall crowd. So you wan them to have a reason to hang around spending money, and a good menu helps.

 

[One Pocket John]

The Room Owner discussion forum gets no action, ever. So I figured here would be a better place to ask. I've found some good investors and have a pretty large sum of 'investment' money myself. For the sake of the numbers lets say around 750k.

What I'm looking to do is lease/purchase a plot of land that I can convert into a driving range, and put up a building to serve as a pool room. I'd like to have 10 bar boxes, 5 9 footers, and 5 8 footers. I'd really like to do only soda's and beer and maybe have a small kitchen for bar food type stuff (but I am a great cook) so that might change depending on business needs.

There are 2 pool rooms in my metropolitan area. One draws a pretty decent crowd and would be about 30 minutes South of my proposed location. The other is on the opposite side of town and is near empty every time I go there. (I've been doing a lot of opposition research) So I go to these 2 places often.

Am I setting myself up for failure and risking losing everything by doing this? I know pool isn't in the best shape these days. All of us enthusiast still play and want to have nice places to do so but not so much with the general public. Do I have a better opportunity for success by including the driving range?

Sorry to ramble on like this I've been thinking of opening a room for about 2 years now just haven't had the balls to pull the trigger, yet.

ps. If mods want to move this over to Room discussion go ahead. Just thought I would get more attention over here.

The combination of a driving range, pool hall with food and beverages is a good idea.

You wont make much money with table time. The money is in the food and beverages. As far as beverages go I would have a full bar and offer a pretty wide selection of fast foods. (ribeye sandwiches are really good - damn now I want one :smile

The driving range would be seasonal depending on where you live. So something has to takes its place as a revenue source.

You may want to add Darts to the list.

Also offer billiard, dart and golf supplies.

It could work, but dont put all you eggs in one basket. You have to be diversified.

Big screen television for sports, a juke box.

Offer free table time with the purchase of lunch 11am to 2pm.

Have pool tournaments, dart tournaments. Offer pool, dart and golf instruction.

Selling all of these wonderful offerings to the public would require a ton of advertising. In the end though it will be worth the investment.

Another thing, this could either make you or break you. Your choice of employees must be spot on. Good attitude, always smiling, always wanting to help the customer.

One other thing. I would contact TVMike to set up live streaming of your place all the time. You can live stream darts, pool and the driving range.

As far as tables go, ya gotta have at least 1- 5x10 some 4.5 x 9.0 tables and some bar boxes (coin operated - they can be unlocked for lunch time)

Sorry about the long post. Good Luck :smile:

John

 

[WhatRobEats]

Darts is a great idea that I didn't think about because I can't hit the broad side of a barn with one. However, I do know plenty of people that throw competitive darts.

Great advice John this is exactly the things I'm looking for. I want to know from players perspective what they want to see in their rooms.

 

[Push&Pool]

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. As I've said before I know that pool is in a slump right now so that's why the main draw would be a driving range. The area I'm going to is about 10 minutes off the highway and 5 minutes down the road from nearly every retail outlet known to man.

I like your plan of starting off with only a few tables and seeing where it goes from there. Good suggestion.



Yes, these are exactly the things I'm wanting to do. Minus the full bar. I could go that route but it's something I would rather not have to hassle with. The reasons for the 3 size tables is to be able to accommodate any shooting preference or league. But as posted just above I think now it's a better idea to start small on the tables and work my way up if the need arises.

I'm glad I helped, but I'm definitely not an expert in economy so I'd suggest you to ask further advice before deciding anything And yeah, you could always add things like darts and some other stuff, it would make the whole place more attractive and people could go there to play different games and have fun, not just for a drink.

And yeah, I almost forgot! Good music and television would be a great bonus. Also, if the pool thing strarts going well, low-fee tournaments for casual players and bangers would be a great idea :wink:

 

[336Robin]

Opening a Room

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. As I've said before I know that pool is in a slump right now so that's why the main draw would be a driving range. The area I'm going to is about 10 minutes off the highway and 5 minutes down the road from nearly every retail outlet known to man.

I like your plan of starting off with only a few tables and seeing where it goes from there. Good suggestion.



Yes, these are exactly the things I'm wanting to do. Minus the full bar. I could go that route but it's something I would rather not have to hassle with. The reasons for the 3 size tables is to be able to accommodate any shooting preference or league. But as posted just above I think now it's a better idea to start small on the tables and work my way up if the need arises.

WhatRobEats,

If you do decide to open this room, keep this in mind. Pool in the past has been a kind of thing where owners thought if you build it they will come. I think those days are behind us.

The milk industry has the Dairymans Association.....Got Milk?...to keep Americans ideas on Milk. We basically have no one. So you are getting ready to invest your life savings and spend enough money to produce you a viable income on something that is in deep trouble given the fact that new players arent being produced.

I would tell you this: 1 Incorporate and borrow the money under the name of the Corporation.....the bank will make you come up with a decent plan so you dont lose their money and some of yours.

2. Have a plan that is proven it works to create new players out of people who just dont know pool exists.

3. Drop me a line Im working on this.....

 

[bdorman]

When you own the business your total focus has to be on the parts of the business that make money; anything less and you lose the business.

("I'm not going back there! I needed another bucket of balls but it took forever because the owner was busy playing pool!" --- Of course, the reality is that it only took you 10 seconds to get to the counter, and the guy was angry because he'd been shanking balls all morning...but he's the customer...)

Focus on the driving range. Make it the best damn driving range in the state. After the driving range is a big success, get a couple of pool tables.

 

[WhatRobEats]

WhatRobEats,

If you do decide to open this room, keep this in mind. Pool in the past has been a kind of thing where owners thought if you build it they will come. I think those days are behind us.

The milk industry has the Dairymans Association.....Got Milk?...to keep Americans ideas on Milk. We basically have no one. So you are getting ready to invest your life savings and spend enough money to produce you a viable income on something that is in deep trouble given the fact that new players arent being produced.

I would tell you this: 1 Incorporate and borrow the money under the name of the Corporation.....the bank will make you come up with a decent plan so you dont lose their money and some of yours.

2. Have a plan that is proven it works to create new players out of people who just dont know pool exists.

3. Drop me a line Im working on this.....

1. Yep, LLC or it's not happening.

2. I'm working on a plan now. One of the things I want to do is since I have kids that will be soon entering high school is to get high school tournaments going. I think this will help promote and grow the sport I love. I plan to be and already am very active in my community. I have been working on these plans for about 2 years.

3. Line.

 

[TATE]

The answer is, yes, you are risking everything. You are betting it all on the hopes you can succeed. The dream of owning a business is far removed from the reality of operating one. You could work harder than you ever had before and still lose your shirt.

Just remember, starting a business is all about turning a profit. There is no good in not making money. Properly invested, your $750,000 could easily turn a profit of $50,000 to $75,000 a year without you having to lift a finger. On the other hand, you could lose it in a year or two in a failed start-up.

Almost 30 years ago I risked everything buying a business, a totally dumb move that was against all odds. Banks wouldn't touch it. I had a hard time even getting a bond or credit line. I still own it today and we have had a great many profitable years.