Ivory ferrule & ivory joint

HollyWood said:
I forgot Willie used potatoes for balls.
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Willie did not use Potatoes for balls, he used DEE'S NUT's!!!!:eek: :D But seriously, do you even know when we stopped using Ivory Pool balls in the USA? I am not speaking of 3-Cushion Billiards Balls either just to be clear. Now just to let you know I am not an Ivory HATER, or Tree Hugger, or for Gun Control but your aurgument is so flawed, I just had to ask the above question.;)

So, please answer it!!!! Who ever you are:)

Have a good night!!!!!
 
I greatly prefer that all my playing cues have ivory ferrules, and some have ivory joints. Some say that ivory creates a soft hit. Others think it's hard. That proves that it's all in the perception. Buck 15 feels strongly that an ivory ferrule causes more deflection. I never knowingly compensate for deflection, only for curve caused by english over a long distance and the resulting throw. Seems to work for me but then again I'm just a B player.

I buy cues made from ivory that was imported prior to the current restrictions. I WOULD shoot an elephant that was part of a responsible conservation management program. I would NOT poach an elephant or hunt in an area where elephants were endangered. The average non-hunting, soft hearted person who loves animals, only thinks of the sad, brutal aspects of hunting they see depicted on TV. They don't realize that it has been hunters and the money that they have generated that have saved most endangered species both in the USA and worldwide. Hunter's access costs, license fees, and taxes on ammunition pay for more conservation than all the animal lovers, treehuggers, and animal rights organizations combined. That's fact folks.

I'm glad that not everyone likes ivory ferrules and joints. Buying preban ivory has raised the price to the point where it's getting too expensive for the average player to use it on their cues. I wouldn't use anything else on a cue that I planned to use very much. Isn't diversity wonderful ? ;) ...Tom
 
I've not shot much with Ivory so really don't know the issues with it's playability. But I'm a firm believer that the natural resources placed on this earth are the best available. Examples would be Bamboo for fishing rods. Teak for boats. Maple for shafts and arrows. Oil for fuel. And possibly Ivory for ferrules and joints. Be you religious or not Mom Nature or God did a pretty good job supplying us with everything we need.

But we were also given brains to help us find alternatives using the same resource package. Even though there’s always trade offs with substitutions, there's also trade offs to standing still. Always remember You Don't Know What You Don't Know.

Killing elephants I'm sure still happens to some extent and these tusks do get into the market. When there's a market, and the payout is high enough, there'll be those willing to satisfy the demand no matter what the risk.

Ivory is beautiful, and I really could care less if someone wants to have it in their cue. I personally have no desire for it, as good as it looks. All I want is the best playing cue I can find and afford no matter what it looks like. I may never get it without ivory but that's a trade off I'm willing to accept. Modern materials seem to have been proven out.
 
I just read the T Wayne article and retract everyyhing I said.

Again I didn't know I didn't know it.

What he said makes more sense than what I said and believed.
 
IMO LBM and other quality composite ferrules are better for faster games like 9 ball where you may break hard with your cue. Ivory doesn't get chalk stained over time like the others do. Breaking a 9 ball rack with an ivory ferrule can be costly and risky business. This is seen in the many ivory butt caps that have a been chipped or cracked in their short lived life in a bar or pool room. Ivory rules in staying white if it is a high quality ivory with tight unnoticeable veining. I would stay away from ivory where the veins are easily seen or large. Tight, bright and white is preferable. Pay the extra to get it. I have had raw ivory tusk, components, cues with butt, joint, ferrules, and inlays all made from ivory. Never been a strong fan of ivory joints except for resale, but the ferrules are sweet hitting and don't blue, providing you take care of them and don't abuse them.
 
Rep points for you!

3kushn said:
I just read the T Wayne article and retract everyyhing I said.

Again I didn't know I didn't know it.

What he said makes more sense than what I said and believed.
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I am impressed that you are open-minded enough to change your opinion after reading the article. Your switch has prompted me to read the article as well. I have never had a cue with ivory ferrules or joint, just inlays, but I will read the article to find out what I don't know about the issues involved.
 
I just read the article and...

BillPorter said:
I am impressed that you are open-minded enough to change your opinion after reading the article. Your switch has prompted me to read the article as well. I have never had a cue with ivory ferrules or joint, just inlays, but I will read the article to find out what I don't know about the issues involved.
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and I found it quite informative. Of course, I am assuming that the facts that Thomas Wayne presents are true. Am I safe in assuming the veracity of Mr. Wayne's statements? While I tend to trust Mr. Wayne's word on this issue, I would have to do the research myself to be completely convinced. I make this last statement because I know that academic researchers have often erred when they trusted "secondary sources" instead of actually going to the primary sources themselves in their investigations.
 
I didn't previously know all that was in that article either, but it was extremely informative. What I did know before was consistent with the added information. It's the best argument to the "don't use ivory you defenseless animal killer/beast" crowd that I've seen yet. As a hunter and concerned conservationist, I've always known that much of the issue was pure emotion, but that really explains it clearly. I'll never hunt elephant, but I've met and talked to people that have, and they loved the species too much to hurt it knowingly...Tom
 
DeaR sir mr.manwon jUST HOME FROM ANOTHER EVENING OF PLAYINGGGGGGG AND A.E. SCHMIDT AND CO IS ONE OF THE OLDEST COMPANIES IN AMERICA TO DISTRIBUTE AND SPECIALIZE IN IVORY BALL TURNING UP UNTIL THE LATE 1970's. Those were zanzabar ivory. Ivory was and always will be the most perfect material to fashion a billiard ball. Lets not forget mammoth Ivory. London and Germany had many ivory ball turners from the 1900 th century that contitinued into the 1960's Dorfelder, Peradon Leopold G. Schroder and Kartzke. What did this guy invent he died in 1990 Mr.Norman Clare? Thomas Padmore & Sons specialized in ball turning In 1833 slate was used for a bed and Thurstan was granted the Royal Warrant of King William IV. In 1845 the first frost proof cushions were used in Windsor Castle. Edwin Jonathan Kentfield was considered the first English Professional Player and billiards champion for 25 yrs.
 
Mr. Porter

What made it make more sense than the knee jerk reaction that I and many others have is like I said, if there's a market, people will find a way to satisfy it. Of course if there's a sufficient benefit to enter the market.

Whenever outside influences intercede in a market, nearly every time there's result is negative to the market plus an unintended consequence of intervening. I once heard a man say If you want to save the whales then make it's ok to eat them. Then there would be an incentive for people to make sure that there are more whales than ever so they can make more $$. Sounds rude and crude but if you think about it makes some sense as in the elephant issue. Why would someone start a business, invest millions, knowing it will come to an end in 10, 20 or 30 years. The laws took all the money out of the Ivory Business, hence the incentive to manage a herd, and if all that's said is true the population has a bigger problem than being culled or even poached. That being starvation and disease. Management sure worked for the Deer population. More deer in Missouri than EVER now from a pop of 225 around 1930 give or take 10 years.

All this is said like you, assuming what we read is actually the truth.
 
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HollyWood said:
DeaR sir mr.manwon jUST HOME FROM ANOTHER EVENING OF PLAYINGGGGGGG AND A.E. SCHMIDT AND CO IS ONE OF THE OLDEST COMPANIES IN AMERICA TO DISTRIBUTE AND SPECIALIZE IN IVORY BALL TURNING UP UNTIL THE LATE 1970's. Those were zanzabar ivory. Ivory was and always will be the most perfect material to fashion a billiard ball. Lets not forget mammoth Ivory. London and Germany had many ivory ball turners from the 1900 th century that contitinued into the 1960's Dorfelder, Peradon Leopold G. Schroder and Kartzke. What did this guy invent he died in 1990 Mr.Norman Clare? Thomas Padmore & Sons specialized in ball turning In 1833 slate was used for a bed and Thurstan was granted the Royal Warrant of King William IV. In 1845 the first frost proof cushions were used in Windsor Castle. Edwin Jonathan Kentfield was considered the first English Professional Player and billiards champion for 25 yrs.
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Great history lesson. Never had so many dates in one paragraph. I still remember AE turning balls.

I know that you weren't commenting on this but at the turn of the century when Ivory was the primary material used, there was no consideration to conservation. The problems of over harvesting were't recognized at that time. Good Conservation practices are usually a win win. In this case, larger elephant populations and more Ivory taken from very old animals on the brink of starvation.
 
HollyWood said:
DeaR sir mr.manwon jUST HOME FROM ANOTHER EVENING OF PLAYINGGGGGGG AND A.E. SCHMIDT AND CO IS ONE OF THE OLDEST COMPANIES IN AMERICA TO DISTRIBUTE AND SPECIALIZE IN IVORY BALL TURNING UP UNTIL THE LATE 1970's. Those were zanzabar ivory. Ivory was and always will be the most perfect material to fashion a billiard ball. Lets not forget mammoth Ivory. London and Germany had many ivory ball turners from the 1900 th century that contitinued into the 1960's Dorfelder, Peradon Leopold G. Schroder and Kartzke. What did this guy invent he died in 1990 Mr.Norman Clare? Thomas Padmore & Sons specialized in ball turning In 1833 slate was used for a bed and Thurstan was granted the Royal Warrant of King William IV. In 1845 the first frost proof cushions were used in Windsor Castle. Edwin Jonathan Kentfield was considered the first English Professional Player and billiards champion for 25 yrs.
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You still have not answer my original question!!! When was Ivory no longer used for pool balls? :confused: As I stated in my original post, I am not interested in BILLIARD BALLS:rolleyes: , I am specifically speaking of POCKET BILLIARD BALLS;) . I am also only concerned with USA not Europe!!:D

Please answer my question, this should be easy it appears you have many other answers.:p

Have a good night, who ever you are!!!!
 
As I understand it, ivory became popular for joints and ferrules before modern day plastics were developed. Ivory was therefore a better choice. Some feel that ivory provides a softer feel to the hit in the joint. I believe this to be true. I also feel ivory creates more problems with deflection. Those people that have played with ivory ferrules for many years have learned to compensate for the deflection. They know their cues whether they realize or not. Ivory is softer than moder plastics. Ivory is not the suggested ferrule for a break cue. It cleans up nicely and looks nice and white as compared to many other materials.
 
I just picked up a custom with an ivory joint and ferrule and it's the first time I've owned a cue that has both. I haven't noticed any difference in deflection, as a matter of fact I think I've adapted to this cue quicker than any other I've shot with. I would say it hits great. As far as downside, I'm from cold country and I've heard ivory can crack easy if you shoot with it when it's cold but I'm always careful to let it come up to room temp before I shoot anyway, and I do that with every cue I own regardless of materials.
 
balls of time

I reply to Manwon here His own person pm was understandable I guess. Is this what you claim to know and think I cannnot answer. Snooker balls as well as pool balls Yhe game of pool invented in 1910 offical in 1912was played with ivory balls. John Roberts played the great Frank Ives on Ivory pool balls. the 1920's Schaefer played with ivory pool balls. Brittner 1840-1909 Rambo 1889-1983 It was difficult to get balls the same grain elastticity and weight. This is why other materials were used pool players wanted balls perfect.. You could buy perfect ivory balls in colors numbers etc for 160.00 a set in 1912 Turned properly, and handengraved which was extra-ordinarily difficult and time consuming. What word do you want to hear america used Celluoid John Wesley Hyatt 1837-1920 invented in1869 nitrocelluoid 1850-1860 People who can afford ivory balls have the unique experience at playing the games at the highest level. Ivory is the perfect material for a ball. other materials are more durable,easier to manufacture, enviromentaly sounder. None has the look feel,sound, resilencyand accuracy of Ivory.
 
bruin70 said:
that's because ivory is very hard.
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Ivory deflects a little more because it is a heavier ferrule, not because it is very hard. If you want an ivory ferrule, but wan't less deflection than you normally get with ivory, a shorter ferrule will reduce the weight, hence reduce the deflection.

Kelly
 
rt. Angle pool table

o by the way for the rest of you a rt. Angle pool table is real! They share the adjoining side rail pocket to the corner pocket . You get your own table to break from. Shots become hookable on the other tables kitchen and bank shots get added rails. The ones I played on were bar box rt.angle tables. The tables become a nightmare because you have to figure out the bank shots from 1 table to the next. You can play banks with the best of them after learning how to play on these tables. It has the difficulty just like banking on a 5-10 snooker. They are made somewhere in Wis. USA
 
HollyWood said:
I reply to Manwon here His own person pm was understandable I guess. Is this what you claim to know and think I cannnot answer. Snooker balls as well as pool balls Yhe game of pool invented in 1910 offical in 1912was played with ivory balls. John Roberts played the great Frank Ives on Ivory pool balls. the 1920's Schaefer played with ivory pool balls. Brittner 1840-1909 Rambo 1889-1983 It was difficult to get balls the same grain elastticity and weight. This is why other materials were used pool players wanted balls perfect.. You could buy perfect ivory balls in colors numbers etc for 160.00 a set in 1912 Turned properly, and handengraved which was extra-ordinarily difficult and time consuming. What word do you want to hear america used Celluoid John Wesley Hyatt 1837-1920 invented in1869 nitrocelluoid 1850-1860 People who can afford ivory balls have the unique experience at playing the games at the highest level. Ivory is the perfect material for a ball. other materials are more durable,easier to manufacture, enviromentaly sounder. None has the look feel,sound, resilencyand accuracy of Ivory.
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Let me be more clear, I am impressed with your knowledge of the Billiard Encyclopedia. I have also read it a few times myself, and I am not looking for information contained within it. So back to the topic, you appear to believe that Ivory Pool Balls were common, and this is where we disagree. Because outside of Snooker and Billiards Ivory Balls were very uncommon, after the 1890's. In fact, please tell me who was still making Ivory balls for POCKET BILLIARDS after the 1890's, also what style balls were they? In addition please name a single pocket billiard championship after 1900 where Ivory Pocket Billiard Balls were used outside of the cue ball. Please do not quote directly from the Billiard Encyclopedia.
 
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