I have been playing pool for quite a while and i have never ever seen anyone do what i saw this lady do...a while ago my APA nine ball team qualified for the TRICUP... well we were doing really well. One of our team mates was playing a woman who was ranked a 3 or 4 here is what she did... the 4 ball was the ball in play it was about a ball width from the bottom rail. The woman had ball in hand but had no place to play the 4 so a safety was her only option. the best shot was to bump the 4 to the bottom rail leaving the cue against the four... a real soft stroke is needed to do this not many 3's have developed this type of stroke..I guess this lady knew she didnt have a soft enough stroke to play the shot so this is what she did She put her cuestick on the table slid it so that the tip of the cuestick was a close to the cue ball as she could without touching it. she then walked up toward the shaft put both hands on the shaft and lifted the shaft upward...when she lifted the shaft up ward the tip made contact with the cueball sending it softly into the 4 ball thus parking the 4 ball against the bottom rail with the cue ball snug against it..My mouth droped for two reasons one i had never seen that done and the fact that a 3 could come up with an idea like that..we just looked at each other and everyone one the team turns to me i guess since i have more pool knowledge than most and all i could say was.."I have no clue if that is legal or not"
Is this a legal shot in pool
- Thread starter quitecoolguy
- Start date
The safety your talking about is on Bob Byrne's Gamebreakers. And as long as she hit it with the tip it sounds legal. And yes I use that type of a safety. The only question is placing the cue on the table, and grabing the shaft with both hands.
Me I put the tip under the ball (also choke up a little and switch hands to opisite sided), and pop it it, up (lift it) and make a legal hit using my cue tip.
And yes it does piss folks off, but I haven't ever been called on it being a foul...
Pete
Me I put the tip under the ball (also choke up a little and switch hands to opisite sided), and pop it it, up (lift it) and make a legal hit using my cue tip.
And yes it does piss folks off, but I haven't ever been called on it being a foul...
Pete
An older player in my area, who plays quite well btw, showed me that shot once. My first question was "yeah, but would you actually do that in a tournament." He said yes, but that doesn't mean he would've gotten away with it. Even with rulebook in hand, though, I bet a lot of TD's wouldn't know how to call that one; in that case, I would think the call would have to go to the shooter.
Here is a link to a thread talking about this type of shot and some variations.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=29965
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=29965
I would challenge the fact that she laid the cue on the table. Most rules state that you cannot lay the cue on the table during a game without at least one hand touching it.
The shot you are talking about is otherwise legal as long as the tip hit the ball and not the ferrule.
The shot you are talking about is otherwise legal as long as the tip hit the ball and not the ferrule.
TheBook said:
The rule is about aiming marks and aids :
3.42 DEVICES
Players are not allowed to use a ball, the triangle or any other width-measuring device to see if the cue ball or an object ball would travel through a gap, etc. Only the cue stick may be used as an aid to judge gaps or as an aid to aligning a shot., so long as the cue is held by the hand. To do so otherwise is a foul and unsportsmanlike conduct. (Also see Rules 1.3, 1.4 and 2.15)
I would think that the person who laid their cue down and let go would not be in violation of this rule unless they walked around to look at it from another angle (checking to see if the tip was under the bulge of the ball for example). If they put the cue down and went to get a drink of water then there would be no foul, imo. Putting the cue down one way, then removing your hands to re-grip it another way would not seem to me to be an infraction.
Dave
is the reason your not allowed to lay the cue on the table is because you could measure or line up a shot with it, and walk around the table to look at the line?
I've heard that somewhere in the BCA rules it says a legal hit has to be done with a "normal forward stroke" or something like that (I think Bob Jewett is the one who has brought up this rule in previous threads). Meaning that an upward swipe of the tip with virtually no forward movement of the cue is not a legal hit, even though it's the tip that contacts and moves the cue ball.
But I don't have the BCA rules in front of me, so I'll wait for a better authority on rules to confirm or refute what I just said.
-Andrew
But I don't have the BCA rules in front of me, so I'll wait for a better authority on rules to confirm or refute what I just said.
-Andrew
I've heard that somewhere in the BCA rules it says a legal hit has to be done with a "normal forward stroke" or something like that (I think Bob Jewett is the one who has brought up this rule in previous threads). Meaning that an upward swipe of the tip with virtually no forward movement of the cue is not a legal hit, even though it's the tip that contacts and moves the cue ball.
The shot is 100% legal. I use the shot all the time when playing one pocket and the cue ball gets behind one ball and both players are just nudging it. The rules only state that you cannot rest the cue on the table without at least one hand on it and that only the tip may contact the cue ball. The forward stroke defense wouldnt work because masse shots are legal and you arent going forward in your stroke but downwards.
The shot is 100% legal. I use the shot all the time when playing one pocket and the cue ball gets behind one ball and both players are just nudging it. The rules only state that you cannot rest the cue on the table without at least one hand on it and that only the tip may contact the cue ball. The forward stroke defense wouldnt work because masse shots are legal and you arent going forward in your stroke but downwards.
quitecoolguy said:
According to Robert Byrnes book of trick shots, it is not a normal stroke and hence illegal. Now it is an older book, but I believe the rule states something similar to the fact that if it is not completed by way of a normal stroke it is an illegal stroke.
Can anyone say definitivly what the APA rules are regarding placing the cue on the table with no hands?
Does it matter if there is a break?
What about using bridges, do you need a hand on each or can you rest the bridge?
I had a player go looking for a bridge for like 5 minutes and he left his cue on the table the whole time, would that be a foul?
Does it matter if there is a break?
What about using bridges, do you need a hand on each or can you rest the bridge?
I had a player go looking for a bridge for like 5 minutes and he left his cue on the table the whole time, would that be a foul?
Shot
The shot is illegal. Laying the cue on the table, releasing it, and regripping it up by the shaft is an infraction of the rule stating that you must have a hand on the cue at all times when shooting.
Although tricky, the upward stroke also violates the 'normal forward stroke' motion, and many players actually end up 'scooping' the cue ball, which is also illegal. A masse' shot has some forward motion to it, just as jump shots
do, even though the cue is angled when striking the cue ball.
The shot is illegal. Laying the cue on the table, releasing it, and regripping it up by the shaft is an infraction of the rule stating that you must have a hand on the cue at all times when shooting.
Although tricky, the upward stroke also violates the 'normal forward stroke' motion, and many players actually end up 'scooping' the cue ball, which is also illegal. A masse' shot has some forward motion to it, just as jump shots
do, even though the cue is angled when striking the cue ball.
This shot is absolutely legal. I have seen it used during tournament play with a referee as a judge. It would seem an SL4 new something you didn't. As far as placing the cue on the table, it is her playing cue and as long as she doesn't contact a ball on the table there is no foul. But since it is the APA anyways, there is no foul even if she did.quitecoolguy said:
I'm pretty sure that the BCA issued a specific ruling on this shot, and that ruling was that the shot is illegal because a shot must be made with a forward motion of the cue stick.PoolFool said:
So, "absolutely legal" isn't true. Maybe it is OK in the APA, which doesn't accept the World Standardized Rules (BCA/WPA).
My own feeling is that the shot should not be legal.
The shot is definitly illegal in the APA.
If she laid the cue on the table and took both hands off the cue it is a foul. Plain and simple. I would be more than happy to give you the exact rule, but you'll better remember it if you look it up.
A legal version is found on Bert Kinister's "$100 tape" that one is legal no matter how you slice it.
If she laid the cue on the table and took both hands off the cue it is a foul. Plain and simple. I would be more than happy to give you the exact rule, but you'll better remember it if you look it up.
A legal version is found on Bert Kinister's "$100 tape" that one is legal no matter how you slice it.
I would be willing to bet you cannot find any APA rule that covers what constitutes a legal stroke, whether it's forward motion of the tip, 2 hands on the cue, etc.. I have been playing APA since 1999 and have never seen a rule covering it. Therefore, the motion you are describing is a legal shot as long as a ball goes to the rail and you don't double hit the cueball. Maybe your league has some bylaws regarding that type of shot? I know mine does not.
In VNEA, you have to make a forward motion (not up and down) of the tip to be a legal shot. Therefore, in VNEA, it is a foul.
No idea on BCA.
my $0.02
In VNEA, you have to make a forward motion (not up and down) of the tip to be a legal shot. Therefore, in VNEA, it is a foul.
No idea on BCA.
my $0.02
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This in fact is an illegal shot by nature that she left her cue on the table and removed both of her hands.
You are not allowed to do that, so she actually fouled before she ever got to the shot.
You are not allowed to do that, so she actually fouled before she ever got to the shot.