Is Luat throwing the match?

T

TheFish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am watching the Davis / Luat match live on Star, and before the set started one of the commentators mentioned that luat was on a pool gambling site and checking out his odds against Davis, but it didnt say if he bet or not, although if I recalled correctly, it seemed to have suggested he did.

Anyways, Davis is up 7-4 and its not over yet, but Luat is missing some mighty ridiculous shots. I mean literally stupid shots. The worse part is that davis is missing some simple shots too so it puts Luat back on the table.


Anyone watching the set have the same thought. Nothing racist against Luat or him being flip whatsoever, but it does seem to fit the gambling profile of some pro level pool players who like to stay under the radar in big tourneys.
 
They were both playing like crap. I mean serious crap. I never seen steve davis so sloppy.
 
That's the thing with pool. I've seen the greatest players in the world miss a ball in hand shot. The mind is a terrible thing and it can do awful things to a very simple shot. Congratulations Luat, I had you picked in that match. Sam
 
TheFish said:
I am watching the Davis / Luat match live on Star, and before the set started one of the commentators mentioned that luat was on a pool gambling site and checking out his odds against Davis, but it didnt say if he bet or not, although if I recalled correctly, it seemed to have suggested he did.

This is one of the big problems with pool, the fact that someone could be throwing a match just to make more money

Anyways, Davis is up 7-4 and its not over yet, but Luat is missing some mighty ridiculous shots. I mean literally stupid shots. The worse part is that davis is missing some simple shots too so it puts Luat back on the table.

Maybe Davis had a bet on Luat.


Anyone watching the set have the same thought. Nothing racist against Luat or him being flip whatsoever, but it does seem to fit the gambling profile of some pro level pool players who like to stay under the radar in big tourneys.
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It's not a race thing it's a pool thing. Pool players regardless of race have been doing this for years. That's why being a backer is such a risky business. It has happened enough so that there is a slang term, "getting cut up" for it.
 
Rickw said:
It's not a race thing it's a pool thing. Pool players regardless of race have been doing this for years. That's why being a backer is such a risky business. It has happened enough so that there is a slang term, "getting cut up" for it.
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Rickw,
Amen!!! While there are those who feel that betting on pool will help popularize it, I'm not necessarily in agreement. My opinion is no one should bet on pool unless they are betting on themselves or their best friend (and then only with caution). Didn't any of these bettors see "The Color of Money?" There are a thousand ways these players can "cut up" the unwary bettor. There's just too much unsavory tradition to ever make me feel comfortable betting on these players. Does anyone think that Davis may be trying to dump too? It could get very ugly.
 
This is sad. A golf pro missing a two-foot put is called a choker.
A pro-pool player misses some easy shots and his motives are questioned.
I hope nobody accuses Varner of losing on purpose to Luat in the world 9-ball final.
Or did Rempe miss that easy shot to the side pocket on purpose?
They're all humans. Lemme see you play under the tv lights in front of hundreds of people and prolly millions on tv.
I once saw Wetch scratch to the side pocket on his last ball to get to the 8-ball in the world 8-ball against Efren. He lost the match on that shot.
But, lemme see you shoot in front of a packed house under tv lights.
 
Watched it and Luat did won the match. Kinda strange only one tv match for efren so far against Drago w/c was a no bearing match
 
I wouldn't put it past some of the pros I know to throw the match if they were betting online. I used to back a certain pro player who teamed up with a player and threw me in the ditch. Of course I realized what was going on after 2 sets.
 
The bad play wasn't because they were throwing the match. Steve and Rodolpho has some kind of a rivalry going and its putting pressure on both of them.
 
I don't disagree with you at all JC. The problem is the reputation this game has and the comment made stating that Luat might have been looking at the betting line. My point is, given the rep, we shouldn't have a betting line for the players to access. I don't know how to do that but until something is done, this game and the players are always going to be seen in a bad light.




Joseph Cues said:
This is sad. A golf pro missing a two-foot put is called a choker.
A pro-pool player misses some easy shots and his motives are questioned.
I hope nobody accuses Varner of losing on purpose to Luat in the world 9-ball final.
Or did Rempe miss that easy shot to the side pocket on purpose?
They're all humans. Lemme see you play under the tv lights in front of hundreds of people and prolly millions on tv.
I once saw Wetch scratch to the side pocket on his last ball to get to the 8-ball in the world 8-ball against Efren. He lost the match on that shot.
But, lemme see you shoot in front of a packed house under tv lights.
Click to expand...
 
Joseph Cues said:
This is sad. A golf pro missing a two-foot put is called a choker.
A pro-pool player misses some easy shots and his motives are questioned.
I hope nobody accuses Varner of losing on purpose to Luat in the world 9-ball final.
Or did Rempe miss that easy shot to the side pocket on purpose?
They're all humans. Lemme see you play under the tv lights in front of hundreds of people and prolly millions on tv.
I once saw Wetch scratch to the side pocket on his last ball to get to the 8-ball in the world 8-ball against Efren. He lost the match on that shot.
But, lemme see you shoot in front of a packed house under tv lights.
Click to expand...
The thing is, this has happened before. Thats the sad thing everytime a player has a bad match you have to wonder because people have thrown matches and tournaments in the past. In the early 90's there was a tournament at the Mirage called "The Challenge of Champions", this was a single elimination 8 man winner take all. invitational tournament that was basically made for television. ESPN broadcasted the event on tape. What was different about this tournament was that the sports book of The Mirage placed odds and took bets on the matches. Wouldn't you know the biggest longshot in the field, Mike Lebron I think he was like 60 years old at the time, wins the event. Rumor was that this tournament was fixed and there has never been another tournament I can remember at The Mirage. Also I don't think any sports book will get involved with pool again for a long time. This is why people come to these conclusions, if you can't even trust the top players to be on the level then this game will continue to go nowhere.
 
Throw

I doubt any players in Taipei are throwing matches unless they are making loads of sure money and letting no one know (unlikely). I don't think betting is necessarily bad for the game, especially since it is so entrenched in pool culture; it can make it much more interesting. The only reason players would be throwing games is if the prize money isn't worth it.

On another note, earlier sjm and others were expressing their dismay at the American performance in the WPC; though, despite not being much of a patriot, I'd say Johnny and Earl could take it from the Asians and Europeans anytime. Essentially, pool is an individualistic showdown, Mosconi Cup notwithstanding.
 
If anyone can recall, Tony Annigoni posted a statement on AZB stating how the finals of the reno pro-am (the USPPA amature tournament fall 2003) was "pre-determined" and gave an apology for it. Then about couple of months later he posted on AZB that he is starting up a "betting online" on pool tournaments and was based out of Purto Rico (or some place like that). So when a player is accused of "dumping" it is the same as going to court and being guilty until proven innocent!
 
In reference to this Luat/ Davis match I say this thread is MALICIOUS.

To advance to the round of 16 -at least, will benefit Luat more. Unless he placed a bundle on the game. Which is very unlikely, as the man has been out of the big matches for sometime now. He is a qualifier in this tournament, has no major sponsor, and yearns to get back on the big stage. Getting back into the spotlight would require him to win something significant.

As for Davis, this is a 6-time world snooker champion. He has earned millions playing on tables with 6 pockets. Why would he stake his reputation for a few dollars?
 
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Just a few things to point out.

1) Definitely not meant as malicious. Both Davis and Luat missed really retarded shots. Luat missed a straight on pocket to the side, and a easy english cut into the corner with the ob on the short rail. Davis missed a relatively elementary safety. It was just very weird.

2) About the golfers choking and so on. Golfers will about 200,000 US + for most tournaments Skins and regular tourneys. The biggest championship of all is 75,000 US at the WPC. Golfers have tournaments to go to everyday that pays these huge payouts, pool has 2 or 3 of these tournmanets a year (I must admit its much better than even 5 years ago). Matches between top players of golf take place at a golf course which has infinite variables like weather and the undulations of the green. Pool is played in a billion pool halls with relatively identical 4.5 X 9 tables. Its one thing to miss a 2 footer on a course with huge undulations, its another to miss a dead on shot on a flat table regardless of how nervous you are - non-pros excepted. Overall, golfers will never have incentive to cheat because the big money is staying up on the game at the tournaments, Pool players though. I am not saying Luat specifically, that try to make a living on pool can eitehr try winning every tournament or throwing a game or two. Which do you think is easier?

3) Someone commented about the money Luat can make by making it farther. Yes and no. Immediate gain, maybe he makes 10, 20, 30 or whatever thousand dollars. But if he wins the world championship, thats it...I am pretty sure hhis handicap withe the pple at wherever he plays is gonna be much tougher on his end. If he does this for a career (this is an unknown) then he is pretty much screwed.

4) Some of you are gonna comment that I aint saying anything about Davis. One simple reason, Davis still plays snooker. There is huge money in snooker, before I believe comparable to golf somewhat.

Anyways, I hope you guys see this isn't about any hatred. See the match for yourself. Even the commentators are doubting every shot.
 
One last thing

Work out the math. Lets say that the odds on pool betting (I hae no idea i dun bet on pool online) is similar to soccer (football to everyone outside americana). So the odds are based on final scores and differentials. Lets say Davis gets 5:1 if he beats Luat 9- 3 or better 3:1 if he beats luat 9:6 or better and so on.


All luat has to do is get a backer to plop in 10 - 15K US and he can rake in 50-75K in one set. Rather than taking the chance of trying to go all the way to win the same amount of money.


Seriously, the economics in pool encourages betting. When betting companies give odds on pool they tempt pool players just because the payout there is much bigger than the payout at any tournament.
 
TheFish said:
One last thing

Work out the math. Lets say that the odds on pool betting (I hae no idea i dun bet on pool online) is similar to soccer (football to everyone outside americana). So the odds are based on final scores and differentials. Lets say Davis gets 5:1 if he beats Luat 9- 3 or better 3:1 if he beats luat 9:6 or better and so on.


All luat has to do is get a backer to plop in 10 - 15K US and he can rake in 50-75K in one set. Rather than taking the chance of trying to go all the way to win the same amount of money.


Seriously, the economics in pool encourages betting. When betting companies give odds on pool they tempt pool players just because the payout there is much bigger than the payout at any tournament.
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Fish, we all understand that in the absence of substantial rewards, all sports are vulnerable to fixes. Even college sports (see Arizona St basketball) has this problem, as we've seen.

Still, in understanding the size of this temptation, we can't logically assume every time we see poor play that the fix is in.

Now if you saw a player play at three times their normal pace, you might offer that as possible evidence that they aren't giving a full effort. Poor play alone cannot be offered as evidence of impropriety.

While I'm quite sure no malice was intended here, the suggestion of a fix was inappropriate.
 
Joseph Cues said:
This is sad. A golf pro missing a two-foot put is called a choker.
A pro-pool player misses some easy shots and his motives are questioned.
I hope nobody accuses Varner of losing on purpose to Luat in the world 9-ball final.
Or did Rempe miss that easy shot to the side pocket on purpose?
They're all humans. Lemme see you play under the tv lights in front of hundreds of people and prolly millions on tv.
I once saw Wetch scratch to the side pocket on his last ball to get to the 8-ball in the world 8-ball against Efren. He lost the match on that shot.
But, lemme see you shoot in front of a packed house under tv lights.
Click to expand...
That was a heartbreaking shot! I really felt sorry for him and it seems that it took him a long, long time to recover. I could not believe my eyes.
 
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