Is this a real 1-pocket rule or what?

[CreeDo]

Had a (loud) debate on this, and figured you guys would know.

Playing 1 pocket doubles, opponent scratches, so I bring the cue ball to the kitchen,
position it where I want (behind the line), and get down to take my shot.

On a warmup stroke, I tap the cue ball.

My understanding of the rules is, I lose a ball, and the opponent must play the cue ball in position.

They claim there's some special rule that if you foul while you have ball in hand behind the line, they now 'inherit'
your ball in hand, and can move the cue ball wherever they want in the kitchen.

I've never heard of such a thing, but I don't play the game hardly ever. Is this a rule?

 

[Nick B]

Had a (loud) debate on this, and figured you guys would know.

Playing 1 pocket doubles, opponent scratches, so I bring the cue ball to the kitchen,
position it where I want (behind the line), and get down to take my shot.

On a warmup stroke, I tap the cue ball.

My understanding of the rules is, I lose a ball, and the opponent must play the cue ball in position.

They claim there's some special rule that if you foul while you have ball in hand behind the line, they now 'inherit'
your ball in hand, and can move the cue ball wherever they want in the kitchen.

I've never heard of such a thing, but I don't play the game hardly ever. Is this a rule?

I have never seen it but would assume it's like a miscue or any other miss. They play from there. Not aware of special clause.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Had a (loud) debate on this, and figured you guys would know.

Playing 1 pocket doubles, opponent scratches, so I bring the cue ball to the kitchen,
position it where I want (behind the line), and get down to take my shot.

On a warmup stroke, I tap the cue ball.

My understanding of the rules is, I lose a ball, and the opponent must play the cue ball in position.

They claim there's some special rule that if you foul while you have ball in hand behind the line, they now 'inherit'
your ball in hand, and can move the cue ball wherever they want in the kitchen.

I've never heard of such a thing, but I don't play the game hardly ever. Is this a rule?

short answer, no.

long answer, man these guys trying to get one over on you. No way. Opponent's turn, yes. But play it as it lies, no ball in hand.

 

[straightline]

Most certainly bogus. Tell 'em there's no such thing as biker one pocket and ask them to show you the rule.

 

[Bob Jewett]

It has to remain in hand. Put the cue ball in a corner hook. Tap it very lightly. Nasty and not allowed. The cue ball has to be driven over the line to lose "in hand" status.

 

[straightline]

The ball was placed and then tip fouled. That seems in play to me.

 

[CreeDo]

It has to remain in hand. Put the cue ball in a corner hook. Tap it very lightly. Nasty and not allowed. The cue ball has to be driven over the line to lose "in hand" status.

you're saying this is a real rule then? Is it written anywhere? I tried to look it up and found it nowhere online including onepocket.org.

edit: oh I think I was unclear on what you meant here. So you're saying, no foul can occur until after the cue ball crosses the line, specifically to avoid that nasty move? so I don't even get the 1 ball penalty?

 

[MitchAlsup]

Must be some local rule (That is--to shark you and steal the game)

 

[GoldCrown]

Verify rules before you begin (with anyone). Work out the divorce before the marriage.

 

[kingwang]

It has to remain in hand. Put the cue ball in a corner hook. Tap it very lightly. Nasty and not allowed. The cue ball has to be driven over the line to lose "in hand" status.

Funny, two days ago, Thorsten and a couple other guys were talking about this scenario in straight pool and how the ruling would likely be an unsportsmanlike foul and a 15 ball penalty and rerack.

I would think in both one pocket and straight pool, it would come down to intention. OP clearly didn't mean to foul so I would think it's a standard foul. I would think the scenario you mentioned would be unsportsmanlike and a loss of the game.

 

[freds]

Thread 'Straight pool rule question'

Sep 29, 2015

Player A scratches so player B has cueball in hand in the kitchen.

Can player B take an intentional foul by placing the cueball in the jaw of one of the corner pockets in the kitchen and just tapping it so that player A would be hooked on the nub of the pocket?

Seems to me this is contrary to the spirit of the rules, but would it be illegal? If so what would happen if B did that?

• Quatsch83
• Replies: 46
• Forum: Main Forum

WPA 6.11
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head StringWhen the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts isalso behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string beforethat contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head stringor the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rulesof the specific game. If such shot is intentional, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.

Does that apply to one pocket? Depends who is playing.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

the ball stays where its fouled,
the only time its moved by hand is when it has gone in a pocket or off table
thats how we play here anyways

 

[Bob Jewett]

... edit: oh I think I was unclear on what you meant here. So you're saying, no foul can occur until after the cue ball crosses the line, specifically to avoid that nasty move? so I don't even get the 1 ball penalty?

Any tip-to-ball contact with ball in hand is a shot. So, if you just barely nudge the cue ball when it is in hand, you have shot and fouled. And the cue ball remains in hand.

Onepocket.org defers to the World Standardized Rules for items not covered in their rules. Here is what the WSR says about this:

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String ​

When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct. The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game. If such shot is intentional, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.​

 

[soyale]

cue ball to the kitchen,
position it where I want (behind the line), and get down to take my shot.

On a warmup stroke, I tap the cue ball.

did the cue ball pass the head string?

It has to remain in hand. Put the cue ball in a corner hook. Tap it very lightly. Nasty and not allowed. The cue ball has to be driven over the line to lose "in hand" status.

can you elaborate?

OP owes a ball and relinquishes BIH behind the headstring to his opponent?

EDIT: we posted at the same time, see above for bobs explanation

 

[Bob Jewett]

Funny, two days ago, Thorsten and a couple other guys were talking about this scenario in straight pool and how the ruling would likely be an unsportsmanlike foul and a 15 ball penalty and rerack.

There is no reason for a rerack. Lots of times the other player doesn't want a rerack because the table is open. Whether 15 points is appropriate depends on the player and situation. There is no standard penalty for unsporting conduct.

I would think in both one pocket and straight pool, it would come down to intention. OP clearly didn't mean to foul so I would think it's a standard foul. I would think the scenario you mentioned would be unsportsmanlike and a loss of the game.

The thing is, even if the player intentionally played the cheap corner hook safety, there is no real harm done because the other player can just take ball in hand and shoot. I suppose you could say the fouler was trying to pull a fast one, hoping his opponent didn't know the rule, and therefore should lose the game/rack. More probably, he simply didn't know the rule or even had learned the tactic from someone who also didn't know the rule.

 

[CreeDo]

Any tip-to-ball contact with ball in hand is a shot. So, if you just barely nudge the cue ball when it is in hand, you have shot and fouled. And the cue ball remains in hand.

Onepocket.org defers to the World Standardized Rules for items not covered in their rules. Here is what the WSR says about this:

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String ​

When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct. The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game. If such shot is intentional, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.​

So I think I fully understand you now.

I guess I'm still struggling to accept this is the rule, for the following reasons:

• Onepocket.org says: "6.3 Cue ball after a foul: Following either a pocket scratch or the cue ball jumping the table, the incoming player has cue ball in hand. Following any other standard foul, the cue ball is played where it lies."

So, WSR applies for items not covered by their rules. But I'd argue this sitution is covered by their rules - there's only 2 conditions for ball in hand. My shot is not one of them.

• The vast majority of people I've talked to, like 90%, don't play this way, including some longtime 1-pocket players. But I can concede that maybe there's a whole world of pros and high-stakes gamblers who always go by this rule, and I'm just unaware because I'm not in that world.

Also, the rule you quoted seems concerned with hitting an invalid ball, I dunno if this is one you personally wrote but I assume the point of it is to prevent players from shooting backwards in games like 14.1 and 8-ball. I'd argue that if you or the other BCA/WPA rule authors didn't have one pocket in mind, and never mention it (while all the other common games do get mentioned)... maybe it shouldn't apply?

 

[CreeDo]

did the cue ball pass the head string?


can you elaborate?

OP owes a ball and relinquishes BIH behind the headstring to his opponent?

EDIT: we posted at the same time, see above for bobs explanation

For the record, I have no idea if my cue ball passed the head string. I positioned it close to the head string, but made no special effort to be right at the bleeding edge of the head string. So did my tap that moved it maybe 3 millimeters put it in play or not?

If it did, does it matter?

According to Bob, if my nudge put it over the line, the opponent must play it as it lies, but if it didn't, then they get ball in hand in the kitchen.

 

[soyale]

For the record, I have no idea if my cue ball passed the head string. I positioned it close to the head string, but made no special effort to be right at the bleeding edge of the head string. So did my tap that moved it maybe 3 millimeters put it in play or not?

If it did, does it matter?

According to Bob, if my nudge put it over the line, the opponent must play it as it lies, but if it didn't, then they get ball in hand in the kitchen.

that is my understanding of it as well. either way you owe a ball

 

[iusedtoberich]

I've never heard of this to be a BIH foul, and only a regular "play it where it is foul and owe a ball".

I'm surprised Bob has it as a BIH foul?

What I do know, is one pocket players don't play anything by "standard BCA/WPA" rules. They have their own "gambling set" of one pocket rules, that are fairly universal nationwide.

Anytime I match up in one hole, I have 3 standard rules questions I ask before we start, that do vary from spot to spot:
1) is an OB off the table a foul?
2) are we going by the edge of the ball or the center of the ball on the headstring?
3) Is 3 fouls a loss of game?

 

[bbb]

Any tip-to-ball contact with ball in hand is a shot. So, if you just barely nudge the cue ball when it is in hand, you have shot and fouled. And the cue ball remains in hand.

Onepocket.org defers to the World Standardized Rules for items not covered in their rules. Here is what the WSR says about this:

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String ​

When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct. The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game. If such shot is intentional, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.​

this situation is when you are trying to hit a ball thats in the kitchen
and the rules for a legal hit on that ball
in this situation there would be a ball on the spot at least and so the intent is not to hit a ball thats in the kitchen
what if there were NO balls in the kitchen and the same thing happened
you telling me the incoming player would have ball in hand
i think not in onepocket bob
but you are the expert