is there a "best" way to make this shot?

E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
position is not needed- just make the ball
obviously we don't want to scratch
so then is it just about comfort level?
or is there a "best" way to make this shot?
 

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I would shoot it with no side spin, one tip above center, roll in in, nice and easy. Let the cb float to the side rail, below the corner pocket. If you aim anywhere lower on the cb, you'll have to jack up, considering where the cb is.
 
Here is the position in Virtual Pool with the shot played the simple way with a rolling cue ball and no side spin:

CropperCapture[678].png


(The diagram in ChalkySticks is not for a 9-foot table. The VP drawing above for a 9-foot table is as close as I could get the centers of the balls to match the balls in your diagram relative to the diamonds.)

With that position and a slowish follow shot, there is no way that you can scratch. You will always land on the end rail as shown.

However, and it is a huge however....

If the object ball is moved one ball diameter to the northeast, you get this result for the same shot:

CropperCapture[679].png


The "half ball follow angle rule" guarantees that if you play the shot with a rolling cue ball at medium speed, you will scratch. The only way for you to avoid the scratch is to horribly mishit the cue ball.

If you cannot look at the two positions while standing at the table and realize that the first is simple and the second is poison, then you must play shots like this some other way. Until you can tell the difference, I suggest that you draw the cue ball to go to the side rail. Use outside english as well if it makes you more comfortable with the shot.

Two related suggestions: If you don't already know about the half-ball follow angle (sometimes called the 30-degree rule), you need to learn it. You need to learn it so well that you can judge shots like this -- whether they are scratches or not. It is the basis of position play for all medium cut angles and a rolling cue ball.

You need to get Virtual Pool. It allows you to set up shots like this to do what-ifs. It models pool shots very, very accurately.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Like Fran says.

A rolling cue ball at medium speed is easiest to hit well, goes straightest, causes little throw and won’t scratch here.

Uncomplicate.

pj
chgo
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evergruven said:
position is not needed- just make the ball
obviously we don't want to scratch
so then is it just about comfort level?
or is there a "best" way to make this shot?
Click to expand...
Remember "Why did Jose hit the 9 this way"

There are a whole bunch of shots that while different can be grouped together in the same category. This is one of them and every pro player hits them all the same way. Low ball, touch of outside.

I suppose we could get into physics or studies and turn this into a novel but the bottom line is if the best players, almost to a man, do something the same way, there's probably a damn good reason for it.
 
sparkle84 said:
Remember "Why did Jose hit the 9 this way"

There are a whole bunch of shots that while different can be grouped together in the same category. This is one of them and every pro player hits them all the same way. Low ball, touch of outside.

I suppose we could get into physics or studies and turn this into a novel but the bottom line is if the best players, almost to a man, do something the same way, there's probably a damn good reason for it.
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I agree.
I was thinking about what Earl would do.
There is no doubt in my mind that he would use either stun or draw and outside english.
 
Imac007 said:
I agree.
I was thinking about what Earl would do.
There is no doubt in my mind that he would use either stun or draw and outside english.
Click to expand...

I often see pros hitting these kinds of shots with stun/draw
how significant is the possibility of skid/kick when deciding to roll the cb or hit with stun/draw, do you think?

thanks all for the replies..as usual, interesting to see what everybody thinks
 
evergruven said:
how significant is the possibility of skid/kick when deciding to roll the cb or hit with stun/draw, do you think?
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For a pro the (small) likelihood of a skid/kick might be greater than their (even smaller) likelihood of misjudging the squirt/swerve/throw of hitting it like that.

For a non-pro it's probably the other way around - meaning you and I should probably shoot it with a rolling CB.

pj
chgo
 
evergruven said:
I often see pros hitting these kinds of shots with stun/draw
how significant is the possibility of skid/kick when deciding to roll the cb or hit with stun/draw, do you think?

thanks all for the replies..as usual, interesting to see what everybody thinks
Click to expand...
A kick or skid is less likely with a rotating ball.
Gearing english works with follow, stun or draw.
It completely takes the scratch out of the picture.
A firm stroke is used and the 40% offset needs to be roughly that length at the cb center.
A parallel shift from the center ball line is best.
I shoot the diagramed shot with gearing stun and watch the cue ball float to the other side rail.
The decision is based on removing throw and the lesser kick possibility is just a plus.
Cueing is part of the mindset.
Do not try to spin the ball
A straight through stroke avoiding any spin action with the cueing contact.
 
Pay attention to the location of both balls. It's important.

First of all, if you use stun, you're asking for the object ball to jaw the pocket. . You can use backspin if you kill the cue ball speed. But if you hit it like a draw shot, then you're coming dangerously close to the cross-side pocket, plus you may be bridging on the rail. Hard to tell exactly, but it's close. If the ob was a little higher towards the top rail, then you can consider a backspin shot, and even with a touch of outside if it makes you feel better, but you have to watch the speed. Shots like this like to jaw the pocket. I think that on this particular shot, the pros would choose to stay away from backspin due to the location of both balls.
 
Looks too close to a scratch shot on a small table. On a bar box I like the stun or slight draw option to eliminate any bad table roll or possibility of scratching. More in favor of using a little draw with outside, vs stun.

On a 9ft you could roll it in with medium speed and be good, like Fran said. But if you don't have a good eye for recognizing where the cb is going to go, and a similar shot comes up, like Bob pointed out, a slight difference in the shot angle makes for a good scratch shot.

I think you should practice hitting it every way mentioned, then decide which way works best for you.
 
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BC21 said:
I think you should practice hitting it every way mentioned, then decide which way works best for you.
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thanks for the reply, brian, and agree. I generally know what I like, but only given what I know- it's a big (pool) world.
also, when I designed the question/shot picture, I definitely was not thinking of table size- that's an interesting point.

thanks all for the replies-
 
BC21 said:
Looks too close to a scratch shot on a small table. On a bar box I like the stun or slight draw option to eliminate any bad table roll or possibility of scratching. More in favor of using a little draw with outside, vs stun.

On a 9ft you could roll it in with medium speed and be good, like Fran said. But if you don't have a good eye for recognizing where the cb is going to go, and a similar shot comes up, like Bob pointed out, a slight difference in the shot angle makes for a good scratch shot.

I think you should practice hitting it every way mentioned, then decide which way works best for you.
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I would prefer medium-soft speed. Also, not too high on the cue ball. Just a tip above center is fine.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Here is a very similar shot that was just played in the World Cup of Pool (at 17:44).


You have to know the scratch angle.
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Exactly. This shot is just too close to scratching. Even if you're 100% sure you won't scratch on any particular shot where the scratch looks very close, if you hit the ob a touch too thick or a touch too thin you're probably going to scratch.
 
BC21 said:
Exactly. This shot is just too close to scratching. Even if you're 100% sure you won't scratch on any particular shot where the scratch looks very close, if you hit the ob a touch too thick or a touch too thin you're probably going to scratch.
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I think the mistake in the clip wasn't the aim but the speed and lack of a rolling cue ball. Maybe I'm seeing the angle wrong, but I think he had to work to get to the pocket. Of course he might have thought the scratch was on and he worked to avoid it, mistakenly.
 
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Rolling CB works unless it doesn't.

Light draw with outside 'gearing english' always works.

If you're jacking up to hit draw on this CB you need to rethink you bridging method.
 
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