Isn't it unfair that lag winner breaks last rack when hill hill in alternate break?

The lag/flip is for the LAST break, not 1st.

I haven' t read thru all the responses, so perhaps somebody said this already, but...

When you win the lag or flip, you aren't winning the 1st break AND the last break - you are ONLY winning the last break. And, that's *only* if it goes hill-hill.

Breaking the 1st game isn't an advantage, because the opponent breaks the 2nd game. Breaking the 3rd game isn't an advantage, because the opponent breaks the 4th game. Etc., etc. There's only one advantage awarded for winning the lag/flip: the hill-hill break.

If you and your opponent trade break-and-runs, and you lose the match because you lost the coin flip, that's the way the cookie crumbles - time to man up.

If you dog an out, you no longer have the right to complain about the break rotation. You are now looking for an excuse to absolve you of your poor play.
 
gxman said:
I've only seen this happen one time, but I haven't been following pool that long.

I think dazz vs sky woodward in the u.s bar table 8b event. Race to 5, dazz won the lag, and both players BNR the entire match. Hill-hill, dazz BNR the final game and won.
Click to expand...

Yep....sometimes you can do everything right, and still lose. That's life. Guess we all have to live with it.
 
spartan said:
Have seen a number of close matches with alternate break where when it is hill hill and the lag winner breaks final rack and runs out. The other guy does not get a chance. That is like deciding winner by flip of coin.
Shouldn't the rule that lag winner breaks final rack when it is hill hill be changed? Like tennis where winner has to win at least 2 but maybe up to a maximum in order that the match does not take forever. Or like in one tourney I think it is International Challenge of champions where the players lag again for the final rack. Actually lagging is like flip of coin. Maybe better way to decide breaker is position some long balls to pot, some balls to kick or bang and whoever does better will break.. :grin:
Click to expand...

If it's winner breaks, then the guy who got to the hill first got to break on the hill. If he didn't close out the match, then why should he be rewarded? Just moments ago in the APA 8 Ball singles, my opponent was up 4-3 and broke a wide open table. I thought for sure the match was over. By some miracle, he scratched in the side on the first or second shot. I ran out and then broke and ran at hill-hill for the win. I did what I was supposed to do *when* I really needed to. He outplayed me, and he had his chance on the hill. I was lucky to come back to the table, but I only did so because of *his* mistake. If he didn't make that mistake, I lost. Honestly that seems fair to me.

KMRUNOUT
 
I think having to lag is unfair because the end rail cushion could give more rebound in one area and less rebound in another area.

I suggest one long table with fast cloth but no rails. Kinda like a shuffle board. You would roll the object ball down the board and whoever got closest to the end without falling off is the winner.

Coming to a pool hall near you, the 25x4 foot lagging table. This could be bigger than the shake weight! Preorder now.
 
MahnaMahna said:
I think having to lag is unfair because the end rail cushion could give more rebound in one area and less rebound in another area.

I suggest one long table with fast cloth but no rails. Kinda like a shuffle board. You would roll the object ball down the board and whoever got closest to the end without falling off is the winner.

Coming to a pool hall near you, the 25x4 foot lagging table. This could be bigger than the shake weight! Preorder now.
Click to expand...

Shuffleboard with a cue? Lol!
I think some of you are just getting board with pool. I like the game the way it is. Take the summer off.
Things will look better in the fall.
 
Last edited:
It makes perfect sense to me that in some situations the lag will determine who gets to break last game. That's the whole point of using the lag over the coin flip - let skill determine the winner of the last break.
 
The lag is certainly a skill shot, not sure though if the two players came close how much "better" is the winner of it.
There are many hill to hill matches both in winner/alternate break formats, most of them don't result from a "perfect" set (each player runs all of his own brake frames or in winner break format player A runs 10, dry break and then player B runs 10 in a race to 11). So, it really isn't necessary to have a difference of 2 games at the end.
I never liked alternate brake format for reasons that have been discussed in other threads, but I don't see any change needed here, in any case having a box and dry break rules helps in distributing player chances.
 
The lag was a competitive shot that gave the winner the advantage of getting first break. The win by two games in instead of a final set tie break in some tennis majors is something I think should be done away with. Instead put a super tie break of 12 or so in place. It is not fair to make them play until one loses because of exhaustion.
 
No. Lagging is a skill and upon entry to a tourney should be understood of rules. Most amateur matches aren't going to be 8 BnR's (assuming race to 5) so this is fairly moot IMO. If a game doesn't result in a break and run and both players get to the table then they have a chance (sometimes however unlikely) to win that game and then any complaining about not getting to break hill/hill is just whining.

A professional tourney is likely to be a race to 7,9,11 or whatever the case may be and with that many games is unlikely to result in both players BnR 6, 8, or 10 games per person to get hill/hill.
 
The title of this thread is starting to irk me. :mad:

Reminds me of the kind of guy who loses a coin flip.....
....and then he says "Two outta three?"
 
BeiberLvr said:
You didn't really just say that, did you?
Click to expand...
Ok, so I exagerrate it is better than flip of coin but if lag is so critical why not lag best of 3 or best of 5 instead of just 1?


Swighey said:
I think "unfair" is a bit harsh as it is determined by the players (by lagging). Aside from the personal psychological advantage of breaking first or second (depends on the player and opponent - but it's trivial) in an alternate break format, it's the only advantage gained by winning the lag. Having said that, I think it's a bad rule. Win by 2 is better and is in keeping with the nature of alternate break. Or just introduce a rule that alternate break matches cannot be won on break and run - play on until it isn't......would work just fine. In tournaments the rules are always fair if they are the same for both players but they should also be "pure".

Alternate breaks>steal the break (win 2 in row) it goes to winner breaks>match can't be won until the break is stolen (so hill-hill with no stolen break means win by 2)>if it goes to second hill-hill (we gonna run out of time we gotta have a decider) then it's whoever has the break but break and run can't win it.

Pretty simple. Probably looks complicated to some though. I assume the OP means tournaments and not bar boxes, beer and jerks arguing about rules that neither of them understand.
Click to expand...

Yes some good points, Quite a number of sports require win by 2 eg . Tennis, table tennis, badminton so maybe some variation of win by 2 so they will not play forever


hang-the-9 said:
Also it's not a "rule" that the lag winner breaks on hill-hill, it's just how it works out in an odd number of games played going back and forth with alternating break. If the race was to 10, the lag loser would break on the hill hill game.

.
Click to expand...

LOLOL
This takes cake for joker of year. Beats even Travolta mixing up a singer's name and that reporter mixing up Samuel Jackson with Laurence Fishburne ;)
 
spartan said:
Ok, so I exagerrate it is better than flip of coin but if lag is so critical why not lag best of 3 or best of 5 instead of just 1?
Click to expand...

One lag or best of...doesn't matter.

The winner is still breaking the hill-hill game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top