Is there a "smart" cue ball yet?

RacerX750

Registered
I've been in IT for decades but my life outside of work is as analog as I can make it. Pool and any other sport comes down to execution. You can study all the feedback that technology can offer and get benefit from it, but it won't help your stroke, concentration, or give you the experience that table time will. In my opinion expert instruction is much more valuable to get you on the path to improvement. If you observe every detail of your technique and shots you'll know if you tend to overcut or whatever a particular shot. I used to think there was a formula for aiming - there isn't. Or one for English - while there are methods, it still boils down to feel. All of the best players I know say the same thing - feel the shot. As long as you visualize the end result before you get down on the table and have a straight, confident stroke your game will improve. There just aren't any tricks or magic pills. Unfortunately for me I'm a slow learner, but steady progress is not a bad thing.
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
I've been in IT for decades but my life outside of work is as analog as I can make it. Pool and any other sport comes down to execution. You can study all the feedback that technology can offer and get benefit from it, but it won't help your stroke, concentration, or give you the experience that table time will. In my opinion expert instruction is much more valuable to get you on the path to improvement. If you observe every detail of your technique and shots you'll know if you tend to overcut or whatever a particular shot. I used to think there was a formula for aiming - there isn't. Or one for English - while there are methods, it still boils down to feel. All of the best players I know say the same thing - feel the shot. As long as you visualize the end result before you get down on the table and have a straight, confident stroke your game will improve. There just aren't any tricks or magic pills. Unfortunately for me I'm a slow learner, but steady progress is not a bad thing.

There might be some confusion going on here. No one is advocating that this type of tech will replace hard work and practice, just that it will offer data that can help you improve or focus how you apply your hard work and practice. For example, if I go for a cut shot and miss was it because my aim was off, my stroke was off, or did I succeed in those things and failed to consider proper CIT/SIT? Or when I am putting sidespin and miss terribly, did I actually hit where was aiming meaning I successfully accounted for the amount of deflection and now I need to consider SIT or did I miscalculate deflection and just missed hitting the ball correctly? If I draw a shot and it doesn't quite go where I want, is it because I didn't put enough force or because I didn't put enough English? These are all areas where more data can help me refine my understanding and practice efforts.
 

nataddrho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There might be some confusion going on here. No one is advocating that this type of tech will replace hard work and practice, just that it will offer data that can help you improve or focus how you apply your hard work and practice. For example, if I go for a cut shot and miss was it because my aim was off, my stroke was off, or did I succeed in those things and failed to consider proper CIT/SIT? Or when I am putting sidespin and miss terribly, did I actually hit where was aiming meaning I successfully accounted for the amount of deflection and now I need to consider SIT or did I miscalculate deflection and just missed hitting the ball correctly? If I draw a shot and it doesn't quite go where I want, is it because I didn't put enough force or because I didn't put enough English? These are all areas where more data can help me refine my understanding and practice efforts.
It's a tool, not a gimmick or a quick fix.

I'm my experience in the pool industry, there are just some people who refuse to accept any change, innovation, or technology into their arena, and will never try to understand the first sentence above.

That's fine, and they're not the correct audience.
 

RacerX750

Registered
It's a tool, not a gimmick or a quick fix.

I'm my experience in the pool industry, there are just some people who refuse to accept any change, innovation, or technology into their arena, and will never try to understand the first sentence above.

That's fine, and they're not the correct audience.
No argument, I understand how new tools can help you learn from the feedback they provide. And early on in my pool journey I used some of them, and they helped. But the benefit, at least for me, was miniscule. What I use to measure where my stroke is at including accuracy of hit on the cue ball, speed, feel, everything really, is the simple drill of place the cue ball on the spot and bank it back from the far short rail. If it comes right back to the cue tip over the spot you're on the right track. If not I have to examine all the variables involved and identify what I'm doing wrong. I can't imagine any better feedback than that. If you get that working, everything else becomes easier to learn because you've refined your knowledge of stroke, aim, speed and feel. And in my experience, after I had a basic foundation, most misses are caused by a faulty stroke.
 

nataddrho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No argument, I understand how new tools can help you learn from the feedback they provide. And early on in my pool journey I used some of them, and they helped. But the benefit, at least for me, was miniscule. What I use to measure where my stroke is at including accuracy of hit on the cue ball, speed, feel, everything really, is the simple drill of place the cue ball on the spot and bank it back from the far short rail. If it comes right back to the cue tip over the spot you're on the right track. If not I have to examine all the variables involved and identify what I'm doing wrong. I can't imagine any better feedback than that. If you get that working, everything else becomes easier to learn because you've refined your knowledge of stroke, aim, speed and feel. And in my experience, after I had a basic foundation, most misses are caused by a faulty stroke.
Everything you said here excellent and correct.

The straight back drill, or "12-diamond drill" as I call it, is a perfect way for you to test that your tip accuracy, vision, and alignment are all focused on the center vertical axis of the ball.

But that just works for center ball shots. Shots with side spin, and variations of follow and draw, all "feel" different.

I want to take it a step further. I want a player to be able to say out-loud "I am going to use 1:15 o-clock English" (assuming the face of the cue ball is an analog clock, which is easy to understand). The electronic training ball will report back the exact English you used.

If a player is consistently inaccurate applying spin, say for example, every time he tries to hit 1:15 he is hitting something like 1:45 or 2:00, then this could help provide insight into a issue. The issue could be a mechanical flaw, or it could be that his developed feel is a little off and needs adjustment. The issue could be for that particular shot for that particular table layout, or it could be more general.

My point is that "tip accuracy" in particular gets much less attention than "aiming the object ball". I think all players are much better at object ball aiming then they give themselves credit for, and they spend too much time with aiming systems and object ball focus. There is more improvement to be made in tip accuracy and getting your "feel" for all types of shots with spin to match EXACTLY what your brain expects it to.

There currently isn't a product that allows a player to directly measure his tip accuracy for the full collection of shots needed to play real pool, other than training balls with graphics printed on them. The problem with training balls is that you need to manually align them (error prone), touch the ball between every shot (illegal) and then try to find a chalk mark that may or may not have rubbed off (cumbersome). I'm proposing a solution that solves all of these problems; a hands-free training ball.

Of course, you can just do drills like we have been doing for 100 years and develop all of this feedback through cue ball position and time. This product will just give you more feedback to work with and hopefully make your practice sessions, which we all should be doing anyway, a more efficient use of your time. It will also reinforce your game confidence and pre-shot routine if you know you are executing exactly what your brain wants it to for all situations.

I also want everyone to have fun practicing, and actually practice. I've already found that this is very fun to use for both drills and real games.
 
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RacerX750

Registered
Everything you said here excellent and correct.

The straight back drill, or "12-diamond drill" as I call it, is a perfect way for you to test that your tip accuracy, vision, and alignment are all focused on the center vertical axis of the ball.

But that just works for center ball shots. Shots with side spin, and variations of follow and draw, all "feel" different.

I want to take it a step further. I want a player to be able to say out-loud "I am going to use 1:15 o-clock English" (assuming the face of the cue ball is an analog clock, which is easy to understand). The electronic training ball will report back the exact English you used.

If a player is consistently inaccurate applying spin, say for example, every time he tries to hit 1:15 he is hitting something like 1:45 or 2:00, then this could help provide insight into a issue. The issue could be a mechanical flaw, or it could be that his developed feel is a little off and needs adjustment. The issue could be for that particular shot for that particular table layout, or it could be more general.

My point is that "tip accuracy" in particular gets much less attention than "aiming the object ball". I think all players are much better at object ball aiming then they give themselves credit for, and they spend too much time with aiming systems and object ball focus. There is more improvement to be made in tip accuracy and getting your "feel" for all types of shots with spin to match EXACTLY what your brain expects it to.

There currently isn't a product that allows a player to directly measure his tip accuracy for the full collection of shots needed to play real pool, other than training balls with graphics printed on them. The problem with training balls is that you need to manually align them (error prone), touch the ball between every shot (illegal) and then try to find a chalk mark that may or may not have rubbed off (cumbersome). I'm proposing a solution that solves all of these problems; a hands-free training ball.

Of course, you can just do drills like we have been doing for 100 years and develop all of this feedback through cue ball position and time. This product will just give you more feedback to work with and hopefully make your practice sessions, which we all should be doing anyway, a more efficient use of your time. It will also reinforce your game confidence and pre-shot routine if you know you are executing exactly what your brain wants it to for all situations.

I also want everyone to have fun practicing, and actually practice. I've already found that this is very fun to use for both drills and real games.
I understand. That would be quite helpful. And I know you realize that tip placement feedback is just one aspect of what we all strive to achieve. You could nail the same spot on the cue ball with slightly different speeds and get different results. But knowing the value of that one variable (tip placement) would allow you to focus on the next thing. I will also admit, I've always done things the hard way. Yup, that's not the best way, but somehow for me I learn the most in the long run. The epiphany hits me, eventually. The silver lining is that I accrue a vast database of how not to do something!
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
I understand. That would be quite helpful. And I know you realize that tip placement feedback is just one aspect of what we all strive to achieve. You could nail the same spot on the cue ball with slightly different speeds and get different results. But knowing the value of that one variable (tip placement) would allow you to focus on the next thing. I will also admit, I've always done things the hard way. Yup, that's not the best way, but somehow for me I learn the most in the long run. The epiphany hits me, eventually. The silver lining is that I accrue a vast database of how not to do something!

This is ultimately the crux of things. Such a tool will not work for everyone. Sometimes, what might be considered the "hard way" is in fact the "best way" for an individual. As unique entities, we all have preferences on how we can learn most effectively. The important thing IMO is to be able to keep an open mind on HOW something can beneficial and then decide if it can be applied to oneself. If we all just default to potentially poopoo-ing on ideas and perspectives (not you!) that don't fit with our preferences and beliefs, the world would have never made it out of the Stone Age.
 
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