Is there an angle?

R

ridingthenine21

Registered
I know that everyone thinks that the IPT is going to save pool and bring it into mainstream America, but how many of you guys think that there is something fishy about the whole business? Does Trudeau play pool at all? Is he just interested because he thinks he can make money from tv ratings? Why would a guy who certainly has shady credentials (to say the least) be so gung-ho about getting pool recognized? I am not arguing that other tournaments pay little to nothing, and I am sure the IPT will help pool in some way. I just have to wonder, does this guy have an angle? Just curious...
 
ridingthenine21 said:
I know that everyone thinks that the IPT is going to save pool and bring it into mainstream America, but how many of you guys think that there is something fishy about the whole business? Does Trudeau play pool at all? Is he just interested because he thinks he can make money from tv ratings? Why would a guy who certainly has shady credentials (to say the least) be so gung-ho about getting pool recognized? I am not arguing that other tournaments pay little to nothing, and I am sure the IPT will help pool in some way. I just have to wonder, does this guy have an angle? Just curious...
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The answer to those questions require a long essay....

And they've all ben posted here in these threads many times.

Read a few of the threads and you'll pick most of it up.
 
Maybe it just makes him feel good.

Maybe he does it for a tax write off.

Maybe he does it to aggravate the Feds.

Maybe he does it to help pool.

Maybe he does it because he can.

Why does Oprah give away millions every week?

More important - why doesn't Oprah give money to pool players?

Jake
 
well hes good buddies with mike seigel, i mean im sure he thinks hes going to make money at it or he wouldnt do it. Hes worth something like a billion isnt he? the money hes dropping on this is chump change.......and hes getting promotional miles out of it for his other enterprises, its probably a case of tremendous upside if it works and very little downside other than some $$ if it doesnt.
 
ridingthenine21 said:
I know that everyone thinks that the IPT is going to save pool and bring it into mainstream America, but how many of you guys think that there is something fishy about the whole business? Does Trudeau play pool at all? Is he just interested because he thinks he can make money from tv ratings? Why would a guy who certainly has shady credentials (to say the least) be so gung-ho about getting pool recognized? I am not arguing that other tournaments pay little to nothing, and I am sure the IPT will help pool in some way. I just have to wonder, does this guy have an angle? Just curious...
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Pool is one of the largest participation sports in the world. I don't remember what the numbers are, as far as people playing regularly, but they are very large.

Pool is an untapped market right now. With so many people playing pool there should be alot of interest if it is presented in manner that would appeal to the general population. Just look at the explosion of poker over the last few years. Furthermore the personalities available in the pool world are enough to keep people watching.

Simply put, Trudeau is doing this to make money. If he succeeds we will have a great tour and great exposure. Personally I don't care what his intentions are as long as pool players are making between six and seven figure salaries (through winnings of course).

I don't see how any of this is fishy. I understand concerns about how the tour is being run (selection, qualifiers, date clashes etc.), but I don't see where there is a conspiracy.
 
and pool players have never been to prison or scammed anybody either.<-- note the sarcastic font

The facts are:
- KT is putting the money up
- KT doesn't do anything unless he thinks he can make money at it
- He's delivered so far
- it's not exactly easy for him to dissapear into the night like some shady little Tournament Director with all the money since he has such a high profile and it's his money he's putting up in the first place.

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that pool players don't trust anybody. Must come from looking over thier shoulder for the next hustler to come by.

Right now, I'm waiting to see, He's already given away more money than I have lying around.

And why doesn't Operah give money to pool players? That's a good question, one inquiring minds would like to know. perhaps we should contact her.
 
Yes he plays and loves pool, but of course he is not doing this for that alone, thank the lord. Every one who goes into something like this has an angle, it's called a challenge, lets make lots of money and become famous and have fun. Pool is like the distressed house in a good neighborhood, the upside potential for advertising and product sales for pool is fragmented and mostly untapped, just look at how much the APA makes and how many members pay yearly fees.

If his calculated risk is even remotely successful he will not only make lots of money, he will gain something he wants just as much, fame and power. This is not a small undertaking, this is huge and he is taking it very serious which is good, I wouldn't want him to think of this as just fun or a pool a handout.

All I can keep imagining is something akin to the USGA and have all pool players paying a yearly IPT membership that entitles them to enter all kinds of local and regional IPT tournaments, with a handicapping system for non professionals.

First the USA, but if he can really pull this off, your looking at a world wide membership that could approach a million players paying $10-30 a year, add in a few high profile advertisers and product sales and you could easily be looking at over 60+ million gross.

The reason pool has never got to this level is the lack of organization and a mis mash of promoters and the lack of a well defined tour of professionals. And of course nobody has had the billiard balls or money to try something like this:D

So yes he loves pool, but who wouldn't want to do what they love and make money and have a bit of celebrity as well? This is not just some fly by night opporation or ponzi scam. You don't hire William Morris or a top dollar production crew, and put up 20 million for a fly by night scam, much less expensive ways to do that. He's looking for legs on this one, and also sees a challenge to do something nobody else could do and many still say can't be done.

Some fame, some fortune, and something you love.
It's everyones dream to do something you love and make money doing it!
 
I suspect he needs a way to advertise his products since he is no longer allowed to do infomercials. He's said he is not accepting any other corporate sponsors other than Natural Cures. If he can mainstream pool and get it on tv, he'll sell more stuff that the FCC won't otherwise let him advertise. He may even make money off of pool. I hope it works because it would be great for the billiard industry as a whole.
 
Vicki said:
I suspect he needs a way to advertise his products since he is no longer allowed to do infomercials. He's said he is not accepting any other corporate sponsors other than Natural Cures. If he can mainstream pool and get it on tv, he'll sell more stuff that the FCC won't otherwise let him advertise. He may even make money off of pool. I hope it works because it would be great for the billiard industry as a whole.
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How? To be associated with products the government has whacked with the banstick? If he's not allowed to run infomercials, why would you think he would be allowed to use the TV coverage of the IPT to promote his book? How is that any different, in the grand scheme?

From what I've read about KT's history and the complaints about the whole Natural Cures bit - it sounds to me like his 'angle' is just to try and sell more of these books. In fact, if you hit the IPT website and look at the 'job openings', you'll find most of them aren't for the IPT, but for that *and* his Natural Cures biz. It seems that if you want to work for the IPT, you have to help sell snake oil as well. Seems sketchy to me.
 
Well, he is allowed to run infomercials to sell his book, and they are on all the time, just can't sell products related to the book. While I agree he will sell books due to the IPT marketing, it's not the reason the IPT was started.

You don't throw 20+ million at a pool tour when it's a proven method to just buy airtime around the world to sell the book, (easier, and works well) infomercials work, otherwise you wouldn't see so many.

The effort and expense he has shown clearly shows his commitment to try to make a viable market for the IPT, he sees a market for pool, pool products and memberships. It's got serious upside potential that could make the somewhere around 50 million* he made on the book look small.

Also he didn't start spending all this money on production crews, web engineers, database managers and public relation firms before the IPT, you simply don't need all that expense to push natural cures, it's overkill. All this expense, and it's a huge expense, is mostly being positioned around the IPT. Don't forget his past involvement in the UK Golf Channel that sells golf products, I have no idea but I would think he made more with that then the books as well.
 
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ScottW said:
How? To be associated with products the government has whacked with the banstick? If he's not allowed to run infomercials, why would you think he would be allowed to use the TV coverage of the IPT to promote his book? How is that any different, in the grand scheme?

From what I've read about KT's history and the complaints about the whole Natural Cures bit - it sounds to me like his 'angle' is just to try and sell more of these books. In fact, if you hit the IPT website and look at the 'job openings', you'll find most of them aren't for the IPT, but for that *and* his Natural Cures biz. It seems that if you want to work for the IPT, you have to help sell snake oil as well. Seems sketchy to me.
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I think you're asking me how the billiard industry would benefit from trudeau's angle of selling more books?

The IPT would need to be successful in order for him to promote his book through Natural Cures' sponsorship of the IPT. If the IPT is successful, then pool will benefit in obvious ways. I didn't say I thought he'd have 30 second commercials, but I bet he'll surely have Natural Cures built into the set.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that Trudeau seems like the scum of the earth, and the book is, as you very well said, snake oil. However, I've been in the business of pool for a very long time and I've seen more than a few good men starve and struggle. Having a wealthier industry would benefit everyone IMO.

Vicki
 
ridingthenine21 said:
Oprah has never been to prison or scammed anyone AFAIK.
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Evidently you didn't watch the biography of Oprah. An angel she was not.

And only because she has a lot of money and very good lawyers did she not lose the civil suit brought against her by the cattlemen's association. All because she said she is not going to eat beef.

Jake
 
SlimShafty said:
Well, he is allowed to run infomercials to sell his book,
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You're right. I thought he was banned from infomercials for the book, but the book, it turns out, is protected by the 1st ammendment. I still think the tours purpose is to promote the book. Several magazines will not advertise it and there are a bunch of stores that will not carry it. With all the negativity surrounding trudeau and the book he needs some positive advertising.

See the FTC's 2004 report here: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/09/trudeaucoral.htm

I'd be interested in knowing where you got your numbers ($20M for the tour and $5M on the book). From everything I've heard, the book has been his biggest money maker to date. Given his considerable wealth, I think that $5M seems a little low. He has been fined almost that much by the FTC for false advertising.

VC
 
I understand that KT had planned this tour for about 5 years before he started it. And he has financed it through 2008. So besides money a lot of thinking and preparation has gone into this venture.

It will be interesting to watch the events unfold. And how he plans on turning it into a profitable venture.

Right now the IPT is being sponsored by Natural Cures and that is why you see that name on the Diamond Tables. But I suspect that soon he will have other sponsors on board. Companies willing to pay handsomely to have their name associated with the IPT or IPT players.

His book has sold 5 million copies but it also brings people to his website where they sign up for his monthly newsletter at $6 to $10 per month.

Perhaps he will start an e-mail newsletter for pool with articles by the players.

I am sure that he will be selling video of the players. In fact the film of the KOH should be on the site pretty soon.

The next year or two should be interesting. At least we will have something to talk about.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
I understand that KT had planned this tour for about 5 years before he started it. And he has financed it through 2008.
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Wondering how you know that KT has financed the tour through 2008. Have you seen the IPT's balance sheet?
 
Vicki said:
I'd be interested in knowing where you got your numbers ($20M for the tour and $5M on the book). From everything I've heard, the book has been his biggest money maker to date. Given his considerable wealth, I think that $5M seems a little low. He has been fined almost that much by the FTC for false advertising.

VC
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Correct, the $5 was a typo I forgot the 0, I fixed it, I was guessing on the amount of around $50 million....could be low, but it's close. I just think he may have made more with the Golf Channel UK and Golf TV, both very successful, but who knows. And you can easily figure out with the tournaments and cost of production of said tournaments he's looking at spending way over 12 million in just the first year.

All I know is he's just not going to throw 20+ million at a pool tour just to try to sell his books, the risks involved in this tour would be a poor choice. Everyone in world knows the pitfalls of pool and how hard it's going to be to market, he could easily market cures on TV or other outlets that would be ffar better then pool. Half hour infomercials are far more effective then just adds placed in a pool tournament.

Plus like I said, nobody hires that kind of production crew with that many cameras and all the PR just to market a side product, he could have done this tour for half the cost, heck the man is obsessed about getting the right kind of cloth for heaven sake, if he was just using this to sell books you think he would give piss about the cloth? Nope make no mistakes about it his intentions are first and foremost to make the IPT successful. Natural Cures is just an advertiser and sponsor of the tour, and in fact I think all the advertising has been very tasteful and not too much in your face, I was really surprised he didn't call the tournament the Natural Cures KOTH. nope he's pushing the IPT, that's pretty clear to me.
 
SlimShafty said:
Yes he plays and loves pool, but of course he is not doing this for that alone, thank the lord. Every one who goes into something like this has an angle, it's called a challenge, lets make lots of money and become famous and have fun. Pool is like the distressed house in a good neighborhood, the upside potential for advertising and product sales for pool is fragmented and mostly untapped, just look at how much the APA makes and how many members pay yearly fees.

If his calculated risk is even remotely successful he will not only make lots of money, he will gain something he wants just as much, fame and power. This is not a small undertaking, this is huge and he is taking it very serious which is good, I wouldn't want him to think of this as just fun or a pool a handout.

All I can keep imagining is something akin to the USGA and have all pool players paying a yearly IPT membership that entitles them to enter all kinds of local and regional IPT tournaments, with a handicapping system for non professionals.

First the USA, but if he can really pull this off, your looking at a world wide membership that could approach a million players paying $10-30 a year, add in a few high profile advertisers and product sales and you could easily be looking at over 60+ million gross.

The reason pool has never got to this level is the lack of organization and a mis mash of promoters and the lack of a well defined tour of professionals. And of course nobody has had the billiard balls or money to try something like this:D

So yes he loves pool, but who wouldn't want to do what they love and make money and have a bit of celebrity as well? This is not just some fly by night opporation or ponzi scam. You don't hire William Morris or a top dollar production crew, and put up 20 million for a fly by night scam, much less expensive ways to do that. He's looking for legs on this one, and also sees a challenge to do something nobody else could do and many still say can't be done.

Some fame, some fortune, and something you love.
It's everyones dream to do something you love and make money doing it!
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Well said Slim Shafty,
The foremost reason that I am so optimistic about the IPT, is that it seems to be a comprehensive business plan that requires long term commitment to get it off the ground.

I believe he is trying to build a business akin to the WWE with, but with more externality opportunities for leveraging, such as table, cue, ball sales etc, pool venues, qualification events and leagues.

It will take a few years to build these networks and begin to maximize revenue, but if he even looks like breaking even after the first couple of years, then I'd reckon he'd have no problem finding investors who would realize the potential for expanding these networks or positive externalities.

Imagine a worldwide franchise of 1,000 or 10,000 accredited IPT Pool Clubs across the world that receive promotion every time there is an IPT event broadcast. Much like the way McDonalds can create efficient mass marketing to promote local outlets. Each one of these pool franchises could contribute 50-100k a year to be an accredited venue.

Now I don't know the figures, but the potential for this and other leveraging opportunities appears mind-boggling to me.

It's this potential for growth that makes me feel that IPT has a very strong commitment and a long term plan. I just hope the first couple of years make the required targets and that the heavy hand of government doesn't interfere.
 
sjm said:
Wondering how you know that KT has financed the tour through 2008. Have you seen the IPT's balance sheet?
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From his first CD.

But perhaps financed is the wrong word. Planned the events with projected costs is most likely more correct. And a person worth a few Billion dollars I believe will have the money to follow through.

Whether he actually set asside the funds in a separate IPT account I have no idea.

Considering that if my net worth is 1 million dollars (which it isn't) and KT's net worth is 1 billion dollars then he can spend a thousand dollars like I spend 1 dollar. And if my net worth is only 100,000 then he can spend $1,000 like I spend 10¢.

It must be nice to be really rich.

Jake
 
Trudeau wouldnt be doing this if he didnt think he could make money off it.

To me though, their could be to things that could be considered pleasent side effects from the IPT.

1. Pool gets huge!
2. Trudeau makes more Money!

Either way if they both happen it will be a success.
 
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