Is it the tip?

ArizonaPete

ArizonaPete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I put a Moori Medium tip on my cue about 4 months ago and really liked it. My draw seemed improved and I was able to get more english on the cb. Lately it appears I don't get as much action on the cb. My friend just bought a new Tiger cue with a Sniper tip. I took a few shots with it and I got really good draw and english action.
Now I wonder if my tip lost it's magic because it became more compacted on use (about an hour a day) or is it my stoke (although I got the action with the new Tiger cue)? I've roughed up the tip with sandpaper with no apparent change. Should I retip? Another possibility is that it could me my imagination.
I'd be happy to hear from anyone who may have any thoughts on this subject.
 
I would probably say it is the tip. I find that after the tip is worn down past the half way point the hit becomes harder and so the type and amount of spin I get changes. I like to feel my tip "bite" into the CB when I spin a shot. If my tip gets too low I find the hit plays harder and I get less "bite".

Remember that although a beautiful cue can feel nice and have great balance and your shaft is perfect for you style of play, the only part that affects the game through direct involvement is the tip, hence you need to ensure you properly maintain your tip and replace accordingly. I replace my tip as often as I need to maintain the feel I want.

I use Hercules 2's now (I got a silly great deal) and even though I like Snipers then Moori (in that order) better I will use up the balance of my H2's. I find that H2's do not last nearly as long as a Moori so it is up to you to decide how often to change your tip.

Try adding a pad between your tip and ferrule if you like a softer hit. It will also help prolong the life, I have been told, of the ferrule and the tip will be less likely to mushroom.
 
Please don't blame the tip. Is your stroke???
1. Repeatable.
2. Dependable
3. Reliable.

randyg
 
randyg said:
Please don't blame the tip. Is your stroke???
1. Repeatable.
2. Dependable
3. Reliable.

randyg
Click to expand...

Randy, with all due respect, even with a 1. Repeatable, 2. Dependable and 3. Reliable stroke, there are times when the tip can indeed be the culprit.

It's happened to me at times. If it occurs more than once in a short period, I'll take the cue ball and object ball and set up a 2 or 3 foot straight in shot with the cue ball about 3 feet from the object ball, and try to execute a table length draw. I never have any trouble pulling this shot off, not that it's hard. It isn't, it should be a bread and butter shot. However, what I did notice when the cue ball more or less sat near the object ball or drew just a little bit was that my tip may have needed a little bit of scuffing. Usually this problem tends to appear if I have been simply shooting pound shots, those shots where I'm pounding the cue ball into the object ball with maximum force to practice power stun through shots. After maybe 50 of those shots, it seems something sometimes happens to the tip and it gets a bit flatter. My normal tip radius is probably about that of a quarter, and I have no trouble drawing the cue ball with it. However, a little scuffing and rechalking usually fixes this problem. It's also possible that if the tip has become that little bit flatter that the normal position of the tip on the cue ball needs to be even lower than normal. And that small difference in tip shape can perhaps affect how the cue ball draws, and where exactly on the cue ball the contact needs to be made.

My 2 cents worth, ICBW.

Flex
 
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In my experience, it has never once been the tip. Maybe I'm just the luckiest player on the planet...
 
If the tip is in good condition with an even radius then its not the tip, it is your stroke. Or you can become a very good friend with your tip guy. LOL

Rod
 
Tips

I won't argue with the obvious--good stroke is necessary regardless of what tip you're using. But it should be just as obvious that different players have better results with certain kinds of tips. I've found that my preference is for softer tips. FWIW, the guy who works on my cues told me that medium mooris are harder than snipers, even though the latter are marked "medium hard." He says that snipers are closer to soft mooris. Try a sniper on your cue and see if your draw improves.
 
Flex said:
Randy, with all due respect, even with a 1. Repeatable, 2. Dependable and 3. Reliable stroke, there are times when the tip can indeed be the culprit.

It's happened to me at times. If it occurs more than once in a short period, I'll take the cue ball and object ball and set up a 2 or 3 foot straight in shot with the cue ball about 3 feet from the object ball, and try to execute a table length draw. I never have any trouble pulling this shot off, not that it's hard. It isn't, it should be a bread and butter shot. However, what I did notice when the cue ball more or less sat near the object ball or drew just a little bit was that my tip may have needed a little bit of scuffing. Usually this problem tends to appear if I have been simply shooting pound shots, those shots where I'm pounding the cue ball into the object ball with maximum force to practice power stun through shots. After maybe 50 of those shots, it seems something sometimes happens to the tip and it gets a bit flatter. My normal tip radius is probably about that of a quarter, and I have no trouble drawing the cue ball with it. However, a little scuffing and rechalking usually fixes this problem. It's also possible that if the tip has become that little bit flatter that the normal position of the tip on the cue ball needs to be even lower than normal. And that small difference in tip shape can perhaps affect how the cue ball draws, and where exactly on the cue ball the contact needs to be made.

My 2 cents worth, ICBW.

Flex
Click to expand...

Hi FLEX: Keeping your tip is perfect shape is always our job.

Quote: "And that small difference in tip shape can perhaps affect how the cue ball draws, and where exactly on the cue ball the contact needs to be made."

I thought our stroke determined where the cue tip hit?....SPF=randyg
 
Flex said:
Randy, with all due respect, even with a 1. Repeatable, 2. Dependable and 3. Reliable stroke, there are times when the tip can indeed be the culprit.

It's happened to me at times. If it occurs more than once in a short period, I'll take the cue ball and object ball and set up a 2 or 3 foot straight in shot with the cue ball about 3 feet from the object ball, and try to execute a table length draw. I never have any trouble pulling this shot off, not that it's hard. It isn't, it should be a bread and butter shot. However, what I did notice when the cue ball more or less sat near the object ball or drew just a little bit was that my tip may have needed a little bit of scuffing. Usually this problem tends to appear if I have been simply shooting pound shots, those shots where I'm pounding the cue ball into the object ball with maximum force to practice power stun through shots. After maybe 50 of those shots, it seems something sometimes happens to the tip and it gets a bit flatter. My normal tip radius is probably about that of a quarter, and I have no trouble drawing the cue ball with it. However, a little scuffing and rechalking usually fixes this problem. It's also possible that if the tip has become that little bit flatter that the normal position of the tip on the cue ball needs to be even lower than normal. And that small difference in tip shape can perhaps affect how the cue ball draws, and where exactly on the cue ball the contact needs to be made.

My 2 cents worth, ICBW.

Flex
Click to expand...

Flex...I'll bet the farm that if we video'd you in the times that you're describing, and analyzed it frame by frame, your stroke would be the culprit, rather than the tip. Shape means very little (as long as it isn't flat)...nickle, dime, quarter. Round hits round...flat does not hit round. Scuffing means very little...I NEVER scuff my tips, and almost never miscue. One exception...a poor quality tip, which is reasonably rare in today's environment of layered tips. LePros are still the best bargain...less then $.50 each (by the box), and if it fails you just put another one. Even a cuemaker cannot tell if a tip will fail until it's put on correctly and played with. Naturally this is jmo! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
randyg said:
Hi FLEX: Keeping your tip is perfect shape is always our job.

Quote: "And that small difference in tip shape can perhaps affect how the cue ball draws, and where exactly on the cue ball the contact needs to be made."

I thought our stroke determined where the cue tip hit?....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

Once again...on the same page...at the SAME time! :D

Scott
 
PoolSponge said:
I would probably say it is the tip. I find that after the tip is worn down past the half way point the hit becomes harder and so the type and amount of spin I get changes. I like to feel my tip "bite" into the CB when I spin a shot. If my tip gets too low I find the hit plays harder and I get less "bite".

Not exactly correct. When the sidewall of the tip is the thickness of a dime, it is time to replace the tip. There are always exceptions to the rule, though. I have a friend, an expert player, who can draw the ball to China with almost NO tip at all! :eek: It's ALL about the quality of your stroke!

Remember that although a beautiful cue can feel nice and have great balance and your shaft is perfect for you style of play, the only part that affects the game through direct involvement is the tip, hence you need to ensure you properly maintain your tip and replace accordingly. I replace my tip as often as I need to maintain the feel I want.
Click to expand...

This I agree with. I replace my tip about every 2-3 YEARS! I play almost every day, and I break with my playing cue too! :eek: :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
I've heard (not sure if it's true) that Moori tips have progressively harder layers of leather, the hardest at the bottom of the tip, so the more it's worn down, the harder it gets.
 
randyg said:
Hi FLEX: Keeping your tip is perfect shape is always our job.

Quote: "And that small difference in tip shape can perhaps affect how the cue ball draws, and where exactly on the cue ball the contact needs to be made."

I thought our stroke determined where the cue tip hit?....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

Oh, it does, absolutely. It's just that depending on the tip used, that contact point may need to vary a bit. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that as little as 1/32 of an inch difference can really change things. You may not agree on that one, but perhaps you will concede that accurate tip placement is key. Tell me, have you ever noticed when going way out on the edge of the cue ball, that there's a certain point where a miscue will occur, and that moving just a few hairs inside that point will avoid a miscue? Those few hairs difference can be very important, obviously.

Just wondering if you think the thickness of the tip will affect action on the cue ball when juicing it, or if different tips will drastically affect a cue's playability when going farther out on the cue ball?

Flex
 
Flex said:
Tell me, have you ever noticed when going way out on the edge of the cue ball, that there's a certain point where a miscue will occur, and that moving just a few hairs inside that point will avoid a miscue? Those few hairs difference can be very important, obviously.

Just wondering if you think the thickness of the tip will affect action on the cue ball when juicing it, or if different tips will drastically affect a cue's playability when going farther out on the cue ball?

Flex
Click to expand...

Flex...Since we're talking "hairs" here, let's be specific. A human hair is appx. 4/1000's of an inch thick. So a few hairs is still REALLY small! Way less than 1/32"! :D There is definitely an area of the CB where maximum spin is replaced by a miscue, even with a perfect tip and perfect stroke. Place a quarter balanced on the top of the CB (or better yet use a stripe). The edges of the quarter represent the maximum area of CB contact, using any tip. Jack White taught me this decades ago. It's in his book, and he called it the 'magic quarter'!

As to your second question...for the most part, no. Until the tip has no sidewall, an excellent delivery of the cuestick and tip through the CB will produce a repeatable, predictable result. From tip to tip, imo, brands don't vary that much. However personal perception is another issue altogether! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Flex...Since we're talking "hairs" here, let's be specific. A human hair is appx. 4/1000's of an inch thick. So a few hairs is still REALLY small! Way less than 1/32"! :D There is definitely an area of the CB where maximum spin is replaced by a miscue, even with a perfect tip and perfect stroke. Place a quarter balanced on the top of the CB (or better yet use a stripe). The edges of the quarter represent the maximum area of CB contact, using any tip. Jack White taught me this decades ago. It's in his book, and he called it the 'magic quarter'!

As to your second question...for the most part, no. Until the tip has no sidewall, an excellent delivery of the cuestick and tip through the CB will produce a repeatable, predictable result. From tip to tip, imo, brands don't vary that much. However personal perception is another issue altogether! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

The few hairs item I used was a rhetorical device to explain the idea that at a certain point a miscue will occur, a touch on the other side of the miscue point will avoid the miscue. And I have had the misfortune to miscue on some occasions, and when I check the tip have usually found there wasn't enough chalk at the location of the miscue, right on the edge of the tip, and there's usually a spot that is a tad bit shiny. Usually a judicious chalking at that point is enough to eliminate the problem, but if I have any doubt whatsoever about it, out comes the tip scuffer. I play almost exclusively with Milk Dud tips, you know the elkmaster tip soaked in milk for 24 hours and then compressed for another 24 hours. One may call it perception or whatever; I am happier with this tip than any of the others I've used, and I've used not a few. As for cost, they cost me less than 50 cents apiece, and I replace them myself.

People will argue about tips til the sun goes down and the cock crows in the wee hours of the morn, but those doggone screw on tips with what looks to be leather recycled from old shoes don't work too well, at least in my limited experience with them.

And for what it's worth, I think miscues are definitely more likely when shooting with the phenolic tip that's on one of my jump cues. Let those who perform actual scientific experiments tell me I'm all wet behind the ears, but for the life of me, I can't get those phenolics to play as well as my milk duds.

Flex
 
Given the original poster said there was no issues for four months and he only problem is draw,plus he was able to shoot fine with another cue with a new tip I don't think it's a stroke issue.

How long one individual likes to leave a tip on is not universal. To each their own. And different tips play different s they wear down. Some differences are much more noticeable.
 
Scott Lee said:
From tip to tip, imo, brands don't vary that much. However personal perception is another issue altogether! :D
Click to expand...

I try to tell people the same thing...all tips share similar quality, but price varies drastically. I play with a Triangle, it costed less than 50 cents. Still others pay up to $35 to have a Moori put on their cue... My point is, that you will hardly see a difference in performance (sure, they feel different) but the price is x70!

I've fooled myself into blaming my tips before, too; in the end, I realized that it was all my fault... I'd bet that is the case, and I'll make that bet every single time I hear this come up because the odds are in my favor on it. :D

I can't tell you how many times I've heard that a box of Triangles will be half "bad" ones. I am past half way through a box of them right now, and I have not yet encountered one bad tip. :rolleyes:
 
Flex said:
Oh, it does, absolutely. It's just that depending on the tip used, that contact point may need to vary a bit. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that as little as 1/32 of an inch difference can really change things. You may not agree on that one, but perhaps you will concede that accurate tip placement is key. Tell me, have you ever noticed when going way out on the edge of the cue ball, that there's a certain point where a miscue will occur, and that moving just a few hairs inside that point will avoid a miscue? Those few hairs difference can be very important, obviously.

Just wondering if you think the thickness of the tip will affect action on the cue ball when juicing it, or if different tips will drastically affect a cue's playability when going farther out on the cue ball?

Flex
Click to expand...

ust wondering if you think the thickness of the tip will affect action on the cue ball when juicing it, or if different tips will drastically affect a cue's playability when going farther out on the cue ball?

NOT MUCH!....randyg
 
Flex said:
People will argue about tips til the sun goes down and the cock crows in the wee hours of the morn, but those doggone screw on tips with what looks to be leather recycled from old shoes don't work too well, at least in my limited experience with them.

And for what it's worth, I think miscues are definitely more likely when shooting with the phenolic tip that's on one of my jump cues. Let those who perform actual scientific experiments tell me I'm all wet behind the ears, but for the life of me, I can't get those phenolics to play as well as my milk duds.

Flex
Click to expand...

Flex...No disagreement on either one of these comments. :D
 
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