Is This The Most Important Factor In Pool?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok, i have a question, more of an observation i suppose. here goes:

Is the ability to hit the cue ball where you are aiming the #1 factor that determines whether or not you play consistent, high level pool?

seems like, on shorter shorts, you can miss your "aim point" by 1/8" of an inch, and still be successful. however, on longer shots, if you miss the aim point by 1/16" of an inch you will not make the shot.

Mark Wilson says that is pretty much my #1 weakness, i dont hit the cue ball where i think i am, i dont hit it where i aim. the Elephant Ball pretty much shows me evidence of that. i have noticed it is much harder to hit the aim point on draw shots than it is stun and follow shots.

he mentioned players like Efren have a very, very small deviation regarding the aim point and where they actually strike the cue ball. on some of my shots with Mark the other day i missed anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" inch. he thinks my aim is good, i just dont hit the cue ball where i want to. and that is, obviously, a flaw in the stroke.

i am working on this weakness of mine, but it is really funny how hard it is. but the elephant ball and chalk dont lie.

DCP
 
This is the exactly what he drove home on my lesson as well. And the more I think about it, the more I agree with it. When he had me doing the draw shot I missed amost every one right of the pocket. I tend to strike the cueball right of where I want to strike it, so the cueball is deflecting left and I miss the shot on to the right side of the pocket.

I had worked on this before (hitting center cueball) but had given myself too much of a margin of error. To play great pool IMO you MUST be able to hit the cueball where you think you are hitting it. Its amazing just how hard it can be to accomplish.
 
Yep.. it has a lot to do with shotmaking. Like you have observed, the closer to the pocket the less margin for error. The farther away the greater margin. So, on long shots take your time and line up everything. I am surprised Mark didn't give you some centerball stroking drills. Try not to get real analitic about pure centerball hits as the Miz says its just not humanly possible! However, by getting as close to a centerball hit as is posible your shotmaking will improve.
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, i have a question, more of an observation i suppose. here goes:

Is the ability to hit the cue ball where you are aiming the #1 factor that determines whether or not you play consistent, high level pool?

seems like, on shorter shorts, you can miss your "aim point" by 1/8" of an inch, and still be successful. however, on longer shots, if you miss the aim point by 1/16" of an inch you will not make the shot.

Mark Wilson says that is pretty much my #1 weakness, i dont hit the cue ball where i think i am, i dont hit it where i aim. the Elephant Ball pretty much shows me evidence of that. i have noticed it is much harder to hit the aim point on draw shots than it is stun and follow shots.

he mentioned players like Efren have a very, very small deviation regarding the aim point and where they actually strike the cue ball. on some of my shots with Mark the other day i missed anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" inch. he thinks my aim is good, i just dont hit the cue ball where i want to. and that is, obviously, a flaw in the stroke.

i am working on this weakness of mine, but it is really funny how hard it is. but the elephant ball and chalk dont lie.

DCP
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DrCue'sProtege said:
Mark Wilson says that is pretty much my #1 weakness, i dont hit the cue ball where i think i am, i dont hit it where i aim. the Elephant Ball pretty much shows me evidence of that. i have noticed it is much harder to hit the aim point on draw shots than it is stun and follow shots.
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I fully agree, however, in reference to the bold portion, I have just the opposite problem. My long distance draw shots are always on, it's when I have a very long angled shot with running english are the ones that tend to effect me more. I have to focus quite a bit more, which I believe that throws my stroke off.
 
Here are a couple of drills for centerball hit.. please forgive me if you already know about it. Shoot the cueball center hit across the table so that it comes back and strikes your cue tip, I am able to do this 10 out of ten. Now place the cueball on the headspot and shoot it the full length of the table. I get it to come back to the tip four times.. it comes back about 1/2 inch off about 3 times and large misses about three times. I am working on the misses.
 
cut shot said:
Here are a couple of drills for centerball hit.. please forgive me if you already know about it. Shoot the cueball center hit across the table so that it comes back and strikes your cue tip, I am able to do this 10 out of ten. Now place the cueball on the headspot and shoot it the full length of the table. I get it to come back to the tip four times.. it comes back about 1/2 inch off about 3 times and large misses about three times. I am working on the misses.
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This is a great drill. While I was with Mark Wilson he told me a story of when he went to play with the snooker champion (I forget his name but I think it was Davis) and when they were getting ready to play the champion said "let me warm up" and this was all he did for 10 minutes. So if its good enough for someone that plays at that level, its good enough for me :D

One thing I would recommend when doing this is to use an elephant ball, rempe ball, or 10 ball so you know which end is up, that way you can check the chaulk mark and see where you are really hitting it. The way it comes off the rail will tell you left and right, but its important to check and see if you are hitting above or below your aim point as well.

Woody
 
yep, it was Steve Davis aka Romford Slim. my eyes lit up when he said he helped him. anybody thats good enough to have Romford Slim ask him for help is good enough for me.

but i dont think Romford Slim can hold his booze like he used to. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

DCP
 
woody_968 said:
This is a great drill. While I was with Mark Wilson he told me a story of when he went to play with the snooker champion (I forget his name but I think it was Davis) and when they were getting ready to play the champion said "let me warm up" and this was all he did for 10 minutes. So if its good enough for someone that plays at that level, its good enough for me :D

One thing I would recommend when doing this is to use an elephant ball, rempe ball, or 10 ball so you know which end is up, that way you can check the chaulk mark and see where you are really hitting it. The way it comes off the rail will tell you left and right, but its important to check and see if you are hitting above or below your aim point as well.

Woody
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When you guys are doing this drill are you doing it with a full stroke where the cue ball goes at least 4 rails or are you just lagging it back to your tip 1 rail?
 
good point rackin_zack.
the harded you stroke the more likely you are to miss where you are aiming. at least thats the way it is for me.

probably the best thing to do is alter speeds on that exercise. and if you hit that shot with Low (Draw) its extremely difficult.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
good point rackin_zack.
the harded you stroke the more likely you are to miss where you are aiming. at least thats the way it is for me.

probably the best thing to do is alter speeds on that exercise. and if you hit that shot with Low (Draw) its extremely difficult.

DCP
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I'd add what my instructor told me: Start slow and as you increase your speed on this exercise, don't get too bothered if you don't hit your cue tip exactly (or at all, even!) because for 99% of those hard shots, you're probably close enough.

He had me place two balls on the foot and head strings about one diamond on each side of the center spots, and if you keep the fast shots within these, it's usually accurate enough to acheive your goal on most hard shots in a game.

In other words, if you get too critical and too exact, you may lose some confidence, etc. and actually hurt your stroke. We're only human, after all.

It worked for me, it may work for you.

Jeff Livingston
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Is the ability to hit the cue ball where you are aiming the #1 factor that determines whether or not you play consistent, high level pool?

DCP
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DCP,
I believe you are absolutely correct - or at least I have been laboring under this assumption for a little over a year now. If you can't hit the cue ball EXACTLY where you want on the vertical axis then your ball pocketing percentage will never be professional. If you can't hit the cue ball EXACTLY the level you want on the horizontal axis, then you will never be able to play position as the professional's do. I'm not sure of exactly the tolerance of error in inches, but I know that the professional's variation is smaller than my variation - but I'm working hard on lowering it.

When you hit one of those "creep" shots, where the cue ball "creeps" forward a 2 or 3 inches after contact, you must have absolute control of where you are hitting the cue ball on the vertical axis. I've found that a lot of players don't have this shot; but it allows you to succeed at the proposition I described in your "Mark Wilson lesson" thread.
 
chefjeff said:
He had me place two balls on the foot and head strings about one diamond on each side of the center spots, and if you keep the fast shots within these, it's usually accurate enough to acheive your goal on most hard shots in a game.


Jeff Livingston
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Jeff, this is the same margin of error that I was talking about when I said I had given my self too much room. When you first start doing this drill I agree that it helps to give yourself a cusion. But if you dont start to narrow the margin your game will only get so good IMO. Granted for many people just doing it the way you have described may get their game to a point at which they are happy. But if you try to keep improving you will hit a point that you cant get past because of the variance in the way the cueball is struck.

Woody
 
A flying leap

Okay IMO, you're absolutely right that if you don't hit the cueball exactly where you intend, you're not going to get the intended result BUT that doesn't necessarily mean your focus should be on a more dliberate hit on the cueball.

I know this doesn't necessarily make sense and I know I'm kinda playing with words here but I find that MANY players spend way too much time focusing on exactly where they're hitting the cueball or how they're hitting the cueball and forgetting about just hitting the cueball. I've done taught some clinics and gave private lessons and can tell you countlessly how players would look to see if their feet were in the right place or their elbow was properly aligned.

This is all good when you're a beginner learning how to hold a cue and may occasionally be a good idea when you feel your approach may be off but hitting the cueball as intended has more to do with confidence than grip, stance or stroke. I've been around the game enough that I can tell you that most misses I've seen were evident the moment the cueball was struck. Even among the best players in the world, you will see their body-language was different prior to striking the cueball. Now I know this is a sort of chicken and egg argument. Many will argue that confidence comes from proper mechanics and I won't argue that point. You do need to learn mechanics.

But once those mechanics have been learned, the process gets reversed. Muscle memory is achieved and it's important to tap into that muscle memory. The only way to do this is to be confident in what you're doing and allow your subconscious to take over the minute details. In otherwords, don't think about that stuff and it'll just happen. I know that many of you have been to some of the finest instructors in the game and I'm sure you've seen improvement but the next time you happen to take a lesson, ask your instructor this simple question:

The last time you beat a great player, when you took that critical shot, what were you thinking?

I assure you, their thoughts will be far simpler than you would expect. In all liklihood, they won't be able to verbalize their thoughts (because they weren't thinking of anything) or their thoughts will be one short sentence (stay down, make the ball, etc.). I know that part of the learning process is questioning if you're hitting the ball correctly but let me tell you, question you have can also be viewed as doubt. Doubt is a far greater reason as to why you may not be hitting the ball as intended than any other mechanical reason you can possibly think of at this stage in the game.


For a far more comprehensive read, I suggest purchasing the book The Inner Game of Tennis. It's a real eye-opener and most of the players I respect have already read this book.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
I dunno. I've played Nick Varner and honestly, I see nothing short of greatness in all regards. He breaks consistently well, he pockets well, he safes well, he moves well. If it can be done, he can do it. That's what I saw. I saw nothing sloppy or less-than-accurate in the results. I've never played Fisher (though I've seen her play plenty of times) and can tell you first hand, there is a significant difference in the two. Allison Fisher is an incredible player and yes, she's very consistent but I wouldn't necessarily say she's more consistent than Varner, even on a single shot. The game is comprised of single shots. I know it's your opinion and I respect that but I strongly beg to differ and would back Varner all year against her.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
whitewolf said:
No freakin way, yet Nick is a great player. He plays with guts and smarts and with no stroke LOL, but he gets the job done.

Regards, WW
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Sorry, I must have mis-read this, I thought you were saying Varner has no stroke.
 
whitewolf said:
Another example, look at Nick Varner's stroke. Do you think he comes anywhere near as being accurate as Allison or Johnny? No freakin way, yet Nick is a great player. He plays with guts and smarts and with no stroke LOL, but he gets the job done. Then there is Keith.

Pool is a very intriging sport.

Regards, WW
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Maybe you're confusing the shaking with accuracy.

Nick Varner is one of the greatest shotmakers the world has ever known. He is one of the greatest all-around (if not *the* greatest all-around) ever. And, unlike the Filipino players, he hits the cueball where he aims it.

And as much as I respect Allison, she's got nothing on Nick Varner. Your post makes me believe you've never really watched Nick Varner.

Fred
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, i have a question, more of an observation i suppose. here goes:

Is the ability to hit the cue ball where you are aiming the #1 factor that determines whether or not you play consistent, high level pool?
Click to expand...

I suspect it's #2, DCP. In my view, #1 is the ability to align the body, arm and head position in a way that gives you a fighting chance to deliver that perfect stroke. Proper alignment comes first.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Is the ability to hit the cue ball where you are aiming the #1 factor that determines whether or not you play consistent, high level pool?
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it doesn't hurt
 
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