It's Not the same game...

getting low does help with accuracy. but ive noticed that the get low players, not all but many more than the more upright players have back problems when they get older.
that will have you regretting it for sure.

when young you are invincible in your mind.
when old you say why the hell did i do that im in pain now.
 
I don't see it as bad, you talk of unconscious memory, this will loosen your grip and compensate for any problems... in order to forcefully change slightly , have you tried a bowling wrist glove ?


Guy, If you don't see it as bad it is due to my inability to communicate what is happening through the written word. This takes the stick out of line, creates a very imprecise cue ball/tip contact point, just a mess. I thought this was the best way to apply spin and I just had to learn to control it. After months of intense effort all those years ago it lurks to screw up a shot if I get my hand too far back.

Other habits included extreme spread between my bridge and back hand. Unsure about inherent evil in this practice but speed control with modern cloth and cushions is a lot easier if I bring my grip hand forward. I even move the grip hand far forward and do what I call bunting the cue ball to good effect on the short track, seven foot tables. I haven't tried gloves or other mechanical means other than proper practice to break my bad habits.

Butting into the snooker stance conversation, the big deal in my opinion is more anchor points. In pool we often have the bridge as the only fixed anchor point and the grip as a floating anchor point. The snooker stance may add the chin, the chest, up to three fixed and a floating anchor point. If we picture a rod or pipe moving back and forth through a space with only one fixed contact point and another with three contact points along the length of the object and at various places around it, it should be obvious that the range of nonlinear motion is vastly more constrained with more anchor points. Also when we bring all of these contact points to the cue, our bodies have to be in a very consistent position over and over.

Something an explanation of would benefit hugely from diagrams and pictures but in general pool and pool players are much more free form than snooker and snooker players. I practiced for several years on a snooker table with a pool cue. The goal wasn't to restrict my pool game with all of the anchor points of snooker but to make my more free form style more precise. I suppose it would be similar to someone using a batting cage or a tennis ball cannon to groove in their swings. I don't know if this is true. I am uncertain if I ever tried a batting cage and I certainly never tried any formal tennis training.

Snooker stance forces you into a very repeatable position. Pool can be much more free flowing. I think free flowing is more enjoyable, probably much less chance of error with the precisely repeated platform. No question where I fall, I still practice the slipstroke simply because done right it is an art form.

Hu
 
Guy, If you don't see it as bad it is due to my inability to communicate what is happening through the written word. This takes the stick out of line, creates a very imprecise cue ball/tip contact point, just a mess. I thought this was the best way to apply spin and I just had to learn to control it. After months of intense effort all those years ago it lurks to screw up a shot if I get my hand too far back.

Other habits included extreme spread between my bridge and back hand. Unsure about inherent evil in this practice but speed control with modern cloth and cushions is a lot easier if I bring my grip hand forward. I even move the grip hand far forward and do what I call bunting the cue ball to good effect on the short track, seven foot tables. I haven't tried gloves or other mechanical means other than proper practice to break my bad habits.

Butting into the snooker stance conversation, the big deal in my opinion is more anchor points. In pool we often have the bridge as the only fixed anchor point and the grip as a floating anchor point. The snooker stance may add the chin, the chest, up to three fixed and a floating anchor point. If we picture a rod or pipe moving back and forth through a space with only one fixed contact point and another with three contact points along the length of the object and at various places around it, it should be obvious that the range of nonlinear motion is vastly more constrained with more anchor points. Also when we bring all of these contact points to the cue, our bodies have to be in a very consistent position over and over.

Something an explanation of would benefit hugely from diagrams and pictures but in general pool and pool players are much more free form than snooker and snooker players. I practiced for several years on a snooker table with a pool cue. The goal wasn't to restrict my pool game with all of the anchor points of snooker but to make my more free form style more precise. I suppose it would be similar to someone using a batting cage or a tennis ball cannon to groove in their swings. I don't know if this is true. I am uncertain if I ever tried a batting cage and I certainly never tried any formal tennis training.

Snooker stance forces you into a very repeatable position. Pool can be much more free flowing. I think free flowing is more enjoyable, probably much less chance of error with the precisely repeated platform. No question where I fall, I still practice the slipstroke simply because done right it is an art form.

Hu
Hu , do you have the same reaction on your opposite hand shooting ? Otherwise left or right handed playing?
 
Hu , do you have the same reaction on your opposite hand shooting ? Otherwise left or right handed playing?

No, I never practiced that bad habit with the weak hand so it has no old muscle memory to bite me in the rear. This was so early in my pool playing days that someone who could draw a cueball straight back four to six feet was awesome and it was at the beginning of my watch balls zing around the table phase.

Hu
 
No, I never practiced that bad habit with the weak hand so it has no old muscle memory to bite me in the rear. This was so early in my pool playing days that someone who could draw a cueball straight back four to six feet was awesome and it was at the beginning of my watch balls zing around the table phase.

Hu
You only play left or right handed ? Guy
 
I hold the cue farther back w my CF cue. It has a different pivot point so I moved back. I then learned that doing this decreases my elbow drop quite a bit. I now use a back grip on any cue.

My aim and alignment is done while I am standing so I don't really lose anything getting down on the cue. I just make micro adjustments and go.

Finally, at 58 and having played over 35 years I still have no physical limitation for shooting. That may change of course but until it does I am very pleased with my game. It works very well for me. I wish the same for everyone else.
 
It's not the same pool game anymore as once was played, pocket billiards all over this world players are putting their chin on or real close to the cue stick and hand on extreme butt of cue in all games... No more the same physical game ? ... Guy

Same with pretty much every other sport, and the records keep getting broken due to training/learning/technique progress and equipment improvements. The high jumpers of the 40s look nothing like the high jumpers of today, nor does the game of football or basketball look like it did 60 years ago.
 
It's not the same pool game anymore as once was played, pocket billiards all over this world players are putting their chin on or real close to the cue stick and hand on extreme butt of cue in all games... No more the same physical game ? ... Guy
People grip farther back on the cue because they're bridging farther back because of the low deflection shafts and they still want to make contact with the CB at the bottom of the pendulum of their swing.

Jaden
 
getting low does help with accuracy. but ive noticed that the get low players, not all but many more than the more upright players have back problems when they get older.
I'm not that tall (read <short>) so posture and proper back management do work. Running around the table is a thing of the past. One thing that helped was I used to get dizzy bobbing up and down too fast. I would just wait it out but for other reasons I slowed down the whole shooting process and of course the vertigo went away. Now it serves as knowledge of what lies over the limits.
 
People grip farther back on the cue because they're bridging farther back because of the low deflection shafts and they still want to make contact with the CB at the bottom of the pendulum of their swing.

Jaden
I hold the cue long. Seems to have the most upsides that way. One thing about the swing though, I tend to hit the ball slightly past the bottom. The second half of the swing is where the motion finalizes and for me way more stable than textbook - which, I find awkward.
 
getting low does help with accuracy. but ive noticed that the get low players, not all but many more than the more upright players have back problems when they get older.
that will have you regretting it for sure.

when young you are invincible in your mind.
when old you say why the hell did i do that im in pain now.

this is right. low stance is superior, but neck and back problems are commonplace. in snooker, mark selby just got a disc hernia in the neck that may end his career, and he's not the first to have that specific injury.
 
Here is another reason to get the chin down on the cue.... to increase the length between the bridge and the grip. Think about it. The more distance you put between the two, the less tip/cue ball error there is if your stroke gets a little out of line . It works the same way as shortening your bridge length.
 
Here is another reason to get the chin down on the cue.... to increase the length between the bridge and the grip. Think about it. The more distance you put between the two, the less tip/cue ball error there is if your stroke gets a little out of line . It works the same way as shortening your bridge length.
Injuries aside, down on the stick, way back grip, just simplifies the whole process. Aiming is easier*, shooting is easier**, speed control is easier***.

* Every thing is right out in front of you referencing itself. If you're one of those that needs to look at the pocket, TS. When you're down to shoot is too late.

**With a long bridge, you simply put the tip up to the cue ball - on the aim line of course. Now you have learned the impact coordinates. To shoot, pull cue back and stroke the cue linearly forward to where the tip started. The strike is almost a given.

*** The longer the stroke the higher the resolution of thrust you can apply. Like throwing a ball, or horseshoes, or cornhole bean bag...

On injuries, take your time getting in and out of position. Read up on taking care of your back.
 
The tables are now up higher which is probably part of it. Tables like the old gandys which were really low would destroy your back quickly if you always had your chin touching. Probably similar results with the brunswicks which were higher but still relatively low. The diamonds are significantly higher.
Have played on Gandy, Brunswick, Diamond, etc. No issues whatsoever. When I play now it's on an Anniversary from around 63 or 64 I think. My 10' in storage is from 1923, I have no idea what you're talking about that tables were shorter???

I think a bunch of you must be so fat that you're entire life is difficult.
 
Here is another reason to get the chin down on the cue.... to increase the length between the bridge and the grip. Think about it. The more distance you put between the two, the less tip/cue ball error there is if your stroke gets a little out of line . It works the same way as shortening your bridge length.
Wonder if thats why the best players in the last few years have gone to a longer bridge ?
 
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