Im of the opinion that ivory has a lively and distinctive hit. Any reason not to use ivory ferrules ?
ivory ferrules
- Thread starter billfishhead
- Start date
fast larry
Banned
billfishhead said:
Massive deflection, 40 years out of date, they crack, split, terribly over priced, any other good things about them you need to know. If you are using them and you are a golfer, you are playing with wood shafts and telling everyone how cool they are.
May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did do it all and you can believe it, or not. If you don’t believe it, C’est La Vie. A prophet is not recognized in his own land. Rack em sausage, Go play fast and loose. In time, it’s all dust in the wind anyway
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stickman
Registered
racer rx said:
I have put on Ivor-X ferrules on my cues and like them very much. I wish I knew what they are made from. They may be made of a common material with a fancy name. Does anybody happen to know? I'd like to buy rods and make my own. You can find them here: http://www.fivestarbilliards.com/Me...de=ivor-x&Category_Code=parts&Product_Count=0
billfishhead said:
No. Ivory is durable, stays clean and is fine for ferrule material. If you are bothered by (or should I say buy into) the technical issues such as end mass
and deflection then the material is not for you.
We have cues that have 80 year old ivory ferrules and they are fine. Most ivory that splits or cracks today is a combination of misuse and faulty assembly methods.
All you need to know about pool is its the indian and not the arrow.
Joe (---sells alot of arrows
classiccues said:
Joe, your right and larry is full of it again.[Larry is NOT a qualified CUEMAKER]. I am qualified.
Ivory will hold up and is not out of date. I build many cues with ivory ferrules, butt plates and joints. If the crack, it's for several reasons.
1, the owner is hitting balls right out of the case durning the winter month's. 2, the ivory had an internal crack and was not seen by the installer, 3, is as you said Joe, misuse. 4, it does deflect a little, but you can adjust easily to it. 5,it's not over priced, I have standing orders for IVORY ferrules on my high-end cues.
On top of this, who is larry to tell anyone about cue construction? He needs to stick to what he does best, TRICKS.
blud
I like the dynamics and feel of ivory ferrules on my shafts made by Phillippi. As to deflection, I think that it's a phenomenon to which any fairly good pool player can adapt. Way too many words have been expended on the dynamics of deflection so it's a topic that I leave alone.
HOW DOES THE D*MN STICK PLAY - is all one needs to be concerned with.
HOW DOES THE D*MN STICK PLAY - is all one needs to be concerned with.
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To me ivory offers the best hit and tranfer. I have played with every ferrule I stock so I know what I'm selling to the customer. Ivory fits my personal needs for playing.
kokopuffs said:
I couldn't agree more about the ivory and the squirt. A good player can glue a tip on a broom handle and learn pretty quickly how to play with it. I have seen this done. Deflection/squirt makes for interesting discussion, but once you aclimate to your stick, your brain has factored this in to your aiming process. If you swap from cue to cue, it may be a factor, but if you shoot with the same one all the time, it's a non factor unless the cue is just horrible (and some are).
fast larry
Banned
On top of this, who is larry to tell anyone about cue construction? He needs to stick to what he does best, TRICKS.
blud.
Tiger woods does not know anything about a golf driver. He has to make drivers for a living in order to know a good driver from a bad driver, that is how blud thinks.
The guy who knows the most about cues is a guy like me. I want performance and I only use a performance cue, a Meucci. I do not use pretty wall hangers made by bozos who cant run 3 friggen balls and would not know a good playing cue from a wal mart mop handle.
If you want to know what works you ask me, not the guy peddleing the pretty wall hanger cue who can't run 3 friggen balls.
The guys who always come back on these threads are the ones selling and pushing the ivory ferrules, because they want you using a $100 40 year out of date relic because they make a killing pushing this trash on you. When I tell you a 50 cent ferrule works better I am killing their action and that is why you see these attacks on me. This thread has come up on AZ now 2 or 3 times and every time Blud calls every one in his rolladex to pile on me to shut up my mouth with these attacks. When I see players being ripped off, I shall always speak out. I have spoken on this issue many times before and I do not have time to fight with the next 11 blud dealers who come on behind this to trash me. Been there, done that twice before, it accomplished nothing. You all know my position on this, you will se no more posts or responses from me on this thread so save your time calling me names because you can't stand me telling players the truth. No time for bozos any more, Hasta La Vista, Babies.
May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did do it all and you can believe it, or not. If you don’t believe it, C’est La Vie. A prophet is not recognized in his own land. Rack em sausage, Go play fast and loose. In time, it’s all dust in the wind anyway.
blud.
Tiger woods does not know anything about a golf driver. He has to make drivers for a living in order to know a good driver from a bad driver, that is how blud thinks.
The guy who knows the most about cues is a guy like me. I want performance and I only use a performance cue, a Meucci. I do not use pretty wall hangers made by bozos who cant run 3 friggen balls and would not know a good playing cue from a wal mart mop handle.
If you want to know what works you ask me, not the guy peddleing the pretty wall hanger cue who can't run 3 friggen balls.
The guys who always come back on these threads are the ones selling and pushing the ivory ferrules, because they want you using a $100 40 year out of date relic because they make a killing pushing this trash on you. When I tell you a 50 cent ferrule works better I am killing their action and that is why you see these attacks on me. This thread has come up on AZ now 2 or 3 times and every time Blud calls every one in his rolladex to pile on me to shut up my mouth with these attacks. When I see players being ripped off, I shall always speak out. I have spoken on this issue many times before and I do not have time to fight with the next 11 blud dealers who come on behind this to trash me. Been there, done that twice before, it accomplished nothing. You all know my position on this, you will se no more posts or responses from me on this thread so save your time calling me names because you can't stand me telling players the truth. No time for bozos any more, Hasta La Vista, Babies.
May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did do it all and you can believe it, or not. If you don’t believe it, C’est La Vie. A prophet is not recognized in his own land. Rack em sausage, Go play fast and loose. In time, it’s all dust in the wind anyway.
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blud said:
Most 'so called' qualified cue makers cannot use the equipment. How many pros are cue makers?
Most cuemakers sell art and illusions. The best advice about the function of a cue comes from those who specialize in adapting to the function. ie. The best players.
If you care less about extra-deflection, it's probably because you play centre ball roll through shots all day.
While deflection can be adapted to, it is certainly a disadvantage.
Ivory, which is basically calcite or calcium carbonate (CaCO3) has a density or SG of around 2.94. Better than brass at >8, but not as good as lighter polycarbonate plastics 1.2-1.5.
Ferrule density has been shown to be a major cause of deflection. Physics theory also supports the tests. The effective Center of Gravity (COG) of the cue in collision moves futher away from the line of cue (if played with off centre) with a denser ferrule.
As Fast Larry has spent many hundreds of hours playing shots with extreme side and power, using many variations of tips, ferrules and cues, he is more qualified than an average cuemaker to give advice on ferrules.
Also, a good student of physics can give insights that befuddle the jewelery cue sellers.
billfishhead said:
Ivory ferrules play great and add value to your cue. Plus they look good. They are prone to hairline splits.
I think the best natural material for ferrules is Buckhorn. Once you go to Buckhorn, with it's firm hit and polished up look, you won't change over to plastic or even ivory. Buckhorn ferrules are cool. I've never had a buckhorn ferrule split on me.
As far as synthetics go, I understand Ivory X and Ivorine III are quite good.
Chris
I always respect every ones opinions and I never respond with attacks. Here is a good test for your knowledge.
What if there was a low deflection shaft, that was a regular shaft and the ferrule was,
Phenalic, ivory, melamine which are very hard materials used in ferrules.
Would you say this is possible.
What if there was a low deflection shaft, that was a regular shaft and the ferrule was,
Phenalic, ivory, melamine which are very hard materials used in ferrules.
Would you say this is possible.
Larry,fast larry said:
I don't think that is what Leonard is saying at all. I do think that to make a statement such as you have made, a player should be of a certain caliber though, therefore having a certain understanding of the game. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, opinion should NOT be stated as fact.
In any event, Leonard was quite a good player years ago, before he decided that repairing cues and making them was more secure than playing...and I am quite sure that he could pick it up again real quick, or for all I know he might play regularly and be in stroke now! In fact Bill Stroud, Jerry McWorter, Bobby Hunter, Andy Gilbert, Dennis Searing, Joe Gold, David Rowell, Billy Webb, Rick Howard, Mike Gulyassy and many of us can play quite good. I know there are more player/cuemakers out there, but I just can't think of them right now. Some of us were at the semi-pro level, and a few were stone cold champions that decided to take another route, and still try to indulge in the love of our life on occasion. Bobby Hunter and Mike Gulyassy both have won "World Championships."
Many of these player/cuemakers would very much like to play many other people who THINK they know what's best in a cue. Fact is, if I want to know something about a subject, I go to the experts for the info I need, not the beginners and wannabees. That being said, I am not closed to learning from ANY opinion expressed, unless it is stated as fact. Your statements I believe fits into that category.
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my cues
Hi Colin,
For your information I am a very qualified cuemaker.
I am very qualified to make statements about cuemaking and building. I can play. Not a world beater, but I can play.[ supported my family for 17 years playing in and areond houston].......
With your referance to Larry sir, your way off base.
Just because he can play, does not mean he's an expert on cuemaking and or ferrules.
Larry could not tie my shoes about cuemaking, and with your thinking Larry's an expert on ferrules and or cuemakeing, you can't either.
I build cues that have heart and guts, first and foremost. The so called art work come last with this qualified cuemaker.
I have made this statement in public and at meetings and on this board,
" HOW CAN YOU BUILD A VIOLIN IF YOU CAN'T PLAY A FIDDLE".
Some of what your saying is true, most so called cuemakers of today, can't make a bridge and or make two balls in a row. They sir, are in it for the money and only the money. They do not have a clue of how to build cues.
Yes, I can play a little. So can buddy hall, C.J. Whiley, Grady Mathews, Buddy Dennis, Jimmy Mataya, Danny DiLiberto, Belinda Compos Callhoun, Mary kenniston, Wade Crane. All of these PRO'S sir, and many many more played with my cues for many many years. They sir, endorced me and my cues.
Do you wonder why? The answer is very simple...........
I do sir, know what I am doing. Your blowing some in the wrong direction as Larry.
By the way Larry, I called no one. No need to.
blud
PS, Colin, if you would like to visit me and my shop here in Texas, come on down. I'll be glad to show you how I build "QUALITY CUES".. Then and only then should you make any sort of statement about me, my cues and ferrules.........
Colin Colenso said:
Hi Colin,
For your information I am a very qualified cuemaker.
I am very qualified to make statements about cuemaking and building. I can play. Not a world beater, but I can play.[ supported my family for 17 years playing in and areond houston].......
With your referance to Larry sir, your way off base.
Just because he can play, does not mean he's an expert on cuemaking and or ferrules.
Larry could not tie my shoes about cuemaking, and with your thinking Larry's an expert on ferrules and or cuemakeing, you can't either.
I build cues that have heart and guts, first and foremost. The so called art work come last with this qualified cuemaker.
I have made this statement in public and at meetings and on this board,
" HOW CAN YOU BUILD A VIOLIN IF YOU CAN'T PLAY A FIDDLE".
Some of what your saying is true, most so called cuemakers of today, can't make a bridge and or make two balls in a row. They sir, are in it for the money and only the money. They do not have a clue of how to build cues.
Yes, I can play a little. So can buddy hall, C.J. Whiley, Grady Mathews, Buddy Dennis, Jimmy Mataya, Danny DiLiberto, Belinda Compos Callhoun, Mary kenniston, Wade Crane. All of these PRO'S sir, and many many more played with my cues for many many years. They sir, endorced me and my cues.
Do you wonder why? The answer is very simple...........
I do sir, know what I am doing. Your blowing some in the wrong direction as Larry.
By the way Larry, I called no one. No need to.
blud
PS, Colin, if you would like to visit me and my shop here in Texas, come on down. I'll be glad to show you how I build "QUALITY CUES".. Then and only then should you make any sort of statement about me, my cues and ferrules.........
I grew up in a family business, we sold auto parts. We weren't mechanics so you might ask, "What did we know about the parts themselves?" We didn't know that much about how to put the parts on the car but we new the parts because if we sold a bad one, we heard about it right away. That was our livelyhood and we weren't about to jeopardize it on preference. Blud, Ted and other cuemakers are in the same situation, i.e., they depend on their work and the products they sell to make a living, they aren't going to jeopardize that living on an unfounded opinion. If they say ivory ferrules are good, I'm totally satisfied with their expertise (not opinion).
Michael Webb said:
I am leaning towards the idea that shafts make very little difference in deflection. From what I've studied on the physics tests done, most of the deflection is determined by the effective density (COG) near the tip end. This would suggest that a flexible shaft should give slightly less deflection.
That said, I feel a very flexible shaft is more likely to miscue on extreme side hits.
A lighter cue has advantages in gaining higher spin:speed ratios, but requires more cue arm speed to create the same cue ball speed as a heavier cue will generate: via the formula m1v1=m2v2.
Hence, heavier cue for breaking is preferable!
For me, any smooth cue, around 18oz, with good tip and low density ferrule is all required to play at the highest levels. I actually played with a cue like this (cost Chinese Yuan 100RMB [US$12]) at the IBC Tokyo US$800K event.
I wen't down 10-11 to a final 64 player, but that wasn't the fault of the cue, just the cueist
I'm going to disagree on some of your points Colin.Colin Colenso said:I am leaning towards the idea that shafts make very little difference in deflection. From what I've studied on the physics tests done, most of the deflection is determined by the effective density (COG) near the tip end. This would suggest that a flexible shaft should give slightly less deflection.
That said, I feel a very flexible shaft is more likely to miscue on extreme side hits.
A lighter cue has advantages in gaining higher spin:speed ratios, but requires more cue arm speed to create the same cue ball speed as a heavier cue will generate: via the formula m1v1=m2v2.
I've tested three of my shafts. All have the same ferrule. The shaft that was the whippier ( flex point being more towards the joint) has more deflection.
The shaft with the smaller tip but the flex point is closer to the tip, shoots with less deflection imo. Bob Jewitt's study supports this as well.
A very flexible shaft will have more deflection b/c it will stay on the ball longer and squirt the cueball. 314 is an exception as it has a bored hole and very light ferrule. Being that light, the front end of the 314 shaft, deflects off the cueball before the cueball itself deflects of the tip. But, not everyone likes that hollow feel of the 314 shafts. A great number of people claim they lose speed control with 314 shafts. But, it does have less deflection.
Billiard players play with very stiff shafts. Small tip but very stiff. If someone is going to be more concerned about deflection, it would be billiard players as they are trying to hit another BALL after contacting 3 or more cushions.
Lighter cues do not gain more spin imo. They will have less. That's basic imo.
A heavier cue will cause the cueball to have more spin. In fact, you don't even have to use your arm to do so. All you do is release the cue and let the cue do the work. Any cue lighter than 19 oz. imo are built for the elbow droppers. Players who like it at 19 oz or heavier know you can let the q do the talking.
I wish shafts had nothing to do with deflection. Picking quality shafts is almost half of cuemaking work these days. Soft maples are tomato stakes or sent overseas.
blud said:
Hi Blud,
You may be a cut above the average cue maker. If I get to the US I'd like to check out your cues, knowledge etc.
My reply may have beed abrasive, but you essentially said that a good player had no right to comment on ferrules; that this expertise was held be cuemakers. That is a logical fallacy.
I should state my point more objectively in future!
A cue maker may learn a lot through feedback or through his own playing experience. A cuemaker may also trumpet rubbish, as can some pros. A pro, or even a hack with brains and observation skills may offer good insights.