Is there an Engineer in the house???

The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
I recently acquired a 9ft Brunswick and I am just beginning my renovations to fit it into my basement... The Carpet and Tile is removed and I am about to start surfacing the concrete to prep the floor for some Hi Ref Epoxy... I need to flow the entire floor at once so I have to remove a lolly column...

To begin with my house is Fisk trussed so there are no point loads in the house. The lolly is only supporting the floor system for the part of the living and dining rooms..... There are about 8 feet of interior walls as well as the floor system above... The flooring is standard osb with nail down hardwood over half and osb with ceramic tile over the other half.

The floor joists are 2x10 on 16 inch centers... They are longer on one span than the other as is indicated by the hanger beam placement below...

The area is rectangular 14 feet by 24.5 feet... There is a hanger beam spanning the 14ft that is made of 3 2x12s... The hanger beam is not centered... it is 11.25 off one bearing wall and 13.25 off the other bearing wall measured longways... The lolly beam is 9.25 foot from the outside wall measured across the room on the 14ft span...

Here is the lolly.... lolly.jpg get-attachment.aspx.jpg

I am trying to determine if I can safely move the lolly 4.5 ft so I have a clear area of 24.5x14... I wouldn't even worry about the move except one of the 2x12s that make up the hanger beam appears spliced over the lolly... The other end of the house the splices are not above the lolly so I am not sure if this is coincidence or not.... I was considering a microlam as an assist until I realized I had a hanger beam and not a support beam....

If anyone has a clue as to how to figure the floor loads and if I am good to go... help would be appreciated... Sadly I knew how to do it about 12 years ago but those brain cells apparently were weaker than Crown Royal.....
 
The best bet would be to install LVL beams. If you call a Ga Pacific rep he can give you the specificatiuons that you need. I did this to my house in 3different locations. I did use a contractor due to insurance reasons.
 
Flitch plate, or beam will hold everything up. It's almost a do it yourself job if you have moderate const. experience. Talk to your building inspector about it, get a permit. The steel manufacturer will guide you. I have removed a couple lolly columns myself. The last time I used 2 pcs of 1/4 inch x 8 or 10 inch steel plate and made a wood sandwich, bolting through the wood with the steel on both sides. 14 Foot span is no problem for the steel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flitch_beam

Seriously, do not f around with this, get the help you need, It is very doable. Get a couple quotes from some contractors. It is a one day job at most.
gl with your project
steven
 
You mean you have "Fink" trusses? I also see two splices like Mitch said. Maybe there are three splices?

Ceramic tile is heavy. A ballpark would be 15 to 20 pounds psf for the tile and about 7 psf for the hardwood floor. Two 11.25 LVLs would be a minimum beam at 14 feet without this extra weight. Add the weight of the wall above and you can find your dead load for the guy at the lumber yard. He can come up with a number from the supplier.

If you replace the 2x12s, the LVLs are thicker (1.75 inches) and you will need to trim the length of the floor joists for fit. Tear it up! :grin:

Best,
Mike
 
Ack... I see the color change now in the picture so at least 2 splices...... Hmmm... Thanks for the replies so far... I have close to 8 inches from the bottom of the beam to the drywall where they created an enclosure for the air return... I wonder if an H beam could be placed under the hanger beam to support it and be able to span 14ft without breaking the bank...

I will definitely see about getting an inspector out asap to see about permits and direction...

I figured some of our community had been thru this before so I had to ask.... Once again thanks for the feedback guys...

I would say that sadly I cannot start for a week... I am currently looking out the hotel window at the Chesapeake convention center =) Let the US Open begin.................
 
My money is on three splices in the middle. Looks like the two outer most boards were added at a later date, if I had to guess.
 
I am NOT an engineer and do not know if this would work for you but I had a friend once who solved a pole problem by replacing it with an arch that funneled the load out to two posts on the edges of the room.
 
Something else to consider, but first this:

I am currently looking to remove two lollies in my already done rec room. :mad: Yeah, I know.

I, too, had splices above one of the lollies and the engineer said that while some people would use Flitch plates on this, he said it's a definite no-no. He said that the Flitch plates are supposed to assist existing wood beams but if there are splices, you are now asking the Flitch plates to do all of the work and that's bad news from an engineering standpoint.

Here's what else to consider.

If you were to simply move a lolly a few feet (though with the aforementioned splices, I no longer think that's an option) you need to consider the thickness of the floor concrete where you intend to move it. The engineer pointed out that the areas where lollies are installed typically have thicker footings poured for weight bearing purposes. If you were to move a lolly to where the concrete is not as thick, it could be a problem.

As was mentioned by another poster, and since you have splices, I think replacing your wood beams with the LAM-beams (LVL) would be the way to go. But an engineer (or other reliable authority) should do the calculations on the dimensions you'll need.

Good luck with your project.

Best,
Brian kc
 
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I would replace the existing 2x12 beam with an LVL beam. Figure heavy on the load and put in a stronger beam than you will need.

You will have to build temporary support walls along both sides of your existing beam before you remove it. Before you start, you can slightly jack up your beam at the support column to ensure its removal and to make sure the temporary walls are solid and eliminate any movement when the post is removed.

Any change could crack grout lines and/or buckle hardwood flooring. When you remove the column, you must also support the beam itself. It will be attached to the subfloor and any sudden twisting could push fasteners up through the upper floor. After upward pressure is removed from the beam, you can use a sawzall to cut the nails and screws on the top of the beam.

I have jacked up historical 3 story houses and never hardly cracked any plaster. One simple rule...if you jack something up, make sure the jack/support is solid and there is a backup support post in case it fails. I have had posts shatter and blocking move and crush. It happens faster than than a nine ball break. One step at a time.

Best,
Mike
 
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