Is the McDermott G-Core shaft a high deflection shaft?

tomker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read what Dr. Dave has written about low deflection (squirt) shafts.

From my understanding, "low deflection" shafts actually deflect (bend) more than regular shafts when you hit the cue ball, and that's what decreases cue ball squirt.

So does it logically follow that stiffer, less-bendy shafts increase cue ball squirt vs. a regular maple shaft?

Looking at the McDermott G-Core shaft, it seems they use carbon fiber cylinders to stiffen ("strengthen") the front of the shafts.

It seems like this would result in a "high deflection" shaft, which would be undesirable.

The reason I ask is because I'm thinking about buying a new McDermott cue but it has a G-Core shaft and I'm hesitant to spend money on something that might be specially engineered to be worse (and more expensive) than a regular shaft.

Am I missing anything? Thanks in advance for any insight!
 
Dr Daves testing (and other peoples also) show that the vast vast vast majority of CB squirt is determined by the front end mass of the shaft, and not the "bending stiffness" of the shaft.

All that said, the McDermott Intimidator series shafts (I-1, I-2, and I-3) are Mcdermotts low squirt offerings, not the G series. They have a carbon fiber core. I used to play with them, and they were similar to the Predator offerings as far as squirt goes, IMO.
 
Nothing about deflection or squirt on the McDermott page:
Triple-Layer Design
The G-Core’s triple-layer design reduces vibration and minimizes shaft distortion. This increases radial consistency, which promotes enhanced accuracy and stability.

CT Technology
The G-Core utilizes our proprietary CT Technology (Carbon Tenon): a carbon fiber ferrule core that results in greater strength, efficiency and precision. This results in a stronger ferrule assembly with maximum impact properties and enhanced feedback. The red dampening device at the base of the ferrule helps reduce shaft vibration upon impact.

Radial Consistency
Radial consistency is the shaft’s ability to perform the same way on every shot, regardless of its orientation. The carbon fiber core technology found in the G-Core makes it one of the most radial consistent shaft on the market. The G-Core will consistently provide a straighter cue ball path, minimizing the need to compensate for spin and throw.


I think they are decent shafts but not LD or low squirt.
 
I've read what Dr. Dave has written about low deflection (squirt) shafts.

From my understanding, "low deflection" shafts actually deflect (bend) more than regular shafts when you hit the cue ball, and that's what decreases cue ball squirt.

So does it logically follow that stiffer, less-bendy shafts increase cue ball squirt vs. a regular maple shaft?

Looking at the McDermott G-Core shaft, it seems they use carbon fiber cylinders to stiffen ("strengthen") the front of the shafts.

It seems like this would result in a "high deflection" shaft, which would be undesirable.

The reason I ask is because I'm thinking about buying a new McDermott cue but it has a G-Core shaft and I'm hesitant to spend money on something that might be specially engineered to be worse (and more expensive) than a regular shaft.

Am I missing anything? Thanks in advance for any insight!



You have it correct.

I play with a G-Core and it hits like a rocket.

randyg
 
I bought an I shaft this past summer at The APA event. The McDermott guy told me the G Core was sort of the bridge shaft between the solid maple and the LD shaft. I didn't care for it one little bit, but I know people that love it.
 
I have the G-Core and have used it exclusively for 2 years so I am used to any kind of deflection it may produce.

What that said, I think it has little and I am able to aim quite well with it when hitting off center (which I only do when absolutely needed).
 
I have the G-Core and have used it exclusively for 2 years so I am used to any kind of deflection it may produce.

What that said, I think it has little and I am able to aim quite well with it when hitting off center (which I only do when absolutely needed).
I'm the opposite. Love to juice up the cue ball. If the rock ain't spinnin I ain't grinnin!

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
G-core deflects more than a predator. I had a 12.5mm diameter G-core and the deflection was greater than the Predator 314 (at 12.75mm). That being said, it's an ok shaft. Good value etc and it deflects less than a McDermott regular shaft. The normal maple McDermott are very high deflection shafts, among the highest I've tried when it comes to production cues.
 
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If you want low squirt, and want the McDermott brand, you want the I-1, I-2, I-3 series shafts. I'm 100% sure of this.
 
Dr Daves testing (and other peoples also) show that the vast vast vast majority of CB squirt is determined by the front end mass of the shaft, and not the "bending stiffness" of the shaft.

All that said, the McDermott Intimidator series shafts (I-1, I-2, and I-3) are Mcdermotts low squirt offerings, not the G series. They have a carbon fiber core. I used to play with them, and they were similar to the Predator offerings as far as squirt goes, IMO.

"Front end mass" is an idea that (counterintuitively) encompasses several factors. Dr. Dave writes about stiffness specifically:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#endmass

So, assuming that the G-Core's carbon fiber cylinders increase stiffness without meaningfully decreasing mass (because they are so thin), I would expect a G-Core shaft to impart more squirt than a regular maple shaft.

According to Dr. Dave's testing, McDermott's Intimidator shafts are pretty low deflection but I think that must come down to how skinny they are. Any extra stiffness from the carbon fiber cylinders must be negated by simply having less wood at the front (and maybe a smaller/lighter ferrule?).

So I guess I'm still confused about why McDermott's mid-tier shaft seems to be designed on purpose, according to their advertising, to give a stiffer (and thus more squirt-imparting) hit. Is it because they think the hit feels better, or because a more rigid shaft seems intuitively better to potential customers who don't know about Dr. Dave's analysis on squirt, or is it possible that they designed these shafts without knowing what causes (or reduces) squirt?
 
You have it correct.

I play with a G-Core and it hits like a rocket.

randyg

What the poster said is not at all what Dr Dave has said. I have hit plenty of balls with G-Core shafts. They are not particularly low squirt. I don't think the rocket qualities were what he was asking about.

You may like how the G-Core plays, but he got it quite wrong in his summary of Dr. Dave's claims.

KMRUNOUT
 
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"Front end mass" is an idea that (counterintuitively) encompasses several factors. Dr. Dave writes about stiffness specifically:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#endmass

So, assuming that the G-Core's carbon fiber cylinders increase stiffness without meaningfully decreasing mass (because they are so thin), I would expect a G-Core shaft to impart more squirt than a regular maple shaft.

According to Dr. Dave's testing, McDermott's Intimidator shafts are pretty low deflection but I think that must come down to how skinny they are. Any extra stiffness from the carbon fiber cylinders must be negated by simply having less wood at the front (and maybe a smaller/lighter ferrule?).

So I guess I'm still confused about why McDermott's mid-tier shaft seems to be designed on purpose, according to their advertising, to give a stiffer (and thus more squirt-imparting) hit. Is it because they think the hit feels better, or because a more rigid shaft seems intuitively better to potential customers who don't know about Dr. Dave's analysis on squirt, or is it possible that they designed these shafts without knowing what causes (or reduces) squirt?

This is a great series of questions. I'll try to clear it up for you.

Stiffness has very little to do with the amount of squirt. It has a lot to do with how the shaft feels, how you perceive the "hit", and probably whether you like playing with it.

It is primarily the mass of the end of the shaft that affects squirt. Many companies *replace* the wood with either a hollow space, or a material that is lighter than the wood itself. Remember that the structural strength of carbon fiber is quite a bit greater than maple wood. Thus a thinner and lighter piece of carbon fiber can be be used to achieve the same strength as a larger and heavier piece of maple.

It would appear that the G Core idea is to replace some of the wood with carbon fiber. As far as I know, this is exactly the design philosophy in Cuetec's R360 line of shafts. Cuetec, I would argue, implemented this concept far better if indeed the objective was to reduce squirt. The R360 has considerably less squirt than the G-Core.

If the goal of the G-Core design was strictly to reduce cueball squirt, then I would say this lends a lot of weight to the idea that they designed these shafts without knowing what causes squirt.

I have played with the i3 shaft, and I can tell you it has quite a bit less squirt than the G-Core. Not nearly in the league of something like the Predator Z2 shaft, but much less than the G-Core. The G-Core might have a hair less squirt than a regular maple shaft, but really the range of possible squirt for all the various millions of solid maple shafts is all over the map. I've hit with an old Southwest with an original micarta ferrule, about 12.5mm, that required almost no adjustment from the 314-2 Predator I shot with. However this is HIGHLY unusual.

If you can get yourself to the Super Billiards Expo, you can try out all these different shafts within a short time of each other and get your own comparison. I would recommend trying to shoot balls in with loads of english and see how you do. There are plenty of reference shots you can set up to test out the squirt of a given shaft.

The term high deflection sounds odd. I think, though, that the short answer to your question is that the G-Core is not a low deflection (squirt) shaft. It is pretty much in the ball park of most standard maple shafts, maybe a hair less.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT
 
This is a great series of questions. I'll try to clear it up for you.

Stiffness has very little to do with the amount of squirt. It has a lot to do with how the shaft feels, how you perceive the "hit", and probably whether you like playing with it.

It is primarily the mass of the end of the shaft that affects squirt. Many companies *replace* the wood with either a hollow space, or a material that is lighter than the wood itself. Remember that the structural strength of carbon fiber is quite a bit greater than maple wood. Thus a thinner and lighter piece of carbon fiber can be be used to achieve the same strength as a larger and heavier piece of maple.

It would appear that the G Core idea is to replace some of the wood with carbon fiber. As far as I know, this is exactly the design philosophy in Cuetec's R360 line of shafts. Cuetec, I would argue, implemented this concept far better if indeed the objective was to reduce squirt. The R360 has considerably less squirt than the G-Core.
...

Thank you for the reply.

Stiffness definitely affects squirt, at least according to Dr. Dave. Please read the link I posted above. To quote:

"This effect can be clear with carbon-fiber shafts, where you would expect the end of the shaft to be much lighter (which tends to reduce "endmass"); however, because the end of the shaft can also be very stiff (which tends to increase effective "endmass"), the amount of squirt can be comparable to a wood shaft that might be little heavier at the end."

Notice in particular the comment about stiffness increasing the "effective endmass" and thus squirt.

The Cuetec does have a carbon fiber cylinder running down the entire center of the shaft (increase stiffness) but that cylinder is also hollow (reduces mass). The result being a medium-low deflection shaft according to Dr. Dave's measurements.

The G-Core has a carbon fiber cylinder but it seems to be filled with wood, meaning that stiffness is increased but I doubt mass is meaningfully decreased. So I would expect it to impart more squirt than a regular maple cue.

I had a chance to hit with a regular McDermott shaft yesterday and a G-Core. I doubt I would have been able to tell the difference if I couldn't see the label. I don't think I'd pay extra for the G-Core.
 
Btw, carbon fiber is more dense than maple (heavier). Almost 3 times as dense according to the charts I found online. Food for thought...

To the op, again, if you want a low deflection shaft and want to stay within the McDermott brand, the "I" series shafts are what you want.
 
Btw, carbon fiber is more dense than maple (heavier). Almost 3 times as dense according to the charts I found online. Food for thought...

To the op, again, if you want a low deflection shaft and want to stay within the McDermott brand, the "I" series shafts are what you want.

Cool. Yeah, my issue is that I'm thinking about buying a new McDermott cue and the design I like comes with a G-Core shaft and is somewhat more expensive than the ones with regular shafts. I'm annoyed that I might be paying extra for the G-Core shaft when I totally don't get the point of its design/engineering. Plus, the carbon fiber cylinders probably mean that it can't really be turned down, in case I want to do that later.
 
I have a McDermott cue that came with the G-Core shaft. It was under $250 and a nice cue, well worth the money. I ordered mine at 12.5mm and I'm pretty sure that they can be turned down to a smaller diameter.
 
I have a McDermott cue that came with the G-Core shaft. It was under $250 and a nice cue, well worth the money. I ordered mine at 12.5mm and I'm pretty sure that they can be turned down to a smaller diameter.

Same here 12.5mm Gcore and love it. Been to SBE these past three years and tried the ishafts, Z2, 314, and Ob shafts; I really didn't feel much of a difference if any at all. I use spin (BHE) and don't compensate much if any on my aim, only some shots and for these shots only I don't use BHE.

If there is a difference is really not that much IMHO
 
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