Don't act astonished or condescending, you're the one who posted half a dozen times about it dude.
Is This a Legal Shot?
- Thread starter nobcitypool
- Start date
Don't act astonished or condescending, you're the one who posted half a dozen times about it dude.
That's good and all but that won't stop it.
Some guys in the leagues just want to call fouls left and right on any shot.
Hell I know one guy who would probably call a bad hit on a break shot if he could find a way.
For those who have pretty good close-ball technique, here is a proposition bet related to the OP. The 1 ball is on the head spot. The 2 and 3 are spread slightly from the "all touching" diamond position so the cue ball can hit the 1 ball without hitting the 2 or 3. The cue ball is back from the 1 ball by half an inch or an inch depending on how badly the client hits the ball.The proposition is to make the 1 ball hit the far end rail without moving the 2 or 3 with the cue ball.
![CropperCapture[94].png](https://forums.azbilliards.com/data/attachments/265/265269-d5660ceb62a19c1f423995344a9327cb.jpg "CropperCapture[94].png")
We have Willie Jopling (Bill Marshall) to thank for this shot which was said to be a favorite of Lassiter's.
We have Willie Jopling (Bill Marshall) to thank for this shot which was said to be a favorite of Lassiter's.
Use a tiny jump stoke. If you hit it dead on, cue ball should go right back without hittng the other 2.
It is a foul.
This following does not resolve the issue but I have seen this done in leagues.
Lowest level players are unofficially allowed to double hit when cb and
ob a very close together. The thinking is why take the time to explain
and argue a foul in a match where the high run is two and most likely
will not determine the outcome of a game.
Mid level players are warned that what they are preparing to do is a foul.
If they proceed a foul is called and they are instructed to figure out why
on their own time.
Upper level players are held to the highest standard. When an upper level
player has to adjust his shot to avoid a foul it is an excellent opportunity
to explain to lower level players why the shot was adjusted.
Joe
This following does not resolve the issue but I have seen this done in leagues.
Lowest level players are unofficially allowed to double hit when cb and
ob a very close together. The thinking is why take the time to explain
and argue a foul in a match where the high run is two and most likely
will not determine the outcome of a game.
Mid level players are warned that what they are preparing to do is a foul.
If they proceed a foul is called and they are instructed to figure out why
on their own time.
Upper level players are held to the highest standard. When an upper level
player has to adjust his shot to avoid a foul it is an excellent opportunity
to explain to lower level players why the shot was adjusted.
Joe
I must have extraordinary close-ball technique because I did it on my first try.
Wing balls were set up with about 1/8" clearance from the CB on either side at the ball contact position and CB was placed about 3/8" from the 1-ball. Made the end rail and halfway back again. Just a short, crisp nip draw with an immediate pull back of the cue is all that is required.
I have to admit I practice these close shots all the time, maybe more than any other drill. While less impressive than firing in long straight-ins shots, I feel this skill is an extremely valuable one to develop, and is useful for a wide variety of situations that occur at the table.
Another fun one is to place an OB on the spot and the CB a chalk distance behind it. Draw the CB back to the near end rail and send the OB up to the far end rail and all the way back to hit the CB. Not all that hard with a little practice.
OK, now go for a quarter inch.I must have extraordinary close-ball technique because I did it on my first try.
Wing balls were set up with about 1/8" clearance from the CB on either side at the ball contact position and CB was placed about 3/8" from the 1-ball. ..
Already tried. No go so far, but I already knew I couldn't draw the ball back from that distance. If I can get that down, though, I'm setting the camera up so I can capture it.
Didn't Lassiter have a trick where he used the rail to stop the forward progress of his right arm? I saw somewhere that somebody does it that way. Me, I just freehand it without a special "nip" bridge, just a compact loop bridge.
When I first learned to draw the ball the only way I could get it to come back was to do a nip draw, so that's why I am OK with that technique. I actually thought you had to pull the cue back sharply to get the ball to come back. Took me years to learn how to draw the ball with a full stroke. Don't know what happened, just one day (and about a thousand miscues later) I could do it. Never figured out what I was doing differently, it just got easy.
Pool is weird like that. Maybe someday I'll learn to how jump and I won't know why I could never do it all my life.
Bob, one thing that this trick proves is that if you hit the ball right and put backspin on it, no way is it rolling forward after contact with the OB. Only way for that to happen is if you push it with the side of the shaft right after the hit. So, yeah, the video linked in the OP is without doubt a double hit, and therefore, a foul... even though the CB didn't end up traveling to the pocket at the same speed as the object ball.
Buy a jump cue. This plus a reasonable level of skill with the recommended jump technique is all you need to get enough air.
I struggled for years on (thin) slate tables with pro cloth (simonis 860) - could never get enough air to clear a ball. My big mistake ? I was using a regular cue with a soft tip. I knew the jump technique, but couldnt get much air.
Hard tip is the most important aspect I reckon. (short cue also helps ALOT)
I almost got a hard on when my first attempt with a real jump cue (very cheap & nasty it is) resulted in clearing a ball with absolute ease ! (right tool for the job)
I'll try and find a video of my 'banger style' jump shot in action - lol.
Cheers.
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That's the true definition of a push shot. In the APA that's not a foul, but in all other rule formats I believe it is a foul.
Heh, heh! Just did it at 1/4" separation. Took a few tries, but I got the CB barely up to the end rail and back a few inches on my oversize 8 footer. The other balls were barely 1/16" away from the CB at contact, so ZERO forward movement before the draw (maybe 4-5" travel) took over.
Now I wonder what the limit is on this. Bob, how close can you get them and still pull off the shot?
I may try one. Anything that almost gives me a hard on would be a good thing at my age.
I've resisted for long enough, but heck, even Earl uses one when they're legal. I almost pulled the trigger on one at SBE, but later that night I decided to forego dinner and stay and watch the action on the bar boxes. The sound of dozens of jump shots simultaneously rebounding off the slate (and often hitting the floor as well) sent the few strands on the top of my head standing straight up. Seems everybody there had a jump cue and nobody knew how to kick, so they were in constant use. Took something away from the experience for me.
LOL !!!
haha - you may not be able to jump a ball (yet) - but ur good with the funny comments !
Yep - there you go - proof that jumping is easy. (even for bangers) Maybe even easier than kicking.
Now, jumping **accurately** - (keeping balls on the table / making pots) thats another kettle of fish...
I had a look for my jump shot on you tube - sorry - no dice. You have already seen alot of bangers jumping balls anyways - so nothing to be gained from my video...
Cheers.
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That is most certainly a foul in apa. A push shot is legal in apa when the cb and ob are frozen. If they are separated, it is illegal.
Looks like its legal according to the BCA as well ?
"However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball."
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/bca-pool.com/resource/resmgr/imported/Fouls_January2008.pdf
Though its a bit unclear if you may ONLY shoot PARTLY into the frozen ball ?
or can you blast straight into the frozen ball with a full ball hit sending whitey around the table along with said frozen object ball ?
I wish people would(the APA) stop using the wrong terms to describe a shot.
6.8 Push Shot: It is a foul to prolong tip-to-cue-ball contact beyond that seen in normal shots.
I didn't watch the video on my computer to start, must of lost some video quality on my phone. After rewatching the video on my computer I need to restate my opinion. It's not a double hit, but it's a push foul. Not a double hit because the speed of the stroke is slow enough, and the downward angle allow the cue tip to stay in contact the entire time. He prevents the double hit foul by pushing through it creating a different foul.