Ivory substitute?
- Thread starter cuejunky
- Start date
Plastic or synthetic imo.
If it's bone, he'd be happy to declare it.
If it's bone, he'd be happy to declare it.
I'd say 99% of the time it is a man made material, if it were a bone most cuemakers would just say so, although if it's: Mp ivory, Ivorine, Melamine, Grise, or any of the other Alternatives, we usualy just say, Alternative. I think because a big number of cue buyers don't know what Ivorine, and the others are,
I've had a few occassions were I was talking to a customer on the phone, and in person were I'd say: it has an Ivorine joint, and they've miss heard me and thought I said "Ivory", so it's better to say Ivory substitute, or Alternative. Yeah sorry, but I don't sell cues with ivory joint's for $375, that would be "ivorine", not Ivory. With some makers selling so cheap now I can see were some might think there are ivory jointed cues for less than $500.
I've had a few occassions were I was talking to a customer on the phone, and in person were I'd say: it has an Ivorine joint, and they've miss heard me and thought I said "Ivory", so it's better to say Ivory substitute, or Alternative. Yeah sorry, but I don't sell cues with ivory joint's for $375, that would be "ivorine", not Ivory. With some makers selling so cheap now I can see were some might think there are ivory jointed cues for less than $500.
dave sutton
Banned
shakes said:
ive thought about this. anyone that knows ivory or has worked with ivory can pretty much tell the difference.
dave sutton said:
But what about mammoth ivory? That isn't illegal to import/export, correct?
*Edit: And do we really want to assume that the customs agents this is going to "knows ivory or has worked with ivory"? And that's not an attack, although it may sound a little like one. I apologize in advance, I just don't know how to reword it.
There are one or two around that are actually good enough to be called ivory substitute because they actually look like ivory, Everything else is just, elforyn, MP ivory colored plastic, and so on.
cuejunky said:
There is no such thing. It is either Ivory or it is not. substitute means it is something else. Personally I would not want something that mimicked one thing but is actually something else. It indicates a false value. If it is plastic it is plastic.
I should add, bone can technically could be called ivory although would represent a much lesser value. You can get cow femur bones from pet food companies for like nothing that will render a pile of inlays. In fact, most pet shops sell bones that can be cut up into inlays.
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rhncue said:
Like a lot of things we have read over the years I may have it a little out of context. "Chemically, ivory is similar to bone and antler, and comprises a collagen matrix with a mineral component. Unlike bone, ivory has no blood vessel system, and is therefore more dense". (I got that from a book, I'm not that smart)
It would be a bit of a stretch but not completely a lie. Actually since it is all semantics and perception anyway, I think to say "Genuine Bone inlay" sounds as cool and exotic as saying Ivory, and you can buy it at a pet store. There is a big supplier of bones in Texas called Merrick. You want bones that have been cleaned.
I think that calling something "BONE IVORY" is one of THE most misleading things in our industry. At least by saying you're using a "SUBSTATUTE", you are not calling it IVORY. It's a bone & should be called that...JER
Bone Ivory!
I did not make up the term Bone Ivory. I have seen it used for many years. For instance Elephant Bone has been called "bone ivory" for decades. The dictionary says "any item resembling ivory" as an official definition of "Ivory". By saying Bone Ivory I am letting the customer know it is not elephant ivory. I am also letting them know it is a animal part and not synthetic. Saying that "calling something "BONE IVORY" is one of THE most misleading things in our industry." is implying dishonesty on our part. I think one should get more facts before making such a statement. I have been in the ivory business making cue parts longer than Warther and Cue Components. Only Prather has been making Ivory cue parts for our industry longer than I have as far as I know. And I have heard of "Bone Ivory" for almost as long. Not all bone has the ivory look. Elk Ivories refer to a couple of teeth they have. Hippo ivory refers to the tusks and all teeth. On the other hand Moose Ivory refers to the material from the trunk section of the moose horn. No hard feelings against anyone. Just setting the facts straight.
I did not make up the term Bone Ivory. I have seen it used for many years. For instance Elephant Bone has been called "bone ivory" for decades. The dictionary says "any item resembling ivory" as an official definition of "Ivory". By saying Bone Ivory I am letting the customer know it is not elephant ivory. I am also letting them know it is a animal part and not synthetic. Saying that "calling something "BONE IVORY" is one of THE most misleading things in our industry." is implying dishonesty on our part. I think one should get more facts before making such a statement. I have been in the ivory business making cue parts longer than Warther and Cue Components. Only Prather has been making Ivory cue parts for our industry longer than I have as far as I know. And I have heard of "Bone Ivory" for almost as long. Not all bone has the ivory look. Elk Ivories refer to a couple of teeth they have. Hippo ivory refers to the tusks and all teeth. On the other hand Moose Ivory refers to the material from the trunk section of the moose horn. No hard feelings against anyone. Just setting the facts straight.
cueman said:
Hi Chris; I have had about a dozen customers bring Dale Perry Qs to me & insist that they have bought a Q with Ivory inlays in it. After all his add on EBAY states that it is genuine bone ivory. When I have tryed to explain the difference to them, they say that the add says IVORY, so it must be IVORY or Ebay wouldn't allow him to say that. I don't say that it is a deceptive practice, but it is as I said MISLEADING Or at the very least misunderstood. I really don't think that the gereral public is aware of the difference...JER
dave sutton
Banned
look and smell. when sanded real ivory smells like dentist drilling teeth.
The grain is the easiest way to tell. There is very little grain figure to bone. Elephant Ivory can have almost no grain or have a lot of grain. Hippo Ivory has almost no grain, so it is harder to tell Hippo Ivory from Camel bone. Once in a cue and clear coated over those two would be very hard to tell apart. Walrus Ivory will very often be more yellow than Elephant. Non-Bleached camel bone looks like Walrus and bleached camel bone looks more like Elephant or Hippo Ivory. If you had loose ivory in your hand then you could sand it and smell it and if you have dealt with all the materials extensively you might know the difference by their smell. But the smell is pretty similar between all four. I have had hunters come around when I was slabbing up Elephant tusks and one of the first thing they ask is if I am cutting deer bone or antler?cuejunky said:
I would suggest dealing with a cuemaker that you can trust, which is over 99% of them in my opinion. Many re-sellers of used cues may have been told their cue has Ivory and it not be real. Or they may think it looks like ivory and believes it is. So they may not be trying to be dishonest. I have had dozens of people bring me Meucci cues with their Ivory substitute material and swear it is ivory when it is not. They were usually misinformed after their purchase and not by the cue dealer. I have not seen a lot of people trying to sell something for Ivory that they knew was not real ivory. The only time I have seen someone trying to sell fake Ivory and claiming it was real was on some fake whales teeth at a flea market. When I asked straight up if these were real or man made he admitted they were "probably" man made.cuejunky said: