Is this Legal?

D

DeadStrokeMan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sometimes I can't reach the shot. Rather than using the 'rake' - I lay my cue down on the table ... in line with the shot .... walk around the table - carefully pick up my cue and stroke the shot in.

I've been called on this in matches and rarely do it. I supprises people that I can make the shot - its really rather simple ..just stroke it straight and trust where you placed the cue :)

My question is: IS IT LEGAL? If not - why not?
 

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No, it's not legal. You are not allowed to place your cue down on the table and let go of it as a means of establishing an aim. I'm sure one of our rules scholars will chime in with the rule itself.

Infractions of this rule usually involve lining up combination shots.
 
You are not allowed to mark the table, but I can't see why anyone would say that this aiming method is illegal.

You are not trying to measure any gap or space between balls with it, so there shouldn't be any prob.

Dave
 
It is illegal because you are taking your hand off the cue and using it as an aiming aide in this way...you can not take your hand off the cue is my understanding...same way you can't adjust the position of the cue ball with the tip of your cue with ball in hand. You can use the side of the cue is all. And also you can not mark the felt or the rail in any way, shape or form to assist aiming.

Shorty
 
Shorty said:
It is illegal because you are taking your hand off the cue and using it as an aiming aide in this way...you can not take your hand off the cue is my understanding...same way you can't adjust the position of the cue ball with the tip of your cue with ball in hand. You can use the side of the cue is all. And also you can not mark the felt or the rail in any way, shape or form to assist aiming.

Shorty
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Actually "using the cue to aim" is not the stated purpose. Its simply placing it such that when I walk around I can pick it up from its position and stroke it in.

I keep hearing about this being illegal - and I don't dispute the possibility - but can someone show me IN WRITING - ie: the Official (any valid BCA ect.) rules.

There is a way of snagging a mental 'marker' off the back rail (in your mind) and lining up the cue against that - would be nor more illegal than using DOTS in your banking and kick measurements. Someone *bust* me here and show me the Official rule against this.
 
some places I've shot say you are forfeiting the game when you lay your cue on the table,,,it's a symbol/sign that you're conceding the match,,,
 
DeadStrokeMan said:
Actually "using the cue to aim" is not the stated purpose. Its simply placing it such that when I walk around I can pick it up from its position and stroke it in.
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you can't let go of the cue and place it on the table....period.

and i think it stated so to elimate any equivocation of the rule. rodney morris did this(and was not aiming) and was called on it.
 
DeadStrokeMan said:
...I keep hearing about this being illegal - and I don't dispute the possibility - but can someone show me IN WRITING - ie: the Official (any valid BCA ect.) rules.

There is a way of snagging a mental 'marker' off the back rail (in your mind) and lining up the cue against that - would be nor more illegal than using DOTS in your banking and kick measurements. Someone *bust* me here and show me the Official rule against this.
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Not trying to "bust" you, but the BCA rule 3.42 - DEVICES says "Players are not allowed to use a ball, the triangle or any other width-measuring device to see if the cue ball or an object ball would travel through a gap, etc. Only the cue stick may be used as an aid to judge gaps or as an aid to aligning a shot., so long as the cue is held by the hand. To do so otherwise is a foul and unsportsmanlike conduct. (Also see Rules 1.3, 1.4 and 2.15)

I think the objection usually raised is based on the interpretation that if you lay the stick on the table and remove your hand, you have committed a foul under this rule.

Walt in VA
 
bruin70 said:
you can't let go of the cue and place it on the table....period.

and i think it stated so to elimate any equivocation of the rule. rodney morris did this(and was not aiming) and was called on it.
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Ok - how about this - I position the cue ...while holding the butt ..and walk around the table. The 'tip end' is resting upon the table as I walk around (assuming its even possible to hold the butt end while walking around).
 
bruin70 said:
rodney morris did this(and was not aiming) and was called on it.
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Yes, if memory serves, that was in the 2003 World Pool Championships.
 
DeadStrokeMan said:
Sometimes I can't reach the shot. Rather than using the 'rake' - I lay my cue down on the table ... in line with the shot .... walk around the table - carefully pick up my cue and stroke the shot in.

I've been called on this in matches and rarely do it. I supprises people that I can make the shot - its really rather simple ..just stroke it straight and trust where you placed the cue :)

My question is: IS IT LEGAL? If not - why not?
Click to expand...

Howdy,
I does not bother me as long as you do not pick the chalk after u miss your shot and u do not stand around the table when I am shooting and u do not eat potato chips whwn I am shooting.Yes it is legal in my book and these are silly nonsensical rules.Cheers
Vagabond
 
It's fairly obvious you can NOT use the cue stick to line up the shot by laying it on the table, letting go of it and walking around the table.

3.42 DEVICES
Players are not allowed to use a ball, the triangle or any other width-measuring device to see if the cue ball or an object ball would travel through a gap, etc. Only the cue stick may be used as an aid to judge gaps or as an aid to aligning a shot., so long as the cue is held by the hand. To do so otherwise is a foul and unsportsmanlike conduct.
 
I don't know if it's legal or not but I've seen many players lay their cue down on the table and take a break in the middle of a game. Picking the tip up when they get back and shooting, I don't know? I'm not a rule freak. If I win a match, the only way I want to do that is if I outplay my oponent, not because I am smart enough to invoke every rule listed in some book. JMHO.
 
Rickw said:
I don't know if it's legal or not but I've seen many players lay their cue down on the table and take a break in the middle of a game. Picking the tip up when they get back and shooting, I don't know? I'm not a rule freak. If I win a match, the only way I want to do that is if I outplay my oponent, not because I am smart enough to invoke every rule listed in some book. JMHO.
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Wow, I forgot about that, Rick. You're right, in some circles, the cue is placed on the table as a means of showing which player has control of the table during a break that occurs during a rack. Clearly, used to denote control of the table, this could hardly be considered an infraction.

I'm also with you on not calling it unless some advantage has accrued to an opponent that has committed the infraction. The most obvious situation where this would be the case is when opponent rests their cue on the felt to line up a shot, and in doing so, creates a visible track in the felt that helps them with the aim on the shot.
 
SJM,

If I came off kind of strong it's because I've been playing in a bar league and some of the players are fanatics about the rules!! It just drives me nuts! I would just hate to win a game just because of some obscure rule. Some of the rules in our league are not even clear. Two lawyers would have a field day debating the veracity of them!!
 
Actually laying your cue on the table and hitting the CB into the OB is legal. I have seen it done and done it, to lock up the CB and the OB on the rail.
 
sjm said:
Yes, if memory serves, that was in the 2003 World Pool Championships.
Click to expand...

Was that the call where he let go for perhaps 1/2 second, his hand moving only a few inches away from the butt ? If that is the incident, my opinion was that the call was a bit anal, no advantage was intended nor gained, it was an innocent movement I thought. Having said that, I believe the original scenario in this thread is a foul.

Dave
 
StormHotRod300 said:
Actually laying your cue on the table and hitting the CB into the OB is legal. I have seen it done and done it, to lock up the CB and the OB on the rail.
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Do you mean the shot where the cue is laid with the tip under the curve of the CB and then lifted quickly to nudge the CB into the OB and OB into the rail? I've seen this done, too, but an APA referee will probably call this a foul on the grounds that it is a double hit.

As a Referee Instructor explained it, if you check the CB after the shot, you will see a line of chalk up the CB, instead of the dot of a stroked shot, indicating continued (illegal) contact between tip/CB.

Walt in VA
 
DaveK said:
Was that the call where he let go for perhaps 1/2 second, his hand moving only a few inches away from the butt ? If that is the incident, my opinion was that the call was a bit anal, no advantage was intended nor gained, it was an innocent movement I thought. Having said that, I believe the original scenario in this thread is a foul.

Dave
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Hey, Koop, hope you're well. Sorry, I don't recall the details, but the match was Pagualyan vs Morris in Stage 2 of the 2003 of the WPC, a double-hill affair in which Morris was eliminated from the event.
 
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